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Cole Trade Revisted/ Briere signing

View Poll Results: Cole Vs Briere
Cole 52 27.08%
Briere 140 72.92%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-27-2013, 01:21 AM
  #51
habs03
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Briere is 5"8... we got a third round pick in the Cole Ryder trade..
Briere is listed at 5'10 every, while it might be generous, it could be said about a ton of other players around the league....

The 3rd round pick is not really important in regards to what I was saying...

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07-27-2013, 01:58 AM
  #52
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Cole was pathetic last season for both the Habs and Dallas. He showed garbage attitude and little intensity on the ice. There were VALID rumblings of him actually being in the "anti-Subban" group, and truth be said, he never was up to par in the playoffs.

Briere, for all what people say about his poor defensive play, about his size, about everything, still has more puck skills than any of our forwards excluding Galchenyuk and maybe Eller. He's a tremendous PP performer too, which historically can't be said about Cole. I'm sure if Markov gets injured you guys will be happy to have a guy like Briere who knows what to do as a forward on the powerplay (which can't be said about many of our forwards, really).

And for all the concerns people bring about Briere not performing last season, tell me something; how crucial were Subban and Markov to the offensive success of some of our forwards last season? Well just keep in mind that in Philly, Pronger was out, and nobody besides an aging Timonen was capable of playing the QB role, both at ES or on the PP. This might have a huge effect on his production too.

People overstate his poor defensive play and size. While not huge, he's still only an inch smaller than Plekanec. As for his defensive play, well we're not paying him to be a great defensive player. Do you guys think Recchi, Ryder, Seguin and Horton were great defensive guys in the 2011 Boston playoffs run? Every team in this league counts on certain player who aren't defensive specialist. I swear two-way play and speed are the two biggest obsessions on the Habs board. For all the time you guys spend whining about the "moar bigger" group, you're actually out-doing them on that aspect.

Short answer is; I take Briere on this team, and this actually was a GOOD trade. Bergevin never signed Cole to begin with. It's safe to play he had valid reasons to be concerned for trading him that quickly.

For all what he's not, Briere is a speedy, skilled offensive player who can play both RW and C (albeit better at C), and who's an ace on the powerplay, who could only generate attacks from the back end last season. His playoffs history is a plus, and if used on the wing, you know you can still count on three lines with offensively skilled player whenever a C is injured, which is something very few teams in this league can say.

Is he THE missing piece? No. Definitely not. But people are way too rough on the signing of a guy who actually was the best "purely skilled" player of this UFA group excluding VL, and who adds interesting things to this roster.

Look elsewhere in the league, and ask Leafs fans if they enjoy the "nice fit" their 5.25M 30 points scorer is going to be for them.

Ask the Devils what they think of giving that money and terms to a guy who scored three goals last season (I love Clowe, but this is a ridiculous contract).

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07-27-2013, 02:07 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Cole was pathetic last season for both the Habs and Dallas. He showed garbage attitude and little intensity on the ice. There were VALID rumblings of him actually being in the "anti-Subban" group, and truth be said, he never was up to par in the playoffs.

Briere, for all what people say about his poor defensive play, about his size, about everything, still has more puck skills than any of our forwards excluding Galchenyuk and maybe Eller. He's a tremendous PP performer too, which historically can't be said about Cole. I'm sure if Markov gets injured you guys will be happy to have a guy like Briere who knows what to do as a forward on the powerplay (which can't be said about many of our forwards, really).

And for all the concerns people bring about Briere not performing last season, tell me something; how crucial were Subban and Markov to the offensive success of some of our forwards last season? Well just keep in mind that in Philly, Pronger was out, and nobody besides an aging Timonen was capable of playing the QB role, both at ES or on the PP. This might have a huge effect on his production too.

People overstate his poor defensive play and size. While not huge, he's still only an inch smaller than Plekanec. As for his defensive play, well we're not paying him to be a great defensive player. Do you guys think Recchi, Ryder, Seguin and Horton were great defensive guys in the 2011 Boston playoffs run? Every team in this league counts on certain player who aren't defensive specialist. I swear two-way play and speed are the two biggest obsessions on the Habs board. For all the time you guys spend whining about the "moar bigger" group, you're actually out-doing them on that aspect.

Short answer is; I take Briere on this team, and this actually was a GOOD trade. Bergevin never signed Cole to begin with. It's safe to play he had valid reasons to be concerned for trading him that quickly.

For all what he's not, Briere is a speedy, skilled offensive player who can play both RW and C (albeit better at C), and who's an ace on the powerplay, who could only generate attacks from the back end last season. His playoffs history is a plus, and if used on the wing, you know you can still count on three lines with offensively skilled player whenever a C is injured, which is something very few teams in this league can say.

