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2014 — U.S. Roster Discussion (Part III)

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Old
08-05-2013, 07:39 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by STC View Post
LOL is that a joke? Kaner on the 3rd line? You're kidding right? Yea, let's put our best and most skilled forward on the 3rd line. Makes perfect sense.
lol...EVERY line in the Olympics on any given team are pretty much a first line. It's an all star game basically. Like it makes that much of a difference one way or another. You could argue that the line a thousand different people on here wants as a fourth line (Callaway-Backes-Brown) should actually be the first line, shutting whoever it is down that goes against them.

It's irrelevant. And as I stated already Kane has never surpassed 30 tallies in a season - Kessel, Kesler, Backes, Parise, Ryan, Paveslki, and Brown have ALL had more than 30 goals in a season and some of them have done so several times. And Kane has spent most of his career playing next to Toews, one of the best centermen in the game! Trying to say that Kane could be a third liner, depending on how the staff plans on molding these lines together, isn't that crazy at all.

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08-05-2013, 07:56 PM
  #27
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lol...EVERY line in the Olympics on any given team are pretty much a first line. It's an all star game basically. Like it makes that much of a difference one way or another. You could argue that the line a thousand different people on here wants as a fourth line (Callaway-Backes-Brown) should actually be the first line, shutting whoever it is down that goes against them.

It's irrelevant. And as I stated already Kane has never surpassed 30 tallies in a season - Kessel, Kesler, Backes, Parise, Ryan, Paveslki, and Brown have ALL had more than 30 goals in a season and some of them have done so several times. And Kane has spent most of his career playing next to Toews, one of the best centermen in the game! Trying to say that Kane could be a third liner, depending on how the staff plans on molding these lines together, isn't that crazy at all.

You're doing a whole lot of overthinking and overexplaining (idk if thats even a word...), the bottom line is Kane is our best, most talented forward. Just by principle he needs to be on the top line no matter what way u twist it.

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08-05-2013, 08:03 PM
  #28
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You're doing a whole lot of overthinking and overexplaining (idk if thats even a word...), the bottom line is Kane is our best, most talented forward. Just by principle he needs to be on the top line no matter what way u twist it.
I don't have to "twist" anything. The fact is who Kane plays against is as important as where/what line he plays on. And IMO, first, second and third are just words when it comes to the depth of lineups in tournaments like the Olympics.

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08-05-2013, 08:25 PM
  #29
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I don't have to "twist" anything. The fact is who Kane plays against is as important as where/what line he plays on. And IMO, first, second and third are just words when it comes to the depth of lineups in tournaments like the Olympics.

Other than Canada, and possibly Russia and Sweden, i dont know of any other teams that would have Kane-like talent on their 3rd line. Either way, why not just put him on on the top line then if they dont matter anyways? wouldnt it just make sense to put the best player on the top line?

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08-05-2013, 08:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
You're doing a whole lot of overthinking and overexplaining (idk if thats even a word...), the bottom line is Kane is our best, most talented forward. Just by principle he needs to be on the top line no matter what way u twist it.
Have to agree. History doesn't mean too much in these instances. Kane is still young and developing, and I'd call him our best forward (with him and Kessel as the far away standouts offensively). I can't see Kane anywhere but whatever is considered our #1 scoring line.

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08-05-2013, 10:22 PM
  #31
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Other than Canada, and possibly Russia and Sweden, i dont know of any other teams that would have Kane-like talent on their 3rd line. Either way, why not just put him on on the top line then if they dont matter anyways? wouldnt it just make sense to put the best player on the top line?
Wherever he plays doesn't bother me so much as he is playing. The powers that be will put him where they see best fit, which may very well be the first line.

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08-05-2013, 10:31 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Wherever he plays doesn't bother me so much as he is playing. The powers that be will put him where they see best fit, which may very well be the first line.
with as much talent as is on these rosters, I don't think there is a real #1 line. more like 1a and 1b. whoever is on the "second" line will probably end up getting just as many minutes as the "first" line.

I definitely like USA chances.

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08-05-2013, 11:45 PM
  #33
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You're doing a whole lot of overthinking and overexplaining (idk if thats even a word...), the bottom line is Kane is our best, most talented forward. Just by principle he needs to be on the top line no matter what way u twist it.
You're way off base as that's not the way these teams are constructed. Kane will be placed with the players they think will lead to the most success for that line and not because that would put him on the so-called number one line. It's about creating the best possible lines and not the best top line. It's the same reason Kane doesn't always play on the "top" line in Chicago. They will likely have three balanced lines that will be relied upon for offense and a "grind" line that will be charged with making things hell for the other team (welcome Backes, Brown, and Callahan).

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08-06-2013, 12:19 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
l

It's irrelevant. And as I stated already Kane has never surpassed 30 tallies in a season - Kessel, Kesler, Backes, Parise, Ryan, Paveslki, and Brown have ALL had more than 30 goals in a season and some of them have done so several times. And Kane has spent most of his career playing next to Toews, one of the best centermen in the game! Trying to say that Kane could be a third liner, depending on how the staff plans on molding these lines together, isn't that crazy at all.
Your ignorance about Kane becomes more and more apparent with each post. Kane didn't play with Toews this year or last year for that matter. Can't remember if it was 3 years or ago or 4 years ago that Kane and Toews were on the same line.

But, I guess if they only times you watched Kane all season were during games 5 and 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals or the close out game vs LA in the conf finals then yes, I could see why you would assume they play together.

you should really stop talking about Kane while you still have even a little credibility as a poster.

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08-06-2013, 12:41 AM
  #35
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Your ignorance about Kane becomes more and more apparent with each post. Kane didn't play with Toews this year or last year for that matter. Can't remember if it was 3 years or ago or 4 years ago that Kane and Toews were on the same line.

But, I guess if they only times you watched Kane all season were during games 5 and 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals or the close out game vs LA in the conf finals then yes, I could see why you would assume they play together.

you should really stop talking about Kane while you still have even a little credibility as a poster.
I'm ignorant about Kane? Toews isn't the only solid player on the Hawks. They were pretty