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Penguins #5 prospect

View Poll Results: Who is our #5 prospect?
Josh Archibald (20, Nebraska-Omaha/WCHA) 2 1.36%
Teddy Blueger (18, Minnesota State/WCHA) 30 20.41%
Nick D'Agostino (23, Cornell/ECAC) 0 0%
Jake Guentzel (18, Sioux City/USHL) 1 0.68%
Eric Hartzell (24, Quinnipiac/ECAC) 45 30.61%
Tristan Jarry (18, Edmonton/WHL) 52 35.37%
Tom Kühnhackl (21, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 5 3.40%
Matia Marcantuoni (19, Kitchener/OHL) 1 0.68%
Jayson Megna (23, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 2 1.36%
Bryan Rust (21, Notre Dame/CCHA) 1 0.68%
Philip Samuelsson (22, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 2 1.36%
Oscar Sundqvist (19, Skellefteå AIK Juniors/SWE) 1 0.68%
Dominik Uher (20, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 0 0%
Scott Wilson (21, UMass-Lowell/Hockey East) 0 0%
Anton Zlobin (20, Val d'Or/QMJHL) 5 3.40%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-28-2013, 01:06 PM
  #26
thecore
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I think the rest of the prospects have such limited upside that it's hard to argue any of them over Jarry, who has such obvious tools to be a starter in the NHL, even if there's a 25% chance or so he makes it (pessimistic) versus 60% or so for the optimist.

I could see arguments for Blueger and Archibald.

I don't get the Hartzell praise. If everyone on this board wasn't feverishly trying to justify gettting rid of Fleury, Hartzell wouldn't even be mentioned until #10 or so, which is about where he belongs, IMO.

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07-28-2013, 01:17 PM
  #27
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Going with Blueger because of his pedigree/skill/smarts combo.

I like the fact that he's already relied on as a key faceoff man in the WCHA as a guy who just turned 18 before the season started too.

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07-28-2013, 01:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
And voting for Samuelsson at this point isn't.
Yeah, but it is based on observing him and watching him play. He had a quietly impressive season.

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Originally Posted by Gwydyr View Post
Isn't wishful thinking basically the idea that prospect lists are based upon? Even our number 1 prospect, Pouliot, is not a guaranteed NHL-er; he can just as easily become a Marc-Andre Bergeron or even nothing at all. He wouldn't be the first 8th overall to bust. But still, he's been voted as our number one prospect because of potential. And potential is almost synonymous with wishful thinking. So, based on that line of thinking, I don't think it's unfair to place Jarry, a goalie with high potential, at number 5.

That said, if I could vote, I would have voted Blueger with Jarry not too far behind.
I agree, but these are two guys who just came into the organization, haven't played a pro game (which applies a bunch of other prospects as well, but at least people have been tracking them for more than a couple months), and in Jarry's case could be several years away. Everyone wants a Fleury replacement and I think to some extent rating these guys so highly is a somewhat transparent expression of that.

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07-28-2013, 01:48 PM
  #29
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Yeah, but it is based on observing him and watching him play. He had a quietly impressive season.



I agree, but these are two guys who just came into the organization, haven't played a pro game (which applies a bunch of other prospects as well, but at least people have been tracking them for more than a couple months), and in Jarry's case could be several years away. Everyone wants a Fleury replacement and I think to some extent rating these guys so highly is a somewhat transparent expression of that.
I don't see that.

If that was the case, we would also have our forwards being pumped up. As we are great need of fwds.

It could be more of a case of new to the organization rating. And Jary being taken so high in the draft for a goalie.


Last edited by td_ice: 07-28-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old
07-28-2013, 02:00 PM
  #30
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I don't see that.

If that was the case, we would also have our forwards being pumped up. As we are great need of fwds.

It could be more of a case of new to the organization rating. And Jary being taken so high in the draft for a goalie.
Yeah, being the highest drafted prospect remaining at this point (and the consensus 2nd best goalie in the draft) would be the main factor, I think.

Nothing to dislike about Jarry at this point really. He's just very unproven.

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07-28-2013, 02:08 PM
  #31
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I don't see that.

If that was the case, we would also have our forwards being pumped up. As we are great need of fwds.

It could be more of a case of new to the organization rating. And Jary being taken so high in the draft for a goalie.
The forwards don't get pumped up as much because of Bennett. If he didn't exist people would be voting for Zlobin, Megna, Kuhnhackl, etc. a lot sooner. Also there isn't an immediate, desperate need for a key forward (though there are certainly opportunities for improvement), just some bottom six guys. People care about Adam Payerl now thanks to that and some positive buzz from the prospect camp.

That said I can see voting for Jarry here because of his pedigree. The buzz around Hartzell is more questionable.

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07-28-2013, 02:09 PM
  #32
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The Hartzell/Jarry debate is an interesting one. For the purposes of this poll, it's just as much a referendum on what people value more when ranking prospects -- results or upside.

I tend to lean toward the latter, but I think it still goes on a case-by-case basis. I think there's little question, for example, that Pouliot has the highest ceiling of any prospect in the pool. But I still voted for Maatta ahead of him.

