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09-23-2013, 01:19 PM
  #576
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Is Frazier fired yet?
No, just exiled to London for the week.

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09-23-2013, 01:21 PM
  #577
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An elite QB couldn't get an extra TD per game? Really?

Browns game, 4th quarter. Vikings lead 30-24. They go 3-and-out twice. Browns drive down the field and get the TD. Ponder and company do nothing and lose the game 31-30.

Bears game, 4th quarter. Teams are tied 24-24. The Vikings defense forced two turnovers, both of which resulted in field goals. Cutler and the Bears get the TD and win 31-30.

Lions game, 4th quarter. Vikings are down 27-24. Ponder fumbles the bad handoff to AP. Detroit recovers, drives down the field for a TD. Next possession, Ponder throws three incomplete passes then punt. Next possession, Ponder throws an interception. Vikings lose 34-24.

Three games, zero TD's in the fourth quarter. Defense was forcing turnovers, offense wasn't generating anything.

Look, I know that the defense is a big problem and so is the offensive line. But an elite QB should be able to sustain drives and chew time off the clock with a lead. Especially with AP.

There's a lot that needs to be fixed with the team, but if you swap out Ponder for an above-average QB, this team is likely 2-1 at the least.
I missed where anyone was making an argument for Ponder over a better QB.

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09-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
An elite QB couldn't get an extra TD per game? Really?

Browns game, 4th quarter. Vikings lead 30-24. They go 3-and-out twice. Browns drive down the field and get the TD. Ponder and company do nothing and lose the game 31-30.

Bears game, 4th quarter. Teams are tied 24-24. The Vikings defense forced two turnovers, both of which resulted in field goals. Cutler and the Bears get the TD and win 31-30.

Lions game, 4th quarter. Vikings are down 27-24. Ponder fumbles the bad handoff to AP. Detroit recovers, drives down the field for a TD. Next possession, Ponder throws three incomplete passes then punt. Next possession, Ponder throws an interception. Vikings lose 34-24.

Three games, zero TD's in the fourth quarter. Defense was forcing turnovers, offense wasn't generating anything.

Look, I know that the defense is a big problem and so is the offensive line. But an elite QB should be able to sustain drives and chew time off the clock with a lead. Especially with AP.

There's a lot that needs to be fixed with the team, but if you swap out Ponder for an above-average QB, this team is likely 2-1 at the least.
I think the word that was used was "undefeated" that we were discussing the other day...as in the Vikings would have an undefeated season. Hell no.

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09-23-2013, 02:17 PM
  #579
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My response was about an elite QB solving the problems for the Vikings. Clearly an elite QB can't overcome huge problems on defense or special teams, but the Vikes have played three winnable games so far and a quality QB could easily have helped win all three. Not to mention giving the defense a rest.

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09-23-2013, 02:26 PM
  #580
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My response was about an elite QB solving the problems for the Vikings. Clearly an elite QB can't overcome huge problems on defense or special teams, but the Vikes have played three winnable games so far and a quality QB could easily have helped win all three. Not to mention giving the defense a rest.
Nobody said otherwise. As I said, the discussion the other day was about this team being flawed even with an elite qb, thus the claim that an elite qb would make the Vikes unbeatable was highly inaccurate.

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09-23-2013, 02:36 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
An elite QB couldn't get an extra TD per game? Really?

Browns game, 4th quarter. Vikings lead 30-24. They go 3-and-out twice. Browns drive down the field and get the TD. Ponder and company do nothing and lose the game 31-30.

Bears game, 4th quarter. Teams are tied 24-24. The Vikings defense forced two turnovers, both of which resulted in field goals. Cutler and the Bears get the TD and win 31-30.

Lions game, 4th quarter. Vikings are down 27-24. Ponder fumbles the bad handoff to AP. Detroit recovers, drives down the field for a TD. Next possession, Ponder throws three incomplete passes then punt. Next possession, Ponder throws an interception. Vikings lose 34-24.

