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At least Rasmus and Lawrie are doing well lately

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07-29-2013, 12:28 AM
  #326
Epictetus
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I'd have Rays at 1 and Cards at 2.
You can probably argue for either side, but I would have the Rays at #1 too. The lack of attendance, payroll limitations, and tougher division are things you cannot overlook. For the Cardinals, they obviously have great postseason success throughout the years.

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07-29-2013, 02:38 AM
  #327
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Not worse thats for sure.
Is it for sure, though?

All but one of Dickey's games have been caught by catchers not named JP, and his ERA has been terrible.

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07-29-2013, 07:36 AM
  #328
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awesome poll

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07-29-2013, 08:14 AM
  #329
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Is it for sure, though?

All but one of Dickey's games have been caught by catchers not named JP, and his ERA has been terrible.
Because he's a knuckleballer and lost mph off his fastball. But the others can be partly blamed on JP. You need a good catcher to call the game and frame pitches

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07-29-2013, 09:01 AM
  #330
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If you guys want to blame how **** the starters are partially, then you must give him partial credit for us having one of the best bullpens in the league.

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07-29-2013, 09:06 AM
  #331
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If you guys want to blame how **** the starters are partially, then you must give him partial credit for us having one of the best bullpens in the league.
Success in the pen comes in large part by how the manager utilizes it.

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07-29-2013, 10:06 AM
  #332
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Well there goes the potential deal for Janssen to Detroit. Just acquired Houston's closer and apparently will not pursue another late inning man.

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07-29-2013, 10:20 AM
  #333
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I would love to somehow work out a deal with the Cardinals where the concept of the deal was Buerhle for Wong would fix our 2B problem and Buerhle is not really a solution for us going forward. Hell, eat a good chunk of that salary to make it happen.

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07-29-2013, 10:26 AM
  #334
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Because he's a knuckleballer and lost mph off his fastball. But the others can be partly blamed on JP. You need a good catcher to call the game and frame pitches
Yes and no. When JP wants a pitch low, and a fastball goes in the middle of the plate and the batter goes yard, idk if thats entirely on his shoulders. Not saying he should be exempt from being criticized, he deserved to be but a lot of times you can see miscommunication ,maybe thats JP, maybe thats the pitcher and pitching coach. Ultimately, who knows but one things for sure, pitching sucks this year thats not in the pen.

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07-29-2013, 10:38 AM
  #335
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I would love to somehow work out a deal with the Cardinals where the concept of the deal was Buerhle for Wong would fix our 2B problem and Buerhle is not really a solution for us going forward. Hell, eat a good chunk of that salary to make it happen.
You probably aren't going to move a bad veteran contract for a legitimate prospect. Best thing to do is package a bad contract for a bad contract. Something like Buerhle for Either/Crawford.

But given the lack of starting pitching for the Jays, trading any pitching is counter-productive. Buerhle is actually a really good #4-5 starter. The problem (if it actually is a problem), is he makes far too much -- he is paid more like a #1-3 starter.

Anyway, the Dodgers are looking for veteran relief help. That could be a potential trading partner. I really, really like Joc Pederson.

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07-29-2013, 10:41 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Yes and no. When JP wants a pitch low, and a fastball goes in the middle of the plate and the batter goes yard, idk if thats entirely on his shoulders. Not saying he should be exempt from being criticized, he deserved to be but a lot of times you can see miscommunication ,maybe thats JP, maybe thats the pitcher and pitching coach. Ultimately, who knows but one things for sure, pitching sucks this year thats not in the pen.
Which is what I mean by partly. You need chemistry but if you're missing location it's on the pitcher, though he's **** poor at framing pitches which hurts a lot. I think him and Buehrle had zero chemistry for awhile but he figured out how to catch Buehrle and work quick. You're seeing the results now.

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07-29-2013, 10:44 AM
  #337
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You probably aren't going to move a bad veteran contract for a legitimate prospect. Best thing to do is package a bad contract for a bad contract. Something like Buerhle for Either/Crawford.

But given the lack of starting pitching for the Jays, trading any pitching is counter-productive. Buerhle is actually a really good #4-5 starter. The problem (if it actually is a problem), is he makes far too much -- he is paid more like a #1-3 starter.

Anyway, the Dodgers are looking for veteran relief help. That could be a potential trading partner. I really, really like Joc Pederson.
You never know what you can do if you eat a good chunk of that salary. Does Mark Buerhle at $10 million a season look as bad the next 2 years as one who makes $18? Also, word is there are barely any sellers this year. That means players will look more attractive since the supply is going to be very scarce.

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07-29-2013, 10:48 AM
  #338
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You never know what you can do if you eat a good chunk of that salary. Does Mark Buerhle at $10 million a season look as bad the next 2 years as one who makes $18? Also, word is there are barely any sellers this year. That means players will look more attractive since the supply is going to be very scarce.
Historically, there haven't been many trades where a team eats a good chunk of a player's salary for a top prospect. In other words, usually if a team is eating a chunk of salary, they do not expect to be getting a great return back.

I cannot see why the Cards want Buerhle anyway. They are more so looking for middle infield help.

On a different note (from MLBTR):

Quote:
The Orioles are targeting Jake Peavy, Justin Morneau, and Michael Young, writes Rosenthal, confirming previous reports. I think it's clear Bundy would not be involved in discussions for those players, even Peavy. I imagine a Bundy trade is unlikely, but if he is dealt, it would involve a big name not currently in the rumor mill much. As Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports noted, Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos has the ability to be a game-changer, on the remote chance he gets an offer enticing enough to move Jose Bautista or Edwin Encarnacion.
Would Bundy be 'enticing enough'?

