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Value of Andrew MacDonald

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Old
08-04-2013, 12:49 AM
  #26
boredmale
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My biggest concern with MacDonald is he is to injury prone. For that reason alone I would be scared giving him a long term deal over 3.5M(which I am guessing somebody will next summer)

My theory on the Islanders chances of resigning him is if Donovan comes in and proves he can be a "top 4" guy MacDonald will be as good as gone. If Donovan has a shaky year the Islanders might be more inclined to resign MacDonald.

If Strait or Hickey also can step up their game I can see MacDonald let free to test free agency waters


Last edited by boredmale: 08-04-2013 at 12:57 AM.
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08-04-2013, 01:00 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by duster19 View Post
If we keep resigning all these mediocre dman, where does the influx come from? How does our below average d get any better?
If he ever becomes the 6th or 7th best D that's ready to play and available in the system, then he becomes expendable/tradeable. Until then he's a very valuable piece and I'd consider him at least on the fringe of our core.

I like to watch him play. His skating has improved, he almost always make the smart quick decision. He matured fast.

Best case scenario for me is that he slots in at our 3/4/5 D over the next 7 or 8 years. As Donovan, Reinhart, Pulock and a mix of de Haan, Mayfield, Pokka and others move up, experience is needed.

Amac is above mediocre. And I'd say our D is average. Not too many flashy players (save an older Visnovsky), but there's more depth than we've had in years. Our 5/6 guys are solid and improving and there's plenty right behind them.


Last edited by RMimagery: 08-04-2013 at 01:05 AM.
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08-04-2013, 01:12 AM
  #28
InformTheMasses
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My biggest concern with MacDonald is he is to injury prone. For that reason alone I would be scared giving him a long term deal over 3.5M(which I am guessing somebody will next summer)

My theory on the Islanders chances of resigning him is if Donovan comes in and proves he can be a "top 4" guy MacDonald will be as good as gone. If Donovan has a shaky year the Islanders might be more inclined to resign MacDonald.

If Strait or Hickey also can step up their game I can see MacDonald let free to test free agency waters
Great post, totally agree. There are a handful of defenceman on the team or in the system that can be AT or ABOVE the level of AMAC. Why Commit to the one who is injury prone and most expensive when the others are cheaper and cost controlled and potentially better? The first 40 games next season will play a huge part in this.

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08-04-2013, 05:10 AM
  #29
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i think 5 years at 2.5m per, is about the best we should offer him. he is a solid little warrior, but he would be a bottom pairing guy on a good team.

my feeling is that Hammer and Vis are tops. AMac and Strait should be #'s 3 and 4. if we were paying AMac $4 in two years, we will regret it.

IF he picks up his offensive game (FWIW,i think he can), and looks like he could be a 30-35 point a year type, then i would offer him just under Hammer money. 5 years @ 3.25

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08-04-2013, 07:21 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by duster19 View Post
If we keep resigning all these mediocre dman, where does the influx come from? How does our below average d get any better?
MacDonald and Hamonic came in and played their way onto the first pairing.

Maybe instead of penciling the top defensive prospects, into MacDonald's roster spot, the isles should let those players out performAMac and take his spot.

Which young D has been signed to a deal, that cannot be moved? Strait's $600,000+? Hickey's $650,000 ?
Vis and Carkner each have two yrs left on their contracts.

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08-04-2013, 06:44 PM
  #31
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A Mac is mediocre at best. I give him credit for playing as hard as he can for us but I agree with the person that said he's a second line pairing defensman. With guys like Pedan, Rienhart, and Mayfield waiting in the wings I would let him go after the year..

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08-04-2013, 07:32 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
MacDonald and Hamonic came in and played their way onto the first pairing.

Maybe instead of penciling the top defensive prospects, into MacDonald's roster spot, the isles should let those players out performAMac and take his spot.

Which young D has been signed to a deal, that cannot be moved? Strait's $600,000+? Hickey's $650,000 ?
Vis and Carkner each have two yrs left on their contracts.
Hamonic is great, I think he is a legit top pairing dman. I think amac is slow and small. That role beside hamonic needs to be a top flight dman. He is also very limited offensively.

You said prospects...I said influx. I'm not waiting 2-3 years for a prospect finally take a #1 role. If it even happen..