Three games, zero TD's in the fourth quarter. Defense was forcing turnovers, offense wasn't generating anything.

Look, I know that the defense is a big problem and so is the offensive line. But an elite QB should be able to sustain drives and chew time off the clock with a lead. Especially with AP.

There's a lot that needs to be fixed with the team, but if you swap out Ponder for an above-average QB, this team is likely 2-1 at the least.
One of those field goals had nothing to do with Ponder, that was terrible coaching.

No other team would line up in a full run formation and try to run it in from 4yds out. The only time teams try to run it in from there they send 4/5 out wide and run a draw.

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09-23-2013, 03:29 PM
  #582
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I could easily see us being 2-1 or 3-0 at this point if we had an elite QB.

But even an elite QB needs the defense to grow a pair and step up and make a damn stop now and again.

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09-23-2013, 03:56 PM
  #583
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Right, they wouldn't be a Superbowl favorite. But they'd be fighting for a playoff spot.

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09-23-2013, 03:58 PM
  #584
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I could easily see us being 2-1 or 3-0 at this point if we had an elite QB.

But even an elite QB needs the defense to grow a pair and step up and make a damn stop now and again.
To be fair, without looking, I would say that our defense is on the field twice as long as our opponents. I'd even wager a few beers on that.

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09-23-2013, 04:02 PM
  #585
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The defense played good in the second half - real good. The first half they were a mess. Although I have no idea what Harrison Smith was thinking on that last TD.

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09-23-2013, 04:05 PM
  #586
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Yeah, except our defense is bad from the first snap. They struggle to get themselves off the field. Hard to put ALL the blame on the offense. With the best qb in the league..we're 10-6 at BEST. That's if the qb could even survive the season given the horrid offensive line play.

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09-23-2013, 04:07 PM
  #587
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The defense played good in the second half - real good. The first half they were a mess. Although I have no idea what Harrison Smith was thinking on that last TD.
Uhh...you're kidding right? The defense had moments here and there, but never were they "real good"... We got lucky Hoyer had a couple Ponder like throws in the second half on wide open receivers against our horrible secondary to give them a 3 and out.

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09-23-2013, 04:11 PM
  #588
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Defense had three interceptions. I'd say they were real good on those three plays.

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09-23-2013, 04:15 PM
  #589
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Defense had three interceptions. I'd say they were real good on those three plays.
You did see one of those picks was an under thrown floater towards nobody because his receiver was 20 yards further down field...right? I call that cleveland being cleveland more than the defense being good.

Anyone throwing a floater to nowhere against a zone defense shouldn't expect anything different.

Funny how everyone blames ponder for his mistakes... Rightfully so in many cases, but if it's the opposing qb, it must be the defense making a play. In many cases it's really not this year.

Detroit's problems in week one were self induced. Many of Cleveland's were as well. I will say the defense did play well most of the second half vs Chicago though...huge mistake not calling the timeout on the game winning touchdown though. Misaligned defense, they recognized it and just went with it. Bad coaching every game.


Last edited by TaLoN: 09-23-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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09-23-2013, 04:27 PM
  #590
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Why isn't Xavier Rhodes getting some props?? That kid can flat out play.

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09-23-2013, 04:37 PM
  #591
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Why isn't Xavier Rhodes getting some props?? That kid can flat out play.
Because the Browns were picking on Marcus Sherels and Josh Robinson and our linebackers.

Rhodes apparently can only play the left side, so when Cook went down and Jefferson, we were sunk on the right. Rhodes primarily played when we went to nickle, sliding Josh Robinson to the nickle spot as he took the left corner spot. He spent a lot of time on the sidelines unfortunately.

Why he wasn't playing primary left corner I do not know. Most in my section were complaining about that through the game.

Ultimately hard to give anyone props on a unit that looks so bad. That was seriously the worst secondary I've seen in a vikes game, and I've been a season ticket holder for a LONG TIME! I feel even worse for Harrison Smith...he plays his heart out but the rest of the unit looks so lost and confused for the most part!