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07-29-2013, 11:16 AM
  #339
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Yes.

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Old
07-29-2013, 11:17 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
Historically, there haven't been many trades where a team eats a good chunk of a player's salary for a top prospect. In other words, usually if a team is eating a chunk of salary, they do not expect to be getting a great return back.

I cannot see why the Cards want Buerhle anyway. They are more so looking for middle infield help.
Think many have been speculating it since he is from there and the Cards looking for another solid rotation arm. Having said that its still fun to speculate and considering you are right about the bad contract. Assuming we ate some they still have some interesting pieces we could get back.

Greg Garcia is a SS/2B much less highly ranked from their other prospects who is having a down year, but looks to play 2B in the majors and sports a very high OBP and BB total (which we need). Someone like that and a depth arm like Kelly would probably be enough for us to move Buerhle. At least I would anyways (hate that contract)

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07-29-2013, 11:22 AM
  #341
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personally i dont really care about contracts since any team can win with bad ones, Buerhle is a good bottom end starter with great experience, thats the only way i will look it at, if there was a salary cap i would be concerned

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07-29-2013, 11:25 AM
  #342
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I really think now is the time to move Bautista. He trade value is still very high and his contract is pretty good so even teams not in the race this year still could use him.

What do you lose by trading Jose about 20 extra homers he would hit over the replacement player. Say Jose hit 40 homers next guy hits 20 homers but hits .300 and brings same defence. Your losing 20 homers that is it. The rest of the prospects/players brought in to fill other holes make up for that production.

Now I am bias as I don't think Jose is a leader of this team and it shows on the field with his constant battles with the umps. He is not showing this young team how to win and the little sacrifices needed to win like moving up the runners in the bottom of the 8th with none out and runner on 2nd....hey no need to try to hit it the other way when I can strike out trying to hit a 900 foot homer.

AA could really bring in a huge haul if dealing Bautista and even Johnson with him (change of scenery to a contender).

Make that bold move Gillick did with Alomar and set your franchise up with quality players.

Look at the Jays farm team and where are the position players in the system....its pretty bare.


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Old
07-29-2013, 11:33 AM
  #343
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Rasmus just got traded!!

Cory Rasmus that is

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07-29-2013, 11:37 AM
  #344
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Rasmus just got traded!!

Cory Rasmus that is
I'm not going to lie, when I saw a tweet about it I thought it said Colby

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07-29-2013, 11:38 AM
  #345
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Rasmus just got traded!!

Cory Rasmus that is
Wrong Rasmus...nice try.

Cards traded their Cory Rasmus not Colby from the Jays.

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07-29-2013, 11:54 AM
  #346
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Wrong Rasmus...nice try.

Cards traded their Cory Rasmus not Colby from the Jays.
You might want to take a minute looking over the post you responded to.

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07-29-2013, 12:08 PM
  #347
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I really think now is the time to move Bautista. He trade value is still very high and his contract is pretty good so even teams not in the race this year still could use him.

What do you lose by trading Jose about 20 extra homers he would hit over the replacement player. Say Jose hit 40 homers next guy hits 20 homers but hits .300 and brings same defence. Your losing 20 homers that is it. The rest of the prospects/players brought in to fill other holes make up for that production.

Now I am bias as I don't think Jose is a leader of this team and it shows on the field with his constant battles with the umps. He is not showing this young team how to win and the little sacrifices needed to win like moving up the runners in the bottom of the 8th with none out and runner on 2nd....hey no need to try to hit it the other way when I can strike out trying to hit a 900 foot homer.

AA could really bring in a huge haul if dealing Bautista and even Johnson with him (change of scenery to a contender).

Make that bold move Gillick did with Alomar and set your franchise up with quality players.

Look at the Jays farm team and where are the position players in the system....its pretty bare.
I think it's the perfect time to trade him now or during the offseason. He's been slowly declining, has a nagging back injury, isn't a good leader, constantly whining and in two seasons there has been problems within the clubhouse and trading for the right deal would fill much needed holes.

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07-29-2013, 12:16 PM
  #348
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I think it's the perfect time to trade him now or during the offseason. He's been slowly declining, has a nagging back injury, isn't a good leader, constantly whining and in two seasons there has been problems within the clubhouse and trading for the right deal would fill much needed holes.
I would also add that we seem to be in a position where we aren't lacking in "star" power anymore. We need to acquire lots of major league depth, its nice to have 3 guys hit .800+ OPS but then when everyone else is seemingly at or below .700 its cancles out the effect of the good players. We really need to find a way to bring in average players for the bottom of the order as well as bringing in some #3-4 type pitchers to fill out the rotation. Dealing Bautista can accomplish all that in 1 move while still allowing us to retain Encarnacion, Reyes and Rasmus offensively.

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07-29-2013, 12:16 PM
  #349
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Wrong Rasmus...nice try.

Cards traded their Cory Rasmus not Colby from the Jays.
Thank god you're here, Sherlock.

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07-29-2013, 12:19 PM
  #350
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I'm not going to lie, when I saw a tweet about it I thought it said Colby
When I saw it in the baseball section, thought it said Colby. So figured I'd post it here

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