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Cody Franson Trade Talk "Will Heat Up"

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Old
07-27-2013, 12:02 PM
  #401
TOML
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Franson wasn't established at the time.
Cap dump scenario remains.

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Old
07-27-2013, 12:03 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Why are you acting like thats so subjective, its not. And his offensive ability, which isnt elite enough by itself to put him as a top 20 dman, doesnt bypass his defensive lapses constantly.
Except for the fact he is up in the leaderboard in the NHL in all the categories like TOI, Points, Goals, Hits, Blocked Shots.

He is a top 20 d-man in the important aspects of the game, but your opinion.

Yeah, you make sense...

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07-27-2013, 12:05 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by soothsayer View Post
Not even close.
Im waiting for others to list their comparable trades. As far as it goes, no one has a close argument, just speculation.

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07-27-2013, 12:09 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Their value back then(they weren't well knowns when they were traded), to Franson's value now? Yes.
I can't speak for Schenn, I did not follow him much before he was traded, but the other 3 guys all had top pairing ceilings and most felt they were at minimum #3s when they were traded, I have yet to hear any reasonable consensus of fans (Leaf or non-Leaf) say Franson would ever be a top pairing defenseman, and many (even Leaf fans) consider him a #4/5 Offensive defenseman.

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07-27-2013, 12:10 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Im waiting for others to list their comparable trades. As far as it goes, no one has a close argument, just speculation.
You're the one speculating. Your vision is so clouded that you refuse to see realistic comparable scenarios, so you've latched on to unrealistic comparable scenarios that you perceive to be close and you've convinced yourself that that's what Franson must be worth. He's worth a B-level prospect and a 2nd round draft pick.

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07-27-2013, 12:25 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Im waiting for others to list their comparable trades. As far as it goes, no one has a close argument, just speculation.
Liles was traded for a 2nd rounder

Goligoski was traded for a 50 point Neal at the time. Goligoski also had much more value than Frason

Schenn was traded for an under-performing 40 point JVR at the time.

Oduya was traded for a 2nd rounder.


Also, it was Johnson, McClement and the 11th overall pick for Shattenkirk and Stewart. Johnson being a former 1st overall pick who had 33 points his rookie season. Had much more value than Franson ever has or likely ever will.

Franson will not get as much as you seem to think he will.

MAYBE a first from a contending team, but likely a B level prospect and a 2nd or 3rd

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Old
07-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #407
AustonPowers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
Liles was traded for a 2nd rounder

Goligoski was traded for a 50 point Neal at the time. Goligoski also had much more value than Frason

Schenn was traded for an under-performing 40 point JVR at the time.

Oduya was traded for a 2nd rounder.


Also, it was Johnson, McClement and the 11th overall pick for Shattenkirk and Stewart. Johnson being a former 1st overall pick who had 33 points his rookie season. Had much more value than Franson ever has or likely ever will.

Franson will not get as much as you seem to think he will.

MAYBE a first from a contending team, but likely a B level prospect and a 2nd or 3rd
Well that makes the decision easy, you don't trade him....you wait out the contract demands unless something tasty is offered.

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07-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #408
A1LeafNation
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Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
Liles was traded for a 2nd rounder

Goligoski was traded for a 50 point Neal at the time. Goligoski also had much more value than Frason

Schenn was traded for an under-performing 40 point JVR at the time.

Oduya was traded for a 2nd rounder.


Also, it was Johnson, McClement and the 11th overall pick for Shattenkirk and Stewart. Johnson being a former 1st overall pick who had 33 points his rookie season. Had much more value than Franson ever has or likely ever will.

Franson will not get as much as you seem to think he will.

MAYBE a first from a contending team, but likely a B level prospect and a 2nd or 3rd

Liles, how old was he...get the **** outta here.

Oduya...top 8 in scoring...get the **** outta here.

Your comparables are even more ridiculous, than my "ridiculous" comparables.

