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Old
09-19-2013, 12:21 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by tomgilbertfan View Post
Real hard to prove you're a good route runner when you've played 9 snaps on offense.
There is plenty of tape of him from college and there is this thing they do during the week called practice.

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09-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #427
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That's a horribly negative view on the Vikings offense. I don't think they are all brilliant, but Jennings and Rudolph are very good players and Patterson wasn't a first round pick by accident.
They are good players but they are hardly weapons.

Just because Patterson was drafted in the 1st rd doesn't mean he should have been and he is a questionable route runner and has not displayed the willingness to be strong off the line and his mechanics catching a football left a lot to be desired coming out of Tennessee.

Just as you say he wasn't a 1st rd pick by accident I say it isn't an accident that he isn't seeing the field for very long stretches at a time.

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09-19-2013, 12:39 PM
  #428
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All I've heard about Patterson is that he needs to be on the field more, including the coaching staff. Didn't see a lot of problems with the routes in the pre-season. And there should be plays drawn up to use his speed and agility.

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09-19-2013, 12:52 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
All I've heard about Patterson is that he needs to be on the field more, including the coaching staff. Didn't see a lot of problems with the routes in the pre-season. And there should be plays drawn up to use his speed and agility.
And yet he hasn't been on the field more. They can say whatever they want to say about him but when they keep him on the sidelines in close games that speaks louder than any statement they make to a reporter.

I imagine he will get more plays against Cleveland in a game that should be fairly safe for the Vikings and at home.

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09-19-2013, 01:09 PM
  #430
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"We're going to get that rectified," Frazier said Monday when asked about Patterson's playing time. "He definitely deserves to be on the field more. He's shown that in the few snaps he's gotten in these first two ball games.

"Hopefully, everything being equal, that should not be a part of the conversation next week. We want to get him on the field. He's one of our explosive players for sure. We see what he does when he gets the ball in his hands. We've got to find a way to get him on the field."
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Z..._mystery091613

Doesn't exactly sound like a coaching staff decision as much as a Musgrave decision.

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09-19-2013, 03:26 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
It is a new management group in Cleveland so I am not going to hold previous drafts against these guys.

They also don't need to find a hidden gem, they can get a very solid QB in the teens of the 1st rd. If they don't think he will be available at that point then they take that QB in the top 5 and come back in the middle of the 1st and grab the OT like Richardson who should be available there.

It all depends where they end up with that 1st pick and who is ahead of them when it comes to that 2nd first rd pick. Remember, not every team is going to target a QB, the Browns are likely to have a choice between Boyd and perhaps Hundley if he declares. If it was me I take the QB 1st unless you are in position to get Matthews. Either way they have options and will get a shot at a potential franchise QB out of this whether it be in the top 5 or in the top 15. Most sites think that Colts pick will be in the top 12 and I tend to agree with that placement.

I guess the way to look at it is this, Matthews is a franchise LT, why pass on him when you will have available to you a few QBs who are similar in ability just a little bit later. Although I like Tiny Richardson a whole bunch he is not Jake Matthews and how in the hell does one pass on a Mattews anyways? Talk about an incredible run for one family to just keep turning out NFL players.

If they really like Bridgewater that much they can put together a package including one of the 1st rd picks to get the 1 away from Jacksonville and I would think Jacksonville would listen and take it. That was really the point that Schefter was getting at, the options now open to Cleveland to get the QB they want are many. Hell, they even have the ability now to get a team to listen to trade options for a current starter in the NFL, don't know who that would be right now but we will see by the end of the year there will be some options available there as well. There also a couple of back ups in the league right now who could be trade bait for teams that are good but need to improve such as Mallet or Cousins.
Joe Thomas is already probably a top 5 LT in the league. It's not a need for them. They need QB and WR.

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Old
09-19-2013, 03:44 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Joe Thomas is already probably a top 5 LT in the league. It's not a need for them. They need QB and WR.
Duh on me, I forgot they had Thomas.

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Old
09-19-2013, 03:58 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Uberdachen View Post
The Vikings don't go near undefeated with a top quarterback, but I don't know how you can argue that with a decent QB they'd be sitting at 2-0 right now. Both games were gimmes regifted by Ponder.
When did I argue that they wouldn't be 2-0? I was pointing out team deficiencies that would prevent this team from being undefeated. The Vikings have flaws up and down the lineup. Even with an elite QB, we're no match for Seattle.

