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Dave Nonis early criticism..

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07-30-2013, 01:35 PM
  #276
Smif
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I don't think you have an appreciation for the term "handcuffed."

The longest "bad" contract Burke signed was Grabovski at 5 years. It should be noted that that was his UFA year, and that probably played a role in that inflated dollar amount. Regardless, I'll reserve judgement until I see what he does for the next 4 years.

Beyond that, you've got Connolly for 2 years, Liles for 4, Komisarek for 4, Armstrong for 3. That's a lot of longterm flexibility, and nothing that even approaches the absurdity of Clarkson for 7, and nothing like the major handcuffs around the league like Bryz, Richards, etc.
I'll gladly overpay (I'm not even sure you can use the word "overpay" if we got him cheaper than what others would've paid) for the guy everyone wanted rather than settle for the sloppy seconds we've been bringing in the last 2-4 years.

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07-30-2013, 01:43 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Smif View Post
I'll gladly overpay (I'm not even sure you can use the word "overpay" if we got him cheaper than what others would've paid) for the guy everyone wanted rather than settle for the sloppy seconds we've been bringing in the last 2-4 years.
You and Glen Slather both.

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07-30-2013, 01:49 PM
  #278
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People love to call signings overpayments, but if you sign a guy at about 750k less than it's known other teams offered, it's kinda hard to take calling that an overpayment seriously.

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07-30-2013, 01:55 PM
  #279
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Good stuff as usual from DGB on the Leafs offseason so far:

Grantland

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07-30-2013, 01:57 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
Good stuff as usual from DGB on the Leafs offseason so far:

Grantland
What a surprise, someone irrationally bashes virtually every move and people agree. Honestly, theres absolutely nothing this franchise can do that will satisfy everybody. NOTHING

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07-30-2013, 02:03 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
What a surprise, someone irrationally bashes virtually every move and people agree. Honestly, theres absolutely nothing this franchise can do that will satisfy everybody. NOTHING
We could win the cup next season in convincing fashion and people would find things to complain about.

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07-30-2013, 02:06 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
Good stuff as usual from DGB on the Leafs offseason so far:

Grantland
Oh DGB. I usually really like his stuff. Couldn't help but notice the quotes he used for his Clarkson bashing. CBS Sports, Yahoo, SI and a Score blog.

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07-30-2013, 02:08 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
What a surprise, someone irrationally bashes virtually every move and people agree. Honestly, theres absolutely nothing this franchise can do that will satisfy everybody. NOTHING
What has this franchise done recently to deserve any respect whatsoever? If anything last year was the aberration. It seems much more reasonable to expect clumsy, shortsighted failure than it is to expect brilliant moves.

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07-30-2013, 02:11 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
What a surprise, someone irrationally bashes virtually every move and people agree. Honestly, theres absolutely nothing this franchise can do that will satisfy everybody. NOTHING
Nothing in that articles was irrational, and he only bashed about half the moves.

Did you even read it?

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07-30-2013, 02:11 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by LordRamsay View Post
Oh DGB. I usually really like his stuff. Couldn't help but notice the quotes he used for his Clarkson bashing. CBS Sports, Yahoo, SI and a Score blog.
Yeah, that was far and away the weakest part of the post.

God I hate The Backhand Shelf.

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07-30-2013, 02:15 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Nothing in that articles was irrational, and he only bashed about half the moves.

Did you even read it?
Even the moves that registered low on the Bizarrometer (really?) were laced with snark. I know that's DGB's shtick and it couldn't have been more deserved when JFJ and Fletch were running the show, but I think he's off-base here. The Clarkson signing especially is being unfairly bashed. So it's a couple years too long...why are we so concerned about the 2018-19 season? Seriously, life is wayyyy too short.

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07-30-2013, 02:16 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by LordRamsay View Post
Even the moves that registered low on the Bizarrometer (really?) were laced with snark. I know that's DGB's shtick and it couldn't have been more deserved when JFJ and Fletch were running the show, but I think he's off-base here. The Clarkson signing especially is being unfairly bashed. So it's a couple years too long...why are we so concerned about the 2018-19 season? Seriously, life is wayyyy too short.
You already said it, that's their schtick. There's no reason to be offended by it, especially when he is essentially praising any deal "low on the Bizzarometer"

The Tucker buyout is currently affecting the Leafs' ability to resign Franson.

The GM and franchise should always be future-proofing the team, and that's why you can criticize the term on Clarkson's deal.

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07-30-2013, 02:17 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by LordRamsay View Post
Even the moves that registered low on the Bizarrometer (really?) were laced with snark. I know that's DGB's shtick and it couldn't have been more deserved when JFJ and Fletch were running the show, but I think he's off-base here. The Clarkson signing especially is being unfairly bashed. So it's a couple years too long...why are we so concerned about the 2018-19 season? Seriously, life is wayyyy too short.
This is the mentality that cost the organization between 2002-2005. "Who cares about 2009?"

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07-30-2013, 02:20 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
This is the mentality that cost the organization between 2002-2005. "Who cares about 2009?"
Meh. 2013 is not 2002 or 2005. I think you're being over dramatic anyway. You act like this signing is one of the signs of the apocalypse.

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07-30-2013, 02:21 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
You already said it, that's their schtick. There's no reason to be offended by it, especially when he is essentially praising any deal "low on the Bizzarometer"

The Tucker buyout is currently affecting the Leafs' ability to resign Franson.

The GM and franchise should always be future-proofing the team, and that's why you can criticize the term on Clarkson's deal.
Who said offend? Just putting in my two cents.

