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Cole Trade Revisted/ Briere signing

View Poll Results: Cole Vs Briere
Cole 52 27.08%
Briere 140 72.92%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-02-2013, 08:06 AM
  #151
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I don't think you can't subtract from the bottom up in this case, your not going to be bring in a guy like Morrow to play on the 4th line, he is a top 9 forward, and we have 9 of them already. With trading Cole, and not re-signing Ryder, we had 1 top 9 spot open and we filled it with Briere, so I really don't see how you can acquire a Morrow type player and not move one of the top9 forwards I named in the earlier post.
They won't all be healthy. I'd sign Morrow today if I could. Whether he or somebody else drops out of some nebulously defined "top 9", or we roll 4 solid balanced lines, no issues here.

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08-02-2013, 08:48 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Again, mistaking opinion with facts. But that's okay, I wasn't expecting anything different.
You're really going to argue that making your stars miss the early part of the year because you're dead set on them signing an under value contract is actually good?
Or you really want to argue that PK is worth as little as Michael freaking Del Zotto? Or Spurgeon? Really Habsterix..
Or that the DD signing NEEDED to happen at that time??

I never claimed they were facts, I said there's nothing to really argue over about those things because it's so obvious. But I guess when you have blind faith you will find excuses for the most obvious of mistakes.

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08-02-2013, 08:54 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
They won't all be healthy. I'd sign Morrow today if I could. Whether he or somebody else drops out of some nebulously defined "top 9", or we roll 4 solid balanced lines, no issues here.
Having a Prust-White-Morrow 4th line could be interesting, but I doubt you'll lure Morrow here by telling him he'll play on the 4th, nor would it be smart to pay a guy that much for bottom line duties.

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08-02-2013, 08:59 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Having a Prust-White-Morrow 4th line could be interesting, but I doubt you'll lure Morrow here by telling him he'll play on the 4th, nor would it be smart to pay a guy that much for bottom line duties.
Wouldn't Cleary be a better choice if we want someone to play with White and Prust on the 4th line?

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08-02-2013, 09:29 AM
  #155
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Wouldn't Cleary be a better choice if we want someone to play with White and Prust on the 4th line?
I'd say yes, but it still depends on the price.

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08-02-2013, 10:07 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Having a Prust-White-Morrow 4th line could be interesting, but I doubt you'll lure Morrow here by telling him he'll play on the 4th, nor would it be smart to pay a guy that much for bottom line duties.
I wouldn't tell him that. I'd tell him we'd need to mix things up and both he and Prust would ideally play on higher lines. And things would work themselves out based on how everybody played and the chemistry that emerged, etc. But he could still look at the numbers and figure it was dicey, if he has self-doubt. Maybe that's what ultimately happened. Who knows.

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08-02-2013, 11:23 AM
  #157
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Sorry guys but no way your getting a guy like Morrow to sign here without moving someone and him and his agent clearly see there is no room in the Habs top 9.

I mean maybe you might get cleary to sign and possibly play on the 4th line, but that doesn't help the weakness of having size and grit in the top 9, also one of the things Bergevin has improved is the 4th line,, I mean having Moen, Prust, White, Parros are your 10-13th forth is pretty good IMO.

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08-02-2013, 12:35 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Sorry guys but no way your getting a guy like Morrow to sign here without moving someone and him and his agent clearly see there is no room in the Habs top 9.
It wasn't clear enough to stop them from coming to town and chatting with Bergevin, though, right?

And I'd be adamant that there is very much room for him in the top-9. As long as he plays well enough to earn the spot. We need some grit and physicality on all of our lines. I'd be signing him with every intention of playing him in the top-9. He'd have to play himself out of it.

I hereby offer him $6M/2yrs of Mr. Molson's finest money to take up the challenge for us.

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08-02-2013, 01:21 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
It wasn't clear enough to stop them from coming to town and chatting with Bergevin, though, right?

And I'd be adamant that there is very much room for him in the top-9. As long as he plays well enough to earn the spot. We need some grit and physicality on all of our lines. I'd be signing him with every intention of playing him in the top-9. He'd have to play himself out of it.

I hereby offer him $6M/2yrs of Mr. Molson's finest money to take up the challenge for us.
Know I kno what you meant by per other thread lol..

Again after maybe Bergevin before signing a guy like Morrow, which IMO HAS to happen to sign morrow.

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08-02-2013, 01:26 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Sorry guys but no way your getting a guy like Morrow to sign here without moving someone and him and his agent clearly see there is no room in the Habs top 9.

I mean maybe you might get cleary to sign and possibly play on the 4th line, but that doesn't help the weakness of having size and grit in the top 9, also one of the things Bergevin has improved is the 4th line,, I mean having Moen, Prust, White, Parros are your 10-13th forth is pretty good IMO.
I also think you have to move someone to make use of Morrow. Still, I don't think it's impossible to sign him then make the move. Why move then hope for the sign? So, it's normal. We'll see but I wouldn't want morrow on 4th anyway.