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Old
09-19-2013, 04:06 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
When did I argue that they wouldn't be 2-0? I was pointing out team deficiencies that would prevent this team from being undefeated. The Vikings have flaws up and down the lineup. Even with an elite QB, we're no match for Seattle.
I'm not as sold on Seattle as many are, in fact, I'm not as sold on Russel Wilson just yet. They have their flaws as well.

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09-19-2013, 04:26 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
I'm not as sold on Seattle as many are, in fact, I'm not as sold on Russel Wilson just yet. They have their flaws as well.
I'm sold on them on the defensive side but offensively they are ugly, ugly and ugly. The defense is so solid it hides the offensive problems by getting them great field position and extra possesions. They haven't put their best D on the field yet either, they still have Clemons, Browner and Irving coming back.

Harvin will help but even with him added they are still vulnerable if teams start figuring out a way to beat Sherman and Browner or can establish any sort of a running game against them.

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09-19-2013, 04:57 PM
  #436
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I'm not as sold on Seattle as many are, in fact, I'm not as sold on Russel Wilson just yet. They have their flaws as well.
My point is...they blow us out of the water.

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09-19-2013, 09:57 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
My point is...they blow us out of the water.
Yes if Ponder plays bad they will blow us up, this whole theory is based on there being a high caliber QB on our team.

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09-19-2013, 09:59 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Yes if Ponder plays bad they will blow us up, this whole theory is based on there being a high caliber QB on our team.
No... even with an elite QB, the Vikings are not better than Seattle... why don't you understand that's exactly what I'm saying?

You severely overrate the Vikes in other areas than QB.

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09-19-2013, 11:03 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
No... even with an elite QB, the Vikings are not better than Seattle... why don't you understand that's exactly what I'm saying?

You severely overrate the Vikes in other areas than QB.
Their defense has looked stellar and their offense has been decent, with an Elite QB its a match up that can go either way.

Seattle is the hot team right now, but we've seen that every week in the NFL.

elite qb on the Vikes makes that a very close game, hell we were done and sunk last year with 4 games left... All i'm saying is an elite QB would make this team dangerous.

Stack our offensive weapons (line, RB, WR, TE) vs the other teams, we have a team that could be very very dangerous. Even if our D doesn't play great, with a elite QB we'd be putting up 30+ points a game with some long drives to eat up the clock.

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09-19-2013, 11:05 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Their defense has looked stellar and their offense has been decent, with an Elite QB its a match up that can go either way.

Seattle is the hot team right now, but we've seen that every week in the NFL.

elite qb on the Vikes makes that a very close game, hell we were done and sunk last year with 4 games left... All i'm saying is an elite QB would make this team dangerous.

Stack our offensive weapons (line, RB, WR, TE) vs the other teams, we have a team that could be very very dangerous. Even if our D doesn't play great, with a elite QB we'd be putting up 30+ points a game with some long drives to eat up the clock.
Not sure how you can say that when Detroit was slicing up that defense at will! Chicago did early as well, and then when the game was on the line? It was the defense that gave up the game winning drive on a horrible mistake in the secondary.

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Old
09-19-2013, 11:11 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Their defense has looked stellar and their offense has been decent, with an Elite QB its a match up that can go either way.

Seattle is the hot team right now, but we've seen that every week in the NFL.

elite qb on the Vikes makes that a very close game, hell we were done and sunk last year with 4 games left... All i'm saying is an elite QB would make this team dangerous.

Stack our offensive weapons (line, RB, WR, TE) vs the other teams, we have a team that could be very very dangerous. Even if our D doesn't play great, with a elite QB we'd be putting up 30+ points a game with some long drives to eat up the clock.
How can you possibly say that with a straight face? Our D is garbage! Detroit tore it to pieces and Chicago was doing a pretty good job tearing it apart as well. Stellar? What? Stellar? Stellar? What? Playoffs? What? Stellar?


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09-19-2013, 11:51 PM
  #442
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Talking about Seahawks defense in looking seller...