Yes the term is too long and the $ is a half million or so too much. That's the cost of doing business with UFAs in the NHL. We'll see if it's a bad move or not.

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07-30-2013, 02:22 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by LordRamsay View Post
Meh. 2013 is not 2002 or 2005. I think you're being over dramatic anyway. You act like this signing is one of the signs of the apocalypse.
I don't think many are saying that, I think most are just saying it's a lot of money and too long a term for a player who has never put up fifty points.

Seems reasonable.

There will be deals in any off-season that are among the easiest to criticize, at the moment, this is that deal.

Hopefully Clarkson continues his upward trend and is worth the money.

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07-30-2013, 02:23 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by LordRamsay View Post
Meh. 2013 is not 2002 or 2005. I think you're being over dramatic anyway. You act like this signing is one of the signs of the apocalypse.
You must be a new Leafs fan. Clearly you don't remember how shortsightedness like that has cost this franchise for the past 40 years.

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07-30-2013, 02:25 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
What has this franchise done recently to deserve any respect whatsoever? If anything last year was the aberration. It seems much more reasonable to expect clumsy, shortsighted failure than it is to expect brilliant moves.
This franchise hasn't won a cup no but what sense is there in criticizing every single thing? It makes no sense to me.
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Nothing in that articles was irrational, and he only bashed about half the moves.

Did you even read it?
I did, everything about it had a sense of talking down . It bothered me, not that its criticizing, if something deserves to be then thats fine but looking for some reason to complain or act as if the moves were done were just terrible. It bothers me

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Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
This is the mentality that cost the organization between 2002-2005. "Who cares about 2009?"
Had they won a cup, would you care about 2009? Don't give me this"but we didn't" response either. Leafs were close, its easy to complain in hindsight but had they won a cup or two, I don't think anybody would be complaining . Just like the Chicago fans if they don't win anything in 10-15 years, they got 2 cups now they're fine for a few years

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07-30-2013, 02:28 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
This is the mentality that cost the organization between 2002-2005. "Who cares about 2009?"
Quinn and JFJ did the right thing by going for it in those years. It was the following years that crippled us when we were still going for it but we weren't even close.

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07-30-2013, 02:29 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
You must be a new Leafs fan. Clearly you don't remember how shortsightedness like that has cost this franchise for the past 40 years.
I'm going to just go ahead and say I was watching the Leafs when you were just a twinkle in your father's eye.

Anyway...overpaying UFAs by a half million or so and a couple years of term is not the reason why the Leafs haven't won a Cup in 40+ years.

Now you've got me going. Worst free agent signings in the UFA era...Jason Blake? Komisarek? Did we sign Dave Gagner back in 96 or so? Anyway...what did the Leafs miss out on by having these plugs on the roster? It's been poor drafting combined with trading too many 1st rounders. Kessel trade aside, what did Burke do and what has Nonis done since they've been here? Draft first rounders, trade for first rounders and even JFJ was a good drafter.

Don't try and tell me why the Leafs haven't won the last 40 years...I lived through the Ballard years.

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07-30-2013, 02:32 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
Added Frazer McLaren and boom, playoff team!
The truth is that neither Nonis or Burke is really responsible for the team being a playoff team last year.

The Leafs had 5 more points in 48 games during 2012/2013 than they had in 2011/2012.
It can be explained by:

1) James Reimer playing better
2) Kadri improving
3) Jay McClement and Leo Komarov
4) The emergence of Cody Franson
5) Random chance.

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07-30-2013, 02:34 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
The truth is that neither Nonis or Burke is really responsible for the team being a playoff team last year.

The Leafs had 5 more points in 48 games during 2012/2013 than they had in 2011/2012.
It can be explained by:

1) James Reimer playing better
2) Kadri improving
3) Jay McClement and Leo Komarov
4) The emergence of Cody Franson
5) Random chance.
Ya, ignore the coaching change

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07-30-2013, 02:36 PM
  #298
LordRamsay
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
The truth is that neither Nonis or Burke is really responsible for the team being a playoff team last year.

The Leafs had 5 more points in 48 games during 2012/2013 than they had in 2011/2012.
It can be explained by:

1) James Reimer playing better
2) Kadri improving
3) Jay McClement and Leo Komarov
4) The emergence of Cody Franson
5) Random chance.
Yes exactly, players develop. Amazing. OK wait, why can't you credit Nonis or Burke again? lol @ random chance. That's hockey for you.

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07-30-2013, 02:36 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
The truth is that neither Nonis or Burke is really responsible for the team being a playoff team last year.

The Leafs had 5 more points in 48 games during 2012/2013 than they had in 2011/2012.
It can be explained by:

1) James Reimer playing better
2) Kadri improving
3) Jay McClement and Leo Komarov
4) The emergence of Cody Franson
5) Random chance.
There's also that Randy Carlyle guy.

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07-30-2013, 02:38 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
The truth is that neither Nonis or Burke is really responsible for the team being a playoff team last year.

The Leafs had 5 more points in 48 games during 2012/2013 than they had in 2011/2012.
It can be explained by:

1) James Reimer playing better
2) Kadri improving
3) Jay McClement and Leo Komarov
4) The emergence of Cody Franson
5) Random chance.
I think Kadri's improvement had to do with the patience they showed in his development. The club could have bowed to external pressure to have him up but they did what they felt was best his development. I know there were plenty around here clamouring for him to be up, regardless of where he was in his development. Jay McClement was signed by Burke and Cody Franson was traded for by Burke.

I think points 2-4 on your list have Burke's finger prints all over them.

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