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08-02-2013, 01:34 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I also thing you have to move someone to make use of Morrow. Still, I don't think it's impossible to sign him then make the move. Why move then hope for the sign? So, it's normal. We'll see but I wouldn't want morrow on 4th anyway.
That's what in saying, and maybe Bergevin meet with Morrow with realistically hopes and wants to sign him and has a side deal to move someone to make room, until/if it happen really can't much more

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08-02-2013, 11:50 PM
  #162
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Has anyone who watched Briere in the last year more than a few times offer any unbiased insight into what we can expect from him?

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08-03-2013, 07:25 AM
  #163
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Has anyone who watched Briere in the last year more than a few times offer any unbiased insight into what we can expect from him?
Check out Philly's board. They like the guy but acknowledge that his gas tank looked nearly empty. In fairness, Briere was injured for part of the season so it's always possible he comes back healthy and stronger. I crapped all over this signing, but I'll be cheering for Danny to prove me (and most of us) wrong.

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08-03-2013, 09:22 AM
  #164
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i lost all respect for cole after his comments after the lockout. Yeah buddy, you're leaving alot of buddy on the table but you're not going to make me cry when I bust my arse for 35K a year....anyways back to topic, It looks like his attitude was poisonning the locker so it was a good trade.

As for Briere, maybe not the ideal replacement as I would have like size and grit but Briere is a proven clutch player and he wants to play here so I will give him the chance. Worst case scenario, we got him for only 2 year at a decent salary comparing to some.

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08-03-2013, 02:55 PM
  #165
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Which disease would you rather be inflicted with?

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08-03-2013, 03:27 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Check out Philly's board. They like the guy but acknowledge that his gas tank looked nearly empty. In fairness, Briere was injured for part of the season so it's always possible he comes back healthy and stronger. I crapped all over this signing, but I'll be cheering for Danny to prove me (and most of us) wrong.
The real concern with Briere is his concussion problems. It has clearly affected his game and with Philly's reputation for endangering their own players health and forcing them back into the lineup it is possible that he shouldn't have played much, if at all last season.

On a positive note, if that was the problem, a healthy Briere could be a great bargain at 4 million


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08-03-2013, 03:33 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're really going to argue that making your stars miss the early part of the year because you're dead set on them signing an under value contract is actually good?
Or you really want to argue that PK is worth as little as Michael freaking Del Zotto? Or Spurgeon? Really Habsterix..
Or that the DD signing NEEDED to happen at that time??

I never claimed they were facts, I said there's nothing to really argue over about those things because it's so obvious. But I guess when you have blind faith you will find excuses for the most obvious of mistakes.
goes both way.

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08-03-2013, 04:05 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
The real concern with Briere is his concussion problems. It has clearly affected his game and with Philly's reputation for endangering their own players health and forcing them back into the lineup it is possible that he shouldn't have played much, if at all last season.

On a positive note, if that was the problem, a healthy Briere could be a great bargain at 4 million
Does Philly really have a rep for endangering its players? I assume you're talking about Lindros, but that was in the NHL's pre-enlightenment era, during Bobby Clarke's administration, wasn't it?

In the Holmgren era, aside from Briere, I remember Simmonds' concussion and Pronger's dramatic career-ending eye-injury/concussion. As far as I know, there were no rumblings of anyone being mishandled or rushed back prematurely.

Fill me in if I missed something.

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08-03-2013, 04:40 PM
  #169
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goes both way.
Not an apt argument at all.

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08-03-2013, 05:01 PM
  #170
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Not an apt argument at all.
sure it is, using the same logic I'd say that if P.K. loves the Habs as much as he saying he does, he should have told his agent to make sre he starts the season on time.

thinking it's 100% on MB is "insert a nicer word than one I'd use" at best.

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08-03-2013, 05:49 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Check out Philly's board. They like the guy but acknowledge that his gas tank looked nearly empty. In fairness, Briere was injured for part of the season so it's always possible he comes back healthy and stronger. I crapped all over this signing, but I'll be cheering for Danny to prove me (and most of us) wrong.
thing is, even if he does play well, it doesn't really change the "risk" factor, the "poor fit" factor, or the "unnecessary" factor, all of which contribute to why so many people dislike the signing.


put differently, if Briere does have a resurgence, and much like Cole, has a fantastic year production-wise, but the team does worse than last year (or drops as far as missing the playoffs), does that still qualify as a "success" or a "good move"?

GM's job is to build a winner (#1) & improve the roster/results year over year (#2).

Only way the Briere signing is a "good" one, is if one of those two happen. If he plays well, but the team does poorly/worse, who the hell cares?

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08-03-2013, 06:16 PM
  #172
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thing is, even if he does play well, it doesn't really change the "risk" factor, the "poor fit" factor, or the "unnecessary" factor, all of which contribute to why so many people dislike the signing.


put differently, if Briere does have a resurgence, and much like Cole, has a fantastic year production-wise, but the team does worse than last year (or drops as far as missing the playoffs), does that still qualify as a "success" or a "good move"?