1. Maatta
2. Pouliot
3. Harrington
4. Jarry
5. Dumoulin

...is how I went. But with how close things are with many of these guys, I wouldn't be surprised if I had a different list by October.

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07-28-2013, 02:15 PM
  #33
td_ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoPuntzJones View Post
The forwards don't get pumped up as much because of Bennett. If he didn't exist people would be voting for Zlobin, Megna, Kuhnhackl, etc. a lot sooner. Also there isn't an immediate, desperate need for a key forward (though there are certainly opportunities for improvement), just some bottom six guys. People care about Adam Payerl now thanks to that and some positive buzz from the prospect camp.

That said I can see voting for Jarry here because of his pedigree. The buzz around Hartzell is more questionable.
Well we definitely disagree. I don't see people voting for the goalies as a transparent desire to replace Fleury. I think that sells the people voting for them very short. Especially when I see the quality of posters voting for those guys.

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07-28-2013, 02:26 PM
  #34
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I went with Jarry, more of a prospect to me than Hartzell but both have top potential.

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07-28-2013, 02:51 PM
  #35
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I am having a hard time deciding between Blueger and Jarry. State your cases, people.

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07-28-2013, 02:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Went with Jarry...Hartzell has to prove something before I buy into the hype of a college free agent again.
And the 18 year old kid who hasn't even started for his jr team doesn't have to prove anything?

I get the "shiny new prospect" hype Jarry is getting but people need to temper their expectations.

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07-28-2013, 03:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
And the 18 year old kid who hasn't even started for his jr team doesn't have to prove anything?

I get the "shiny new prospect" hype Jarry is getting but people need to temper their expectations.
to be fair, I think its also a situation where our expectations for everybody else are pretty low

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07-28-2013, 03:18 PM
  #38
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speaking of Jarry, i don't think i've seen anyone post this scouting report from back in April. Justin Goldman of the The Goalie Guild and director of goalie scouting for McKeen's Hockey:

Quote:
Scout’s take: “I love his ability to compete,” says Goldman. “I like that he's a non-robotic butterfly goalie in a world where bigger goalies are more robotic than ever before. I like that he can make dynamic saves, like reaching a leg pad along the goal line, catching pucks by his ear and just over his shoulder, or getting pieces of elevated shots with his stick paddle. He has good natural athleticism and flexibility to go along with a solid frame. Furthermore, his ability to post such good stats as a backup is a testament to his mental game. He is a sponge; he wants to learn as much as he possibly can because he knows his playing time is limited behind Brossoit. He has strong practice habits and treats them with a serious undertone, like a game. I'd say he's easily a top-5 goaltender and could rise depending on how he's weighed by teams and scouts.”
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrh...051715615.html

takes practice seriously, like it's a game...hmmm, where have i NOT heard that before.

anyways i voted for Blueger. obviously the stuff from the Pittsburgh commentators during the last two development camps has been nice to read, but what i like is that WCHA and Mankato commentators have been impressed by him both on-and-off the ice.

edit: could be that i've been drinking the kool-aid of the The Mankato Free Press - when i went to look for the articles i remember reading over the course of the season, i found that they're all from the same local newspaper. lol.

all the articles are filled with quotes like this one:

Quote:
“He hasn’t missed a beat; he looks good,” Hastings said. “It’s exciting to have him back with what he brings on the ice. And he’s well-liked and well-respected in the locker room.”
http://mankatofreepress.com/sports/x...-Blueger/print


Last edited by Crafton: 07-28-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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07-28-2013, 03:30 PM
  #39
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I wouldn't be surprised if Hartzell turns out to be a better pro than Jarry but Tristan has the higher upside.

A friend of mine that played goalie in college and isn't a Pens fan, raved about Hartzell before the Pens even signed him. Said for a guy his size, his lateral movement is phenomenal and definitely pro level. Said he reminded him of a just shorter version of Pekka Rinne.

Jarry's battle and stick work is amazing. He's the anti-Fleury when it comes to mental game and causing turnovers with his stick. I don't think there's a coincidence the Pens gave him number 29 at the camp recently to send a message to Fleury to get his **** together and that the Pens have their new goalie of the future coming around.

I voted for Jarry because his upside is huge. Hartzell will be my #6. It's the first time in a long time I can remember the Pens have had some decent goaltending depth in their system.

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07-28-2013, 03:33 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Hartzell turns out to be a better pro than Jarry but Tristan has the higher upside.

A friend of mine that played goalie in college and isn't a Pens fan, raved about Hartzell before the Pens even signed him. Said for a guy his size, his lateral movement is phenomenal and definitely pro level. Said he reminded him of a just shorter version of Pekka Rinne.

Jarry's battle and stick work is amazing. He's the anti-Fleury when it comes to mental game and causing turnovers with his stick. I don't think there's a coincidence the Pens gave him number 29 at the camp recently to send a message to Fleury to get his **** together and that the Pens have their new goalie of the future coming around.
I hope that message was also given in the form of Shero flat out telling him something similar.