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09-23-2013, 04:40 PM
  #592
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Right, they wouldn't be a Superbowl favorite. But they'd be fighting for a playoff spot.
In other words they would be an average football team with an elite QB and staring at being in the 8-10 win category along with most of the rest of the teams in the NFL.

It took 2+ pages but you actually are agreeing with what the rest of have been saying all along (but wildfan who will still say they would be the greatest team in the history of the NFL).

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09-23-2013, 04:44 PM
  #593
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Sherls played well late in the game, like a lesser Winfield.

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09-23-2013, 04:48 PM
  #594
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Sherls played well late in the game, like a lesser Winfield.
If you call giving the receiver all the yards on the route, not even making an attempt to make a play before the ball arrives and making a tackle...sure.

I call that poor corner play, never defending a pass myself. He was eaten alive out there. Hey, at least he tackled his guy after he let him catch it.

Winfield could actually cover someone too though, so no...not even close to Winfield.

Sherls is a special teamer who barely made the team, and did so because of his return skills only. You don't want him pushed into service as a corner. He sucks horribly!

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09-23-2013, 05:49 PM
  #595
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Uhh...you're kidding right? The defense had moments here and there, but never were they "real good"... We got lucky Hoyer had a couple Ponder like throws in the second half on wide open receivers against our horrible secondary to give them a 3 and out.
Cleveland didn't score a point til that last - unfortunately terribly last - moment when Smith got burned. So, yeah, they shut them out pretty much completely and in the second half the loss there stands with the offense being held to a damn field goal.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330922016

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09-23-2013, 07:08 PM
  #596
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Yeah...cause points tell the whole story of how things happen...

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09-23-2013, 07:53 PM
  #597
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If you call giving the receiver all the yards on the route, not even making an attempt to make a play before the ball arrives and making a tackle...sure.

I call that poor corner play, never defending a pass myself. He was eaten alive out there. Hey, at least he tackled his guy after he let him catch it.

Winfield could actually cover someone too though, so no...not even close to Winfield.

Sherls is a special teamer who barely made the team, and did so because of his return skills only. You don't want him pushed into service as a corner. He sucks horribly!
Sherls had a bad start but he did not have a bad game.

Quote:
When he wasnít busy being the last line of defense against a fake punt, cornerback Marcus Sherels (+4.9) found himself as part of the base defense as A.J. Jefferson was forced from the game early through injury. Given his lack of experience with the first team defense ó he had yet to play a snap with them through the first two games of the season ó you canít blame the Browns for thinking it was a good idea to go after him.

When the game was complete, Sherels had seen 18 passes thrown into his coverage. Of those 18, however, he allowed just nine to be completed, going for a total of just 50 yards. Not a bad total when the opposing quarterback has went after you on 18 of his 54 drop backs. He added a pass breakup on 1st-and-10 with 5:12 left in the second quarter, but it was his ability to stay close to opposing receivers that really stood out.

Indeed, considering how good a day Josh Gordon had, itís worth noting that on throws into Sherels coverage, and there were eight of them, he came away with just four receptions for nineteen yards. The one negative on his day was his fumble as a punt returner, which he recovered himself, but for a player who didnít expect to see that much of a workload, it was a very impressive showing.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...le-min-week-3/

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09-23-2013, 07:57 PM
  #598
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Yeah I thought he played great. Jefferson was absolutely terrible.

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09-23-2013, 08:04 PM
  #599
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ESPN 1500 poster for this week is pretty great.


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09-23-2013, 08:13 PM
  #600
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The issue isn't just Ponder. It's easy to say the issue is QB and we 'should' win those games. But Peterson had some costly fumbles, the defense (especially the middle of the defense) is leaky as hell and our offensive and defensive line are a joke. While there is no doubt Minnesota NEEDS a QB they need a hellovalot more like; two more linebackers, another cornerback, two guards, a nose tackle, and another safety at least.

Alan Williams, Leslie Frazier, Bill Musgrave and Jeff Davidson can all be fired at the end of the year.

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