Is he THE missing piece? No. Definitely not. But people are way too rough on the signing of a guy who actually was the best "purely skilled" player of this UFA group excluding VL, and who adds interesting things to this roster.

Look elsewhere in the league, and ask Leafs fans if they enjoy the "nice fit" their 5.25M 30 points scorer is going to be for them.

Ask the Devils what they think of giving that money and terms to a guy who scored three goals last season (I love Clowe, but this is a ridiculous contract).
Fair post, but a few counter argument, Philly had the 3 or 4th best PP in the league last year, and Briere could only get 3 PPG even though he had the 5th most amount of ice team for forwards, and 6th overall.

Also while only 1 inch shorter than Plekanec, he is also 20 ibs lighter, and being almost as big as Plekanec really says more about the size of the Habs overall than it does about Briere.

But even with that being said, Briere contract isn't really that bad, or a big risk, the issue is his fit on the team, I mean maybe if DD wasn't re-signed for 4 more years, Gionta wasn't here, it might have made more sense to bring him in.


Last edited by habs03: 07-27-2013 at 02:33 AM.
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07-27-2013, 02:35 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Clearly Briere is a stop gap solution to fill a top 6 scoring forward position.

Why don't you people understand that a long term solution isn't currently available/apparent. Clearly MB is thinking long term as he didn't get caught committing to a long term deal with Briere.

It is getting so tiresome listening to people whine about not getting Chris Stewart or Bobb Ryan etc.

The price is too high and would jeopardize the long term plan......it is that simple.

Just because you can't see the plan doesn't mean that isn't there.
Exactly. The Briere term (sounds like a film) is fine. And it shows exactly what Bergy is doing: Compete short term, Contend in 2 years.

I enjoy and respect the guys on this board, but I wish more guys here would realize that Bergy has TWO mandates: Compete now, AND build a contender. Briere was perfect for the compete now part of the equation. He also helps for the second part:

DB is french. He will wear the jersey with pride, and he will bring a lot of lessons and leadership to guys like Gally and Chuckie.

I don't see a problem here. And I laugh at the Laffs. What, 5 years for a third liner who will be washed up in two years, and be no help at all IF they contend in 3 years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post

Look elsewhere in the league, and ask Leafs fans if they enjoy the "nice fit" their 5.25M 30 points scorer is going to be for them.

Ask the Devils what they think of giving that money and terms to a guy who scored three goals last season (I love Clowe, but this is a ridiculous contract).
Exactement mon amis.

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07-27-2013, 02:47 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Exactly. The Briere term (sounds like a film) is fine. And it shows exactly what Bergy is doing: Compete short term, Contend in 2 years.

I enjoy and respect the guys on this board, but I wish more guys here would realize that Bergy has TWO mandates: Compete now, AND build a contender. Briere was perfect for the compete now part of the equation. He also helps for the second part:

DB is french. He will wear the jersey with pride, and he will bring a lot of lessons and leadership to guys like Gally and Chuckie.

I don't see a problem here. And I laugh at the Laffs. What, 5 years for a third liner who will be washed up in two years, and be no help at all IF they contend in 3 years?



Exactement mon amis.
If the point is to contend in 2 years, why not just tank, I mean Bergevin doesn't want to give up the assets to acquire key players in trades, also doesn't believe in using free agency, wouldn't it be better to just do a full rebuild, I mean your going to have a hard time building a contending drafting 25th in every year. Heck if your using Briere as a stop gap, wouldn't it be wise to NOT give him a NMC so by the traded deadline of the 2nd year, if you aren't really you want to be, you could more him and gets some assets for that "contending team".

Also in regards to Breire wearing the jersey with pride, where was the pride 6 years ago, pride my ass.

You bring up guys like Clowe and Clarkson as examples, but why not a guy like Jagr, or Morrow who is still a UFA. Both guys who could have been had the same amount or less than Briere, and would have been a better fit for the team.

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07-27-2013, 04:20 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
If the point is to contend in 2 years, why not just tank
Because this is the real world.

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07-27-2013, 05:16 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Because this is the real world.
Sure, just like when the Leafs got an asset in Franson, when they acquired a bad contract in Lombardi. Heck if Bergevin wasn't really looking to contend for a few years, why didnt he just trade for Briere, and asked for an assets with him, his cap hit would more, but we have the cap space for it, actually gets paid less in real dollars, would actually save in real money. Philly would have done it so they could use their 2nd compliance buy out on Meszaros.

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07-27-2013, 07:49 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
If the point is to contend in 2 years, why not just tank, I mean Bergevin doesn't want to give up the assets to acquire key players in trades, also doesn't believe in using free agency, wouldn't it be better to just do a full rebuild, I mean your going to have a hard time building a contending drafting 25th in every year. Heck if your using Briere as a stop gap, wouldn't it be wise to NOT give him a NMC so by the traded deadline of the 2nd year, if you aren't really you want to be, you could more him and gets some assets for that "contending team".