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07-28-2013, 03:49 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafton View Post
speaking of Jarry, i don't think i've seen anyone post this scouting report from back in April. Justin Goldman of the The Goalie Guild and director of goalie scouting for McKeen's Hockey:



http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrh...051715615.html

takes practice seriously, like it's a game...hmmm, where have i NOT heard that before.

anyways i voted for Blueger. obviously the stuff from the Pittsburgh commentators during the last two development camps has been nice to read, but what i like is that WCHA and Mankato commentators have been impressed by him both on-and-off the ice.

edit: could be that i've been drinking the kool-aid of the The Mankato Free Press - when i went to look for the articles i remember reading over the course of the season, i found that they're all from the same local newspaper. lol.

all the articles are filled with quotes like this one:



http://mankatofreepress.com/sports/x...-Blueger/print
It would be nice to have a goalie like that for once. Not one who sees practice as a time to goof around.

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07-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #42
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I know we're excited about our goalies...but posting these articles means little to me.

I'm sure everything written about Fleury and his potential was glowing back when he was the first player taken in the draft.

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07-28-2013, 04:01 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
I know we're excited about our goalies...but posting these articles means little to me.

I'm sure everything written about Fleury and his potential was glowing back when he was the first player taken in the draft.
fair point. but who here was watching the Oil King's back-up back in February? there's nothing wrong in hearing what commentators have to say as long as expectations are tempered.

i'm exaggerating now, but there are some here who act like you can't say a single thing about a prospect (good or bad) until after they played in the Stanley Cup Final.

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07-28-2013, 04:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Hartzell turns out to be a better pro than Jarry but Tristan has the higher upside.

A friend of mine that played goalie in college and isn't a Pens fan, raved about Hartzell before the Pens even signed him. Said for a guy his size, his lateral movement is phenomenal and definitely pro level. Said he reminded him of a just shorter version of Pekka Rinne.

Jarry's battle and stick work is amazing. He's the anti-Fleury when it comes to mental game and causing turnovers with his stick. I don't think there's a coincidence the Pens gave him number 29 at the camp recently to send a message to Fleury to get his **** together and that the Pens have their new goalie of the future coming around.

I voted for Jarry because his upside is huge. Hartzell will be my #6. It's the first time in a long time I can remember the Pens have had some decent goaltending depth in their system.
That's what I'm talking about... stuff like this from people who know goalies / have watched these guys. My admittedly unrefined take on what I've read is that these guys are way better than your typical goalie prospects.

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07-28-2013, 04:06 PM
  #45
#66
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Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
I know we're excited about our goalies...but posting these articles means little to me.

I'm sure everything written about Fleury and his potential was glowing back when he was the first player taken in the draft.
It was and it should have been the Pens Fed up MAF. When you throw a kid to the wolves, not give him a goalie coach for 5 years and yo yo him up and down... what do you expect?

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07-28-2013, 04:07 PM
  #46
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I'm all for talking up prospects and their skillsets, but when we compare a goalies mental capability as a prospect to Fleury now, it bugs me. That's literally the most impossible thing to predict.

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07-28-2013, 04:08 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
That's what I'm talking about... stuff like this from people who know goalies / have watched these guys. My admittedly unrefined take on what I've read is that these guys are way better than your typical goalie prospects.
so are our top d prospects.

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07-28-2013, 05:05 PM
  #48
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I picked Jarry because I've seen the stellar college goaltender turned pro before. It hasn't looked pretty.

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07-28-2013, 05:18 PM
  #49
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It was and it should have been the Pens Fed up MAF. When you throw a kid to the wolves, not give him a goalie coach for 5 years and yo yo him up and down... what do you expect?
The Fleury situation, and how he was brought along, is one of the most illusive (for lack of a better word) things to peg down as to what ramifications it had on him. I do think that earlier in his career, how we dealt with him hurt him considerably, but I'm not sure if that's a real reason anymore.

What we're seeing with Fleury now is demons that have not been addressed. I think his mental toughness has gotten better over the years, but it's still not very good. I think most of those demons have come with that WJC gaffe he had.

There's a handful of things that I just cannot understand how Fleury cannot get better at...puck handling, rebound control, and lateral control. The puck handling is a lost cause, but how wildly inconsistent his control of his rebounds and post-to-post movements are baffling to me. How, at 28 (almost 29) years old and being a goaltender in the NHL for 10 years, he still losses his net from play ONE shot is something that cannot be excused. I don't know what he does with his pads, as I swear no other goalie has pucks bounce off of theirs like Fleury does. Look at Vokoun...puck hits him and it dies. Puck hits Fleury and it looks like a superball.


Didn't mean to take the thread OT.

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07-28-2013, 06:09 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
A friend of mine that played goalie in college and isn't a Pens fan, raved about Hartzell before the Pens even signed him. Said for a guy his size, his lateral movement is phenomenal and definitely pro level. Said he reminded him of a just shorter version of Pekka Rinne.
High praise indeed. Now if only they could lure Mitch Korn to Pittsburgh... four guys in the pipeline as good as any crop he's ever had in Nashville, and that's saying a lot.

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