GM's job is to build a winner (#1) & improve the roster/results year over year (#2).

Only way the Briere signing is a "good" one, is if one of those two happen. If he plays well, but the team does poorly/worse, who the hell cares?
I agree with everything you said; geez, I've been saying the same thing for weeks. It's like Bergevin addressed the leaks in our boat by purchasing another paddle.

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08-03-2013, 09:37 PM
  #173
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Can we please stop saying that Briere is 5'10?

I thought habs fans knew better.

youtube: briere giroux

First hit, at the 4 seconds marks, Giroux, listed at 5'11, is at least a few inches taller.

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08-04-2013, 01:45 AM
  #174
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I can't wait to see Briere pile up the points and see idiots posting advanced, ultra-precise micro-stats in some crazy precise random situations to make their point on how it was a "bad signing". I also can't wait for some to point out that us having a worst season this year if it happens (which will probably be the case), is because of Briere's signing and nothing else.

I personally am not a fan of what Bergevin has done with our D so far. I'm all for getting bigger players.

But if you think it would have been possible to get bigger by signing a decent and fair contract with one of the PWFs on the market, or by getting a prospect up (all our prospects who are close from being NHL ready, which none are right now up front, are small), you're dreaming. The reality is; getting Briere in MTL DOESN'T make any of our prospects stay any longer than needed in the minors. None are ready. NONE. N-O-N-E. And whatever you say about the "fit", all the guys who would have been a fit have been signed to ridiculous contracts.

Some of you guys would have rather if we done nothing. How the hell would have started in MTL? Tell me. Give up some examples. Please. I'd really like to hear it.

Thomas? Leblanc? No. None of them. And even if they did, they still would've been poor fits.

People go overboard with his lack of defensive game. He's not any worst than Ryder in that aspect of the game. It's as if people can't get over what happened in 2007. Or can't get over some of the cultural realities about him. Or can't get over we didn't pull a miracle and didn't trade for Chris Stewart when his value was at its highest.

And while I would like to have a tougher defensive squad and more size on the top-lines (which we've been working to get via draft lately with guys like Galchenyuk, Bozon and McCarron), I still can't remember when a team like the Habs had that many physical guys on their bottom-2 lines. Guys like Bourque, White, Prust, Moen, Parros will probably all play those kinds of minutes at ES. We're far from the years where we had Darche, Weber, Engqvist, Tom Pyatt patrolling the bottom-2 lines with Moen as an exception in the lot.

Cammalleri - Plekanec - Kostitsyn
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Eller - Gomez - Gionta
Moen - Engqvist - Darche

Gill - Subban
Emelin - Diaz
Gorges - Campoli

You guys remember that lineup? It's what we had back in the beginning of the 2011-2012 season. NO toughness. No power game. No way to answer to intimidation or to the physical play.

Versus now:

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Gallagher
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
Galchenyuk - Eller - Briere
Moen - Prust - Parros
White

Markov - Emelin
Tinordi - Subban
Gorges - Bouillon
Diaz

Tinordi, Bouillon, Prust, Parros, White, Bourque are all guys who are tougher than most of what we had this season. That's a significant change for the best. And while it's still not ideal, we're still way tougher than we were a couple of seasons ago. The Bruins start to goon it up this year, I'm definitely not as worried as I was this season. We also, for one, have more size in the top-9.

Galchenyuk, Eller, Pacioretty, Bourque now,
Eller, Cole, Pacioretty then.

It might not be the biggest step forward in history, but we definitely didn't get "softer" or "less physical" in any way like some people say. It's as if people can't look at the big picture.

Would I rather have a big power forward instead of one of the small guys? Jeez guys. Look at my post history. Of course I would. But it just wasn't possible this season.

And instead of giving an NHL spot to one of our eternal tweeners in Hamilton (Leblanc, Bournival, Thomas (who I don't hate or love any more than Kristo, but who is still just that at this point of his career), Holland), I'd rather give this spot to a guy who adds puck skills to a lineup who darely missed it last season, who adds playoffs experience and clutchyness, who adds a strong locker room presence, and who can give us an actual power play weapon up front, when you guys know we had NO power play specialist up front, excluding the one who did nothing right when we got past mid-April and who signed in NJ this summer. And while this is far from being the scenario of my dreams, while we definitely need a mean, tough power forward on our top-9 somewhere, I can see how that move was the best join we could make between "not giving up a stupid contract" and "adding a guy who makes us better".

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08-04-2013, 02:41 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I can't wait to see Briere pile up the points and see idiots posting advanced, ultra-precise micro-stats in some crazy precise random situations to make their point on how it was a "bad signing". I also can't wait for some to point out that us having a worst season this year if it happens (which will probably be the case), is because of Briere's signing and nothing else.
i'm not seeing many ppl on either side of the discussion setting themselves up to eat as much crow as you are...

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