Im not saying we trade for Neal now, or JVR now. I'll gladly take a 50 point Neal potential, or JVR potential for Franson.

I don't think he is traded regardless.

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07-27-2013, 01:00 PM
  #409
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Franson isn't going anywhere.

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Old
07-27-2013, 01:12 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
Liles was traded for a 2nd rounder

Goligoski was traded for a 50 point Neal at the time. Goligoski also had much more value than Frason

Schenn was traded for an under-performing 40 point JVR at the time.

Oduya was traded for a 2nd rounder.


Also, it was Johnson, McClement and the 11th overall pick for Shattenkirk and Stewart. Johnson being a former 1st overall pick who had 33 points his rookie season. Had much more value than Franson ever has or likely ever will.

Franson will not get as much as you seem to think he will.

MAYBE a first from a contending team, but likely a B level prospect and a 2nd or 3rd
Do people seriously think Franson will get more than that? I don't even think he would get that. I think he would get a second round pick straight up.

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07-27-2013, 01:13 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Riiiight.

Remember when Schenn wasn't good enough to fetch JVR. OOPs.
I don't know if you realize this but I'm a Leafs fan as well. Franson is not better than Schenn and Schenn neither are even close to an Erik Johnson... that's absurd. Erik Johnson is the exact type of defenceman we're missing for Phaneuf.

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07-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Do people seriously think Franson will get more than that? I don't even think he would get that. I think he would get a second round pick straight up.
He's a RFA and if he got what he's asking the compensation would be a 1st and a 3rd. So either someone is willing to give him the money + the assets or he re-signs with TO for cheaper.

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07-27-2013, 01:17 PM
  #413
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How about Malone +3rd for Franson?

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07-27-2013, 01:20 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
He's a RFA and if he got what he's asking the compensation would be a 1st and a 3rd. So either someone is willing to give him the money + the assets or he re-signs with TO for cheaper.
If Toronto won't sign him, or won't trade him, he won't just sit. He'll sign in Europe and Toronto loses him for nothing.

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07-27-2013, 01:24 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Do people seriously think Franson will get more than that? I don't even think he would get that. I think he would get a second round pick straight up.
So he's not worth as much as a rental Douglas Murray? makes sense.

Try looking at the market.

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Old
07-27-2013, 01:25 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
How about Malone +3rd for Franson?
nah Malone's cap hit is too high, and too injury prone.

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Old
07-27-2013, 01:26 PM
  #417
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So he's not worth as much as a rental Douglas Murray? makes sense.

Try looking at the market.
It's not deadline anymore.

Try looking at the free agent market, there are other options, not a whole lot of demand at the moment.

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07-27-2013, 01:29 PM
  #418
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Leafs are in a vulnerable cap situation. There are a number of teams that should consider offer sheet for Kadri or Franson. Fraser going to arb is probably in the range of 1.2-1.6, but team cannot walk away from contract. This would leave approximately 4.8 million for Kadri and Franson. I think that Kadri's camp will be asking for Gagner/Little money, maybe even a little more. Nonis is probably offering similar deal as JVR. So that remaining 4.8 will almost certainly be used to sign Kadri. This will then leave the Leafs with only 22 players with between 0-600k in cap space for a depth signing. I don't see any money left for Franson, let alone Kadri, unless Liles is gone. I think this is an ideal situation for an offer sheet on Kadri or Franson. Both would cause Nonis to make a trade if either are matched.

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07-27-2013, 01:39 PM
  #419
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If Toronto won't sign him, or won't trade him, he won't just sit. He'll sign in Europe and Toronto loses him for nothing.
Why would he sign in Europe? This is PK Subban all over again... a RFA with limited success wants big money too soon. They'll sign a bridge deal because nobody is going to be willing to give up the assets necessary to give him the money he wants and then if he continues the strong play throughout the bridge deal he'll get paid. It's really not complicated and it's really not a rare occurrence.