Also in regards to Breire wearing the jersey with pride, where was the pride 6 years ago, pride my ass.

You bring up guys like Clowe and Clarkson as examples, but why not a guy like Jagr, or Morrow who is still a UFA. Both guys who could have been had the same amount or less than Briere, and would have been a better fit for the team.
Because it's an insulting thing to do to the fans. It hurts your franchise's image. It damages the esprit the corps of your team. Who wants to become the Oilers of the East?

Also, you can't swap from "tanker" to "contender" on a dime. You need to build up toward it, and Bergevin is doing just that. He added a few key pieces last summer, and it paid off this year. He's keeping improving us in the draft, and in the next 2 years he might try to get the "final piece" through a trade or free agent.

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07-27-2013, 08:43 AM
  #59
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I guess nobody cares about the third option of signing Ryder for 3.5m

The second guessers aren't doing a very good job .
Ryder's complete no-show down the stretch and in the playoffs made that a non-option.

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07-27-2013, 08:57 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
If the point is to contend in 2 years, why not just tank
The team finished 2nd in the conference and you think they should tank instead of adding an important element? This logic makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

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07-27-2013, 09:59 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
If the point is to contend in 2 years, why not just tank.
This kind of comment always makes me shake my head. It reeks of video game or fantasy league and somehow gets looked at as a valid strategy in the real world.

There are so many reasons that this is not an option for the real-world Habs, some of which I see have already been posted.

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07-27-2013, 11:33 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Fair post, but a few counter argument, Philly had the 3 or 4th best PP in the league last year, and Briere could only get 3 PPG even though he had the 5th most amount of ice team for forwards, and 6th overall.

Also while only 1 inch shorter than Plekanec, he is also 20 ibs lighter, and being almost as big as Plekanec really says more about the size of the Habs overall than it does about Briere.

But even with that being said, Briere contract isn't really that bad, or a big risk, the issue is his fit on the team, I mean maybe if DD wasn't re-signed for 4 more years, Gionta wasn't here, it might have made more sense to bring him in.
The thing is; neither Gionta or Desharnais have half of the hands/talent Briere has. And to be honest, while we can definitely use a big bruising forward with a scoring touch, we could also definitely use a guy of Briere's calibre.

Briere being 5th in ice time among forwards of his team on the PP in fact says he was probably mostly used on the second wave, where nobody actually clicked to begin with.

A lot of people also forget to mention how a style of play based on speed and counter-attack like the Habs play might fit Briere's style of play better than the Flyers' dump and chase.

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07-27-2013, 11:44 AM
  #63
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I will withhold judgement until I see Briere play at least half a season with the habs.

Cole disinterest in the game and the team at the beginning of last year was pathetic, especially considering how good he was the previous season.

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07-27-2013, 12:01 PM
  #64
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LOL "Master stroke"

Could your expectations/standards get any lower? Is Bergevin tying his shoes in the morning a "game changer" now?
If Bergevin's shoelace-tying scored 27 points to Cole's seven points, saved us $1M plus another two years at $4.5M, and got us a draft pick, then yes -- it would be brilliant.

This was a smart move that worked out perfectly. Everybody sees this but you.

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07-27-2013, 12:19 PM
  #65
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Who cares, Cole sucks and didn't like Subban. So he needed to go ASAP.

Briere prob won't do anything but we will have to wait and see.

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07-27-2013, 12:27 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Clearly Briere is a stop gap solution to fill a top 6 scoring forward position.

Why don't you people understand that a long term solution isn't currently available/apparent. Clearly MB is thinking long term as he didn't get caught committing to a long term deal with Briere.

It is getting so tiresome listening to people whine about not getting Chris Stewart or Bobb Ryan etc.

The price is too high and would jeopardize the long term plan......it is that simple.

Just because you can't see the plan doesn't mean that isn't there.
We wouldn't have needed a stop gap in Briere if we had of just kept cole, he was the same thing, but adds a dimension we don't have. His play was bad last year, Briere's wasn't much better and is completely redundant.

I'm glad your tired of hearing about Bobby Ryan/Chris Stewart, it's probably a good thing I've never mentioned either one in a single post. If you don't like posters with opposing view points than you, you're allowed to stay clear. I don't remember asking for your disgruntled opinion of other posters. Maybe next time, keep it to yourself, because quite frankly, I don't care what you're tired of.

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07-27-2013, 12:30 PM
  #67
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I'm glad Cole is gone. Seemed like he had a **** poor attitude last season coming out of the lockout. It was very clear he did not want to be here anymore.