I suppose you can deal those guys, but lets be real...both those guys were claimed off waivers. I doubt people will be really interested in them much, especially on 1 way deals

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08-05-2013, 01:47 AM
  #33
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i hope they re-sign him for 3-4 years for around 3 million.

the "what have you done for me lately" attitude here is astounding.

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08-05-2013, 03:14 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
MacDonald and Hamonic came in and played their way onto the first pairing.

Maybe instead of penciling the top defensive prospects, into MacDonald's roster spot, the isles should let those players out performAMac and take his spot.

Which young D has been signed to a deal, that cannot be moved? Strait's $600,000+? Hickey's $650,000 ?
Vis and Carkner each have two yrs left on their contracts.
THEY CAN DO THAT?????

What if it's a player we drafted? What if he has a suuuuper rating among posters? Does he still have to make the team better than AMac does? And if AMac is third best, if someone is suuuper enough, does that mean we have to trade him and not let him be fourth best?

I'm just enjoying summer lynchings. AMac had a small dry spell but has been Mr.Reliable and has a role as a defensive cog with a complimentary player. And I don't think Hamonic is the best pairing for him though they've got great chemistry.


Oh, and AMac won't ever see $4M a year. Or $3M. He's a defensive defenseman, a vital cog in a defensive lineup that does not get big bucks unless they're huge and hit hard. I would count on his top pay being $2.5M before he ends his career on LI.

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08-05-2013, 04:58 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
THEY CAN DO THAT?????

What if it's a player we drafted? What if he has a suuuuper rating among posters? Does he still have to make the team better than AMac does? And if AMac is third best, if someone is suuuper enough, does that mean we have to trade him and not let him be fourth best?

I'm just enjoying summer lynchings. AMac had a small dry spell but has been Mr.Reliable and has a role as a defensive cog with a complimentary player. And I don't think Hamonic is the best pairing for him though they've got great chemistry.


Oh, and AMac won't ever see $4M a year. Or $3M. He's a defensive defenseman, a vital cog in a defensive lineup that does not get big bucks unless they're huge and hit hard. I would count on his top pay being $2.5M before he ends his career on LI.
We won't know for sure until next year but I would be shocked if he didn't get over $3m per. The guy eats minutes, plays on the PP and was on the first pairing D of an up and coming playoff team. He shouldn't be, but he is. That will be attractive to a team looking for. Top 4 Dman.

Problem with AMac is that the Isles really need his experience for one extra year. There's a whole lot of talent coming up but it will take some time to develop and shake out as to which guys are legit NHLers and who fizzles. I doubt the FO wants AMac for a long term deal but, at the same time, losing him for 14' will be a short term setback.

JMO, I think - like in the Streit situation, the Isles will get priced out so it will be moot anyway. We'll probably see Garth make a token offer in the area where he knows it will get rejected in order to save face and show respect to a guy who deserves it.

I highly doubt AMac is an Islander after this year.

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08-05-2013, 06:30 AM
  #36
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We won't know for sure until next year but I would be shocked if he didn't get over $3m per. The guy eats minutes, plays on the PP and was on the first pairing D of an up and coming playoff team. He shouldn't be, but he is. That will be attractive to a team looking for. Top 4 Dman.

Problem with AMac is that the Isles really need his experience for one extra year. There's a whole lot of talent coming up but it will take some time to develop and shake out as to which guys are legit NHLers and who fizzles. I doubt the FO wants AMac for a long term deal but, at the same time, losing him for 14' will be a short term setback.

JMO, I think - like in the Streit situation, the Isles will get priced out so it will be moot anyway. We'll probably see Garth make a token offer in the area where he knows it will get rejected in order to save face and show respect to a guy who deserves it.

I highly doubt AMac is an Islander after this year.
I agree with this. I have no doubt they would want him back but I think his agent will be telling him to go to free agency. He will get more $$$ on the open market unless he has a set back this season.

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08-05-2013, 10:27 AM
  #37
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i hope they re-sign him for 3-4 years for around 3 million.

the "what have you done for me lately" attitude here is astounding.
I know it's not a complete stat but A-Mac was a plus defenseman playing top line minutes on bad Isles teams. Him and Hamonic were terrible early this season for whatever reason (I still have no idea why they were off their game), which is why everyone is down on him now.

I'm not giving him an extension now but let's see how this season plays out. Dude puts in 20 minutes per game against top competition while making close to league minimum without complaining. Maybe Cappy should slot him down a pairing where he has easier competition but you could do a lot worse.