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07-27-2013, 01:39 PM
  #420
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How about Malone +3rd for Franson?
No the only way Malone makes sense is if salary is retained and Liles goes the other way otherwise we can't sign Kadri

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07-27-2013, 01:42 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
Liles was traded for a 2nd rounder

Goligoski was traded for a 50 point Neal at the time. Goligoski also had much more value than Frason

Schenn was traded for an under-performing 40 point JVR at the time.

Oduya was traded for a 2nd rounder.


Also, it was Johnson, McClement and the 11th overall pick for Shattenkirk and Stewart. Johnson being a former 1st overall pick who had 33 points his rookie season. Had much more value than Franson ever has or likely ever will.

Franson will not get as much as you seem to think he will.

MAYBE a first from a contending team, but likely a B level prospect and a 2nd or 3rd
A late first OR 2nd + 7.5C type prospect seems like a reasonable return.

JVR-Neal were both very well regarded young forwards with high end potential at the time of there trades.

Oduya and Liles are the best comparables skill wise but both also had NTCs. Oduya was a pending UFA well Liles had a year left on his deal.

There is no great comparison to Franson but he should get more then Liles-Oduya but also less then Goli-Schenn.

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07-27-2013, 01:42 PM
  #422
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Leafs are in a vulnerable cap situation. There are a number of teams that should consider offer sheet for Kadri or Franson. Fraser going to arb is probably in the range of 1.2-1.6, but team cannot walk away from contract. This would leave approximately 4.8 million for Kadri and Franson. I think that Kadri's camp will be asking for Gagner/Little money, maybe even a little more. Nonis is probably offering similar deal as JVR. So that remaining 4.8 will almost certainly be used to sign Kadri. This will then leave the Leafs with only 22 players with between 0-600k in cap space for a depth signing. I don't see any money left for Franson, let alone Kadri, unless Liles is gone. I think this is an ideal situation for an offer sheet on Kadri or Franson. Both would cause Nonis to make a trade if either are matched.
You think Kadri gets 4.8? absolutely not

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Old
07-27-2013, 01:48 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Leafs are in a vulnerable cap situation. There are a number of teams that should consider offer sheet for Kadri or Franson. Fraser going to arb is probably in the range of 1.2-1.6, but team cannot walk away from contract. This would leave approximately 4.8 million for Kadri and Franson. I think that Kadri's camp will be asking for Gagner/Little money, maybe even a little more. Nonis is probably offering similar deal as JVR. So that remaining 4.8 will almost certainly be used to sign Kadri. This will then leave the Leafs with only 22 players with between 0-600k in cap space for a depth signing. I don't see any money left for Franson, let alone Kadri, unless Liles is gone. I think this is an ideal situation for an offer sheet on Kadri or Franson. Both would cause Nonis to make a trade if either are matched.
We cant walk away from Fraser but we can trade him. Teams are always looking for defense and toughness it wouldn't be that hard.

There are no reports of any kind of trouble in the relationship between Kadri and the team. It isnt just as simple as giving him an offer sheet you have to get him to sign it.

With Franson if a team wants to give him an offer sheet go right ahead. For it to be high enough that the Leafs wouldn't match it would cost a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Pretty close to the return value most Leaf fans are asking for and people are telling us we cant/wont get.

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07-27-2013, 02:07 PM
  #424
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Why would he sign in Europe? This is PK Subban all over again... a RFA with limited success wants big money too soon. They'll sign a bridge deal because nobody is going to be willing to give up the assets necessary to give him the money he wants and then if he continues the strong play throughout the bridge deal he'll get paid. It's really not complicated and it's really not a rare occurrence.
He'll sign in Europe if Toronto tries to play hardball and sit him because they don't like his contract demands.

No team is going to give Toronto a significant package for Franson given the current circumstances.

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07-27-2013, 02:07 PM
  #425
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This usually happens. "RFA so-and-so trade talk is heating up" just before the guy signs a decent contract.

Have a feeling he is signed very soon and wont even go into arbitration.

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