Yes vikes D was less than desired, but given how many 3 and outs we have and how many sustained drives the opponents have you have to expect a defense that is going to suck, it's important to give those guys time to rest, not send them back in for a 6 minute drive after a 20 second limp dick possession.

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09-20-2013, 01:02 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Their defense has looked stellar and their offense has been decent, with an Elite QB its a match up that can go either way.

Seattle is the hot team right now, but we've seen that every week in the NFL.

elite qb on the Vikes makes that a very close game, hell we were done and sunk last year with 4 games left... All i'm saying is an elite QB would make this team dangerous.

Stack our offensive weapons (line, RB, WR, TE) vs the other teams, we have a team that could be very very dangerous. Even if our D doesn't play great, with a elite QB we'd be putting up 30+ points a game with some long drives to eat up the clock.
Ok, lets look at the NFC North

Vikings
WR Jennings WR Simpson WR Patterson TE Rudolph RB Peterson
Packers
WR Cobb WR Nelson WR Jones TE Finley RB Lacy
Lions
WR Johnson WR Burleson WR Broyles TE Pettigrew RB Bush
Bears
WR Marshal WR Jeffrey WR Bennet TE Bennet RB Forte

Now tell me on what other team would Jennings be a #1? What other team would Simpson be a #2?
Now out to the 3rd receiver. Where does an unproven Patterson fit?
Now TE? Rudolph does not start on any of the other north teams.

The Vikings got good servicable players, they did not get weapons. Patterson may become one shortly, but he isn't right now. Jennings is now just a nice possession receiver but his "weapon" days were left behind in GB several years ago. Simpson is just a journey man wide out who will get jobs on teams that are short at the position while they look for a better option. Rudolph is just a solid TE, does a lot well but doesn't wow anyone with what he does either.

I hope that helps you realize the difference between what you call "weapons" and what other teams actuall have as "weapons"

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09-20-2013, 01:17 AM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
Now TE? Rudolph does not start on any of the other north teams.
WRONG, Rudolph is probably the best TE in the division

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Old
09-20-2013, 01:38 AM
  #445
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WRONG, Rudolph is probably the best TE in the division
He struggles to get open though.

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Old
09-20-2013, 01:58 AM
  #446
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
He struggles to get open though.
I'm not saying he's great but Pettigrew, Bennett, and Finley are really nothing special and Rudolph has by far the worst QB of the bunch.

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09-20-2013, 04:02 AM
  #447
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I'm not saying he's great but Pettigrew, Bennett, and Finley are really nothing special and Rudolph has by far the worst QB of the bunch.
I agree that he CAN be the best TE of the bunch, he has more raw talent, but it hasn't been proven yet and as I said, he struggles to get open on a regular basis.

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09-20-2013, 07:56 AM
  #448
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Rudolph is a top-10 TE in the league. There is a reason that he was voted to the Pro Bowl last year. I agree he can still become better and likely will with a better quarterback, but I can't see how you can argue that he isn't at least a top-15 guy.

Jennings is a good #2 WR. Simpson is a #3, while Patterson right now is a #4 with the hopeful potential to develop into a #1 or #2.

Our division has some really strong WR depth. Megatron and Marshall are both top-5 if not top-3 receivers in the league. Nelson + Cobb are both top-20 guys but they're both on the same team so that is a problem.

Our division is just strong this year. Stack up against, say, the AFC South and you have Wayne and the Colts and Johnson and the Texans - beyond that is crickets.

Not many teams have #1WRs. The Vikings are in a better position that most when it comes to that position.

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09-20-2013, 08:07 AM
  #449
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Not to mention every one of those receivers are made better by their QB, Rodgers can hit anyone. Also the big thing here is we have the top offensive line in our division and by a long long margin the best runningback.

Peterson is what tips the scale on offense and he would strike fear into any defense if he had a QB who could make routine throws into 1 on 1 coverage.

Guys think back to what Favre did with an unproven Harvin (made him bloom into a stud) and Shianc (rudolph is miles better) Every elite WR was helped by the QB, most good WR are helped by the QB.

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09-20-2013, 08:47 AM
  #450
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Favre also made Rice look brilliant.

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