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Anyone else unable to religiously follow this team atm ?

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Old
07-29-2013, 09:47 PM
  #101
Crafton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
By the way, other than 10-11, when was the other time we lost after going up 3-1? I see that thrown around quite a bit and I can't figure out the second time.
i don't think that's the argument. i believe the argument goes as follows:

in four straight years the pens under Bylsma have lost to a team that they were favored to beat.

a rebuttal is that the Tampa series should be excluded because even if the pens were the fourth seed, Sid and Geno weren't on the roster, so how can one claim that the pens were favored?

the response is usually that once the pens went up 3-1 in the series, they became favored regardless of the status of Sid/Geno.

at least that's the context i remember surrounding the 3-1 thing.

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07-29-2013, 09:48 PM
  #102
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
the penguin have lost to lower seeded teams each of the last 4 years.

they are underachievers, yet refuse to address the culprits.
three of those were losses to the team 1 seed below us. That is as close to meaningless as it gets.

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07-29-2013, 09:51 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Crafton View Post
i don't think that's the argument. i believe the argument goes as follows:

in four straight years the pens under Bylsma have lost to a team that they were favored to beat.

a rebuttal is that the Tampa series should be excluded because even if the pens were the fourth seed, Sid and Geno weren't on the roster, so how can one claim that the pens were favored?

the response is usually that once the pens went up 3-1 in the series, they became favored regardless of the status of Sid/Geno.

at least that's the context i remember surrounding the 3-1 thing.
That would make sense but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
They've also lost twice after going up 3-1 and gone down 3-0 twice.
I've seen this comment multiple times on this board.

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07-29-2013, 09:52 PM
  #104
Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
three of those were losses to the team 1 seed below us. That is as close to meaningless as it gets.
as explained in the post above, even if you ignore the seedings, the pens were still widely favored in all of those series yet lost.

they consistently underachieve.

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07-29-2013, 09:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
That would make sense but...

I've seen this comment multiple times on this board.
maybe some people can't let 1975 go?

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07-29-2013, 09:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
as explained in the post above, even if you ignore the seedings, the pens were still widely favored in all of those series yet lost.

they consistently underachieve.
winning in the NHL is really hard and the people that call anyone a heavy favorite to win a cup should expect to be wrong. If the expectation is to win the cup, you are going to underachieve the majority of the time.

Also, we weren't highly favored against Tampa. And anybody who thinks we were highly favored this year are idiots. Boston is a really damn good team.

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07-29-2013, 09:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
maybe winning in the NHL is really hard and the people that call anyone a heavy favorite to win a cup should expect to be wrong.
by my observation nearly everyone appears to be disappointed in the results of the last few years, but it looks like some absolutely relish the opportunity to invoke the underachieving, choking, losers rhetoric. i guess that can be a coping mechanism...

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07-29-2013, 09:59 PM
  #108
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Do you mean widely favored as in "a lot of people thought they would win" or widely as in expected to get by relatively easily? Because the former is true, I guess, even if they limped into the Lightning series, but everyone thought the 2012 Flyers and 2013 Bruins would be really hard fought.

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07-29-2013, 10:01 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I don't think this is where people have a problem. Them, like me, are not upset about not making the cup round but how they managed to miss out on it. Loading up the way they did and still had troubles scoring for multitudes of reasons, and now going into a new season with actually less than they had last year, sans, Scuderi.

It's about curbing expectations, and I didn't have mine set beyond the ECF's, but they still should not have had the troubles they did. We're a bunch of Pens fans that have been reeled back from various reasons for not getting far in the playoffs, and then finally everyone's healthy, sans, Sid, again. They made it to the ECF's, I'm happy with that, and there's nothing wrong with being curbed even more looking at what they held onto and what they let go, for they will be better in the long-term, but this one season coming up, baring some changes, does not look to repeat this past ECF's mark for just turnover alone.

What I'm saying is, I'll watch every game, make 4 to 8 GDT's, as per usual, but my expectations are a 2nd round effort for them this year, and that's going backwards with healthy players, and the Olympics I could really careless about because, my first loyalty is to the, Pens. I really don't want our stars risking injury when I'd rather they use that effort towards a cup run.

We've all had to curb our expectations for so long for many reasons, curbing them more seems unfair, and a waste of our best assets. Yet here we are again, this year it's cap, Olympics, Bottom six, goal-tending?, coaching?, less grit/bite, I'm sure there's more.

It's a damn shame, but we're all in it for the long haul, I hope. I just hope this team can squeeze one more cup out of these few guys that make this place go round and round.