Also, let's reserve the title "injury prone" for other guys. A-Mac missed seven regular season games in the last two years and left the playoffs after blocking a Malkin shot. I'm not worried about him re-injuring any past injuries.

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08-05-2013, 11:14 AM
  #38
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AMac is valuable 2nd-pairing D man on a competitive team. He's miscast on this team playing first-pairing minutes, which exposes his deficiencies. I think he'll re-sign and at a reasonable rate, his last contract and Snow's track record with contracts demonstrates such. Eventually, when in the appropriate role (2nd pairing), AMac will thrive.

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08-05-2013, 12:20 PM
  #39
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You betcha. MacDonald is clearly not a top pairing guy, but he is also not the bottom pairing guy some of you are making him out to be. He did not have a great season (at least his first half was not great) but I think the same could be said of Hamonic (who started out very slow).

MacDonald is not overly physical, he can get injured a lot, and he lacks high end offensive skills. But, he reads the play very well defensively, makes good decisions with and without the puck, and comes to play every single shift. And, despite the fact that he is not a bruiser there is a quite grit to his game and he carries the puck well.

Suggesting that guys who are not even in the NHL right now (like Reinhart) and who may take 3 or 4 years to get to MacDonald's current level, make MacDonald a throw away is silly.

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08-05-2013, 01:31 PM
  #40
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You betcha. MacDonald is clearly not a top pairing guy, but he is also not the bottom pairing guy some of you are making him out to be. He did not have a great season (at least his first half was not great) but I think the same could be said of Hamonic (who started out very slow).

MacDonald is not overly physical, he can get injured a lot, and he lacks high end offensive skills. But, he reads the play very well defensively, makes good decisions with and without the puck, and comes to play every single shift. And, despite the fact that he is not a bruiser there is a quite grit to his game and he carries the puck well.

Suggesting that guys who are not even in the NHL right now (like Reinhart) and who may take 3 or 4 years to get to MacDonald's current level, make MacDonald a throw away is silly.
I think MacDonald's future here will depend solely on Calvin de Haan's 2013-14 season. If de Haan stays healthy and excels, AMac is a goner. If he deals with another injury, AMac will be re-signed. Simple as that. My 2014-15 defense projections would probably look like this:

MacDonald/de Haan - Hamonic
Reinhart - Visnovsky
Strait - Donovan
7/8: Hickey/Carkner

...with Pulock being groomed in the AHL to replace Visnovsky's spot in '15-16.

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08-05-2013, 01:39 PM
  #41
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To be honest, I wouldn't have been surprised if A-Mac was one of the pieces going the other way in a big trade for a young star, due to his cap hit and ability to play top four minutes, but obviously that hasn't happened.

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08-05-2013, 02:58 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think MacDonald's future here will depend solely on Calvin de Haan's 2013-14 season. If de Haan stays healthy and excels, AMac is a goner. If he deals with another injury, AMac will be re-signed. Simple as that. My 2014-15 defense projections would probably look like this:

MacDonald/de Haan - Hamonic
Reinhart - Visnovsky
Strait - Donovan
7/8: Hickey/Carkner

...with Pulock being groomed in the AHL to replace Visnovsky's spot in '15-16.
In the unlikely even that de Haan steps in for regular minutes this year, he is not going to wind up on the top pairing. He'll maybe wind up on the bottom pairing.

He is certainly not a replacement for MacDonald.

I'm not down with this idea of viewing productive vets as expendable because we have some shiny prospect.

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08-05-2013, 03:32 PM
  #43
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In the unlikely even that de Haan steps in for regular minutes this year, he is not going to wind up on the top pairing. He'll maybe wind up on the bottom pairing.

He is certainly not a replacement for MacDonald.

I'm not down with this idea of viewing productive vets as expendable because we have some shiny prospect.
I don't think he'll step in there immediately, but de Haan's future here is next to Hamonic. If de Haan can a) stay on the ice and b) play at the level I think he's capable of playing at, MacDonald will pretty quickly become expendable. If both of those things happen, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him end the year on Hamonic's pairing.

Either way, de Haan is probably the furthest thing we have from "shiny".

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08-05-2013, 04:17 PM
  #44
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I don't think he'll step in there immediately, but de Haan's future here is next to Hamonic. If de Haan can a) stay on the ice and b) play at the level I think he's capable of playing at, MacDonald will pretty quickly become expendable. If both of those things happen, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him end the year on Hamonic's pairing.