In retrospect, I would do that deal 10/10 times.

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07-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Bergevin: *Trades Cole
Bergevin: *Signs Briere
Bergevin: "It's hard to get big physical forwards!"

Hopefully this isn't the beginning of many stupid moves but it is starting out ugly.
Cole is done. Did you watch him play last year? Better have a smaller guys that still gives a damn.

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07-27-2013, 12:44 PM
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The team finished 2nd in the conference and you think they should tank instead of adding an important element? This logic makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.
As replying to JohnnyB11

If you read my whole post, it was a question to someone who implied that Bergevin really isn't interested in contending for the next few years, and is using Breire as a stop gap.

I mean you finish 2nd in the East, and if even if your looking down the road, I think the core of the team is going to be the same now as it will be in a few years, with Subban, Gally's, Price and Patches, and instead of trying to add elements that were missing, specially in the playoffs(size), he made it worse. But if he looking to build, why not try to acquire more picks, by trading off, older players on the team, Gointa, Markov, for assets, because just like last year, doing well in the regular season, and getting eaten alive in the playoffs, makes it harder to "build through the draft" since you'll be drafting in the 20's.


Last edited by habs03: 07-27-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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07-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #70
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I don't like the Briere signing but to compare the two situations is flawed. Whether it was the lockout or something else, there was definitely something wrong with Cole as he wasn't the player he was the previous year.

People can sit here and blame Bergevin all they want but to say that Cole's money was used to sign Briere is subjective, at best.

Here's another thread to start: Gomez and Kaberle buyouts / Briere signing.

See what I mean?

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07-27-2013, 12:49 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
Cole is done. Did you watch him play last year? Better have a smaller guys that still gives a damn.
Apparently you didn't watch him or Briere, if he's done, what does that make Briere? Toast?

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07-27-2013, 01:02 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I don't like the Briere signing but to compare the two situations is flawed. Whether it was the lockout or something else, there was definitely something wrong with Cole as he wasn't the player he was the previous year.

People can sit here and blame Bergevin all they want but to say that Cole's money was used to sign Briere is subjective, at best.

Here's another thread to start: Gomez and Kaberle buyouts / Briere signing.

See what I mean?
Not sure why you think the comparison is flawed. Briere is replacing exactly position RW that was freed up by trading Cole/letting Ryder go...

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07-27-2013, 01:03 PM
  #73
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We wouldn't have needed a stop gap in Briere if we had of just kept cole, he was the same thing, but adds a dimension we don't have. His play was bad last year, Briere's wasn't much better and is completely redundant.

I'm glad your tired of hearing about Bobby Ryan/Chris Stewart, it's probably a good thing I've never mentioned either one in a single post. If you don't like posters with opposing view points than you, you're allowed to stay clear. I don't remember asking for your disgruntled opinion of other posters. Maybe next time, keep it to yourself, because quite frankly, I don't care what you're tired of.
You didn't need to mention Stewart/Ryan as many others have......it was clearly implied as they are the only ones who fit your criteria of preferable options to Briere.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
This kind of comment always makes me shake my head. It reeks of video game or fantasy league and somehow gets looked at as a valid strategy in the real world.

There are so many reasons that this is not an option for the real-world Habs, some of which I see have already been posted.
Amen to that bother!

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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
why is he signing an 35 old Briere, specially since he gave him a NMC close, meaning he can't even trade him for assets near the end of the 2nd year.
Where do you possibly get that MB can't move Briere due to a NMC???

If things aren't working out then Briere is free to waive it and command complete control of where he goes. It is simply a case of leverage and control of his immediate future. Trust me.....you don't want to stand firm on a NMC in Montreal as the remainder of your stay will be something less than pleasant.

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07-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You didn't need to mention Stewart/Ryan as many others have......it was clearly implied as they are the only ones who fit your criteria of preferable options to Briere.



Amen to that bother!



Where do you possibly get that MB can't move Briere due to a NMC???

If things aren't working out then Briere is free to waive it and command complete control of where he goes. It is simply a case of leverage and control of his immediate future. Trust me.....you don't want to stand firm on a NMC in Montreal as the remainder of your stay will be something less than pleasant.
Because he has done it in the past, Philly was in the bottom of the standing all year, and where looking to trade Briere, but he refused to to waiver it....

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07-27-2013, 01:33 PM
  #75
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Ryder did more for the Habs during the season. If anyone sees it as Briere for Cole, I see it as Cole for Briere plus $500K plus a third round pick. Briere will be happier in Montréal than Cole was, so improved morale is one of those intangibles that might be added to the return for Cole. In short, Cole was a one-season wonder whose value evaporated like a room freshener aerosol and left a stink.

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