Expectations/

Some are aiming too high, but... then again, why shouldn't they?
There's no reason to curb expectations. We're coming off an ECF appearance, we bolstered our top 4 defense, we've retained all our major UFAs, Bennett and Despres will see more time now that the underwhelming vet acquisitions have been let go, and our main competition in the East took significant hits to their roster.

We will have as good a chance as anyone to win this year, as we did last year. What more do people want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
as explained in the post above, even if you ignore the seedings, the pens were still widely favored in all of those series yet lost.

they consistently underachieve.
Fleury was to blame in all of our losses from 2010 to 2012 (no team is going to win playing in front of a goalie as historically bad as Fleury over that span), and we lost to a recent Cup winner in a tightly-contested series in 2013.

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07-29-2013, 10:02 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post

Fleury was to blame in all of our losses from 2010 to 2012 (no team is going to win playing in front of a goalie as historically bad as Fleury over that span), and we lost to a recent Cup winner in a tightly-contested series in 2013.
here's where I need to disagree. It wasn't tightly contested in 2013. We got swept. We scored 2 goals. It was a really bad series.

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07-29-2013, 10:03 PM
  #111
Waffle Fries
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Originally Posted by Crafton View Post
maybe some people can't let 1975 go?
Ha maybe.

I think it's just one of those things that someone said once and, without bothering to check upon the accuracy, just kept getting repeated by others because it sounds nice in their overly pessimistic view of this team.

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07-29-2013, 10:07 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Ha maybe.

I think it's just one of those things that someone said once and, without bothering to check upon the accuracy, just kept getting repeated by others because it sounds nice in their overly pessimistic view of this team.
i mean, i'm pissed with the results of the past few years and i've been known to throw a tantrum or two (one can search for a great post wherein i call Shero a dunce for not finding a way to lure over Popov and/or Perezhogin after Malkin's brilliant WC) but i just can't see this overly pessimistic attitude being healthy.

they failed this season. they'll try again next season. this is sports. ostensibly anything can happen. why wouldn't i be excited to see how next season plays out?

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07-29-2013, 10:11 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
here's where I need to disagree. It wasn't tightly contested in 2013. We got swept. We scored 2 goals. It was a really bad series.
Atrocious refereeing caused Game 1 to get out of hand. Games 3 and 4 were anybody's game and we couldn't buy a bounce. Meanwhile Chicago gets double deflections out the yin yang the next series...there's a reason why the commentators said "Pittsburgh's wondering where those goals were all series!". Sometimes thems the breaks.

Game 2 was the only game that wasn't a "pick 'em". Yeah, we lost 4 in a row, but the idea that we were outclassed in that series is bunk. We weren't blown out by any stretch of the imagination.

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07-29-2013, 10:13 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Atrocious refereeing caused Game 1 to get out of hand. Games 3 and 4 were anybody's game and we couldn't buy a bounce. Meanwhile Chicago gets double deflections out the yin yang the next series...there's a reason why the commentators said "Pittsburgh's wondering where those goals were all series!". Sometimes thems the breaks.

Game 2 was the only game that wasn't a "pick 'em". Yeah, we lost 4 in a row, but the idea that we were outclassed in that series is bunk. We weren't blown out by any stretch of the imagination.
we got swept. It wasn't a close series. Its pretty simple. Bounces can lose you a game. Hell, they can lose you a series. But they don't make you get swept.

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07-29-2013, 10:13 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
we got swept. It wasn't a close series. Its pretty simple.
One man's "simple" is another man's "simplistic".

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07-29-2013, 10:15 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Crafton View Post
i mean, i'm pissed with the results of the past few years and i've been known to throw a tantrum or two (one can search for a great post wherein i call Shero a dunce for not finding a way to lure over Popov and/or Perezhogin after Malkin's brilliant WC) but i just can't see this overly pessimistic attitude being healthy.

they failed this season. they'll try again next season. this is sports. ostensibly anything can happen. why wouldn't i be excited to see how next season plays out?
Agreed. Sometimes I get overly emotional, but that's just because I'm passionate about the team. I don't agree with a lot of moves, and right after they happen, I can get quite angry. But I try to see the logic behind different moves, and put things into perspective.

Like you said, this is sports. This is what happens. Sometimes it feels like the fanbase thinks they're entitled to the Cup every year because Crosby and Malkin are on this team. But that's just not the case.

As I said earlier in this thread, we have it a hell of a lot better than the majority of the league. I'm glad that I'm the fan of a team that has the two best players in the world and it's great to watch them play every night as both a hockey fan and a Penguin fan. If that alone doesn't get someone excited for next year, then I just don't know.

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07-29-2013, 10:15 PM
  #117
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we scored 2 goals in 4 games. That isn't enough to win. Simple.

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07-29-2013, 10:17 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Fleury was to blame in all of our losses from 2010 to 2012 (no team is going to win playing in front of a goalie as historically bad as Fleury over that span), and we lost to a recent Cup winner in a tightly-contested series in 2013.
And yet, he's STILL here!!! HOW!? It's unreal how many opportunities one team can give a player. Being that responsible for our playoff exits, and Shero pats him on the back this off-season?? Seriously.. he's seeing a freakin psychologist at this point in his career. You have got to trim unnecessary parts of your team. I love Fleury the person, I do. He's been here since he was a baby and it will hurt to lose him.. but as a player he has lost it and a GM has to be able to make those tough decisions. That's 5 million in cap space, maybe you got out and get Emery for 2 mil or whatever and split the games with Vokoun. With the savings you can bring another player or two in. Detroit did it for how many years without a goalie? Osgood? What a joke. But they were strong everywhere else.

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07-29-2013, 10:18 PM
  #119
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Fleury and Disco are where I agree with the naysayers. I just don't agree that we can't win with them. I just think its harder than it needs to be. I also think Disco's major problems are so damn obvious that eventually he has to recognize them, right? RIGHT?












oh, my sweet summer child

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07-29-2013, 10:36 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Atrocious refereeing caused Game 1 to get out of hand. Games 3 and 4 were anybody's game and we couldn't buy a bounce. Meanwhile Chicago gets double deflections out the yin yang the next series...there's a reason why the commentators said "Pittsburgh's wondering where those goals were all series!". Sometimes thems the breaks.

Game 2 was the only game that wasn't a "pick 'em". Yeah, we lost 4 in a row, but the idea that we were outclassed in that series is bunk. We weren't blown out by any stretch of the imagination.
We played 4 straight periods of **** hockey (3rd period of game 1 through game 2). That can lose you a series against an opponent that doesn't gift you goals. Like Philly and the Isles.

And as for Chicago's lucky bounces. When you go to the net with regularity, **** like that happens more often. Way too often we were one and done in terms of scoring chances.

DB didn't get our team back on track in game 2. That lost us the series.

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07-29-2013, 10:42 PM
  #121
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Also, call me arrogant if you want, but this is what I truly believe: Built correctly, this teamshould be a dynasty. I'm talking back-to-back, three cups in four/five years. We are so unique right now. We have the two best players in the world, playing on the same team, both basically the same age and in their prime. Oh and, in my opinion, at the most important position. Can anybody find an example in the history of the NHL that has been in the same situation as us? I can't think of one.

Fleury in net is problem 1, it's mind-boggling how he is still here. Problem 2 is Bylsma and his unfortunate tendency to consistently get out-coached. But it extends beyond that. Instead of having skill with Sid and Geno, we have 2 third wheels and a revolving left winger playing with two of the greats! Our 3rd and 4th lines have no identity. Tough? Fast? Skilled? No, no, and no. The defense is what it is, I feel it was upgraded with Scuds and overall I feel its good enough.

It hurts losing years of Sids and Genos prime with the same old stuff. You know Fleury is going to get every opportunity to start again in next year's playoffs. What if we lose game 1 and 2 next year and in comes Vokoun, who plays plays fine, but its too little too late? How many years of Crosby not playing with one winger in the realm of his talent before they realize, hey, maybe if he had someone with him that could bury a chance or two, Sid might get just a little bit more ice to skate?

Hockey is my love and I will root for this team until they are out.. and if winning a Cup this year means Byslma for 5 more years then whatever, I want the Cup. The glaring flaws just take the air out of the sails though.

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07-29-2013, 10:42 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
DB didn't get our team back on track in game 2. That lost us the series.
I think the precise moment we lost that series was this:



We had the momentum, Sutter got the team and the crowd pumped, and then, just like that, it was all over.

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07-29-2013, 11:10 PM
  #124
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we have as good or even a better team today than we had last year up to the trade deadline. The salary cap dropping so much pretty much meant none of the top teams were going to significantly improve. The fact that we didn't regress is impressive in itself.

Our 3rd line is the only thing downgraded from the start of last year. Everything else is the same or better.

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07-29-2013, 11:17 PM
  #125
Waffle Fries
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
What more do people want? Progression instead of regression.

Getting swept and only scoring (2) goals is regression. Losing to a better team is fine, but actually make them work for it would be nice.
See... I just don't see how making it to the ECF, no matter the outcome, is regression from the three previous years...

Unless you mean regression from four years ago, in which case means that your expectations are probably a little overboard. This team is not going to win a Cup every year, no team will. Dynasties are a thing of the past. Mario didn't win a Cup every season either...

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