Either way, de Haan is probably the furthest thing we have from "shiny".
How can you project de Haan like that? He has played like one game in the NHL and you are talking about him going from the IR in the AHL to our top pairing, making our #3 dman expendable, etc.

No offense my friend, but major leaps here in your post.

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08-05-2013, 04:51 PM
  #45
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I don't think he'll step in there immediately, but de Haan's future here is next to Hamonic. If de Haan can a) stay on the ice and b) play at the level I think he's capable of playing at, MacDonald will pretty quickly become expendable. If both of those things happen, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him end the year on Hamonic's pairing.

Either way, de Haan is probably the furthest thing we have from "shiny".
What are the odds you would give on that happening, as opposed to the injuries eating the rest of his career up?

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08-05-2013, 06:30 PM
  #46
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You would give me stastny? Where do I sign?
So on a team short on defense you would trade our most steady dman for an under performing center when center happens to be our deepest position in the organization. Makes sense

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08-05-2013, 06:34 PM
  #47
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So on a team short on defense you would trade our most steady dman for an under performing center when center happens to be our deepest position in the organization. Makes sense
How is center our deepest position? I am not condoning a stasny trade, but we really don't have a 2nd line center...and we're hoping retread in regin or a rookie can hold their own. That's also assuming czikas continues strong play, which can be tough for 2nd yr players

I would also disagree amac is our most consistent dman....

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08-06-2013, 06:41 AM
  #48
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AMAC will be 27 this upcoming season. That doesn't make him a dinosaur-but he is not a "young" player either.
I agree for a team to be successful all players should be between 18 and 21. This way they can't legally get into a bar.


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08-06-2013, 06:54 AM
  #49
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How is center our deepest position? I am not condoning a stasny trade, but we really don't have a 2nd line center...and we're hoping retread in regin or a rookie can hold their own. That's also assuming czikas continues strong play, which can be tough for 2nd yr players

I would also disagree amac is our most consistent dman....
An NHL team has 4 center slots. The Islanders have 3 because Tavares is a given on the first line. I'm guessing if they were to trade MacDonald for Statsny that he would not be a 4th line player so Cizikas is a moot point. Unless there is a second trade Nielsen is getting one of the other two center roles. That leaves one open center position for Statsny long term. The Islanders top two prospects are both centers, Strome and Nelson, Bailey although comfortable at the wing now is a capable center who could fill in short term, they have Regin signed then for short term call ups / prospects the Islanders have Anders Lee and Johan Sundstrom.

That gives the Islanders 9 players capable of playing NHL minutes at the center position this season and all but Regin have long term potential on the roster.

As far as MacDonald if you dont want to consider him the most consistent on the blue line thats fine but he does play well over 20 minutes a night against the other teams best players. Crosby, Ovechkin, Staal, Gaborik, Jagr, Nash, Giroux all these guys are in our division now. I would feel better with Strome, Nelson, Bailey, Lee or Regin eating up 2nd / 3rd line minutes than to replace MacDonald with deHaan, Hickey, Mayfield, Pokka or Ness.

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08-06-2013, 08:49 AM
  #50
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How can you project de Haan like that? He has played like one game in the NHL and you are talking about him going from the IR in the AHL to our top pairing, making our #3 dman expendable, etc.

No offense my friend, but major leaps here in your post.
I'm not saying it's likely, I honestly don't expect him to stay healthy at this point, but if he does I fully expect him to outplay MacDonald. He's probably our 2nd best defensive prospect outside of Reinhart, IMO. The way he's played with Hamonic in the past(WJC and AHL) is the reason he'll be on that top pairing. They have complimented each other extremely well in the past.

I like MacDonald. He's a solid minutes eater who can slot in anywhere and be effective. That said I don't think anyone expects him to be on our top pairing that much longer. If I had to pick anyone from within our system to eventually take that spot, it would be de Haan. Reinhart is probably the only other option, but IMO his future is next to Pulock, most likely on the 2nd pairing. I think Reinhart will at some point play next to Visnovsky on that 2nd pairing for at least one season, and then Pulock will eventually replace Vis when his contract expires.

Perhaps you think it's extremely unlikely because of de Haan's injury history, and you're probably right, but if you don't think he'll have a shot at that level even if he's healthy the entire year, then I think you are underrating de Haan as a prospect. IMO, he has Ryan McDonagh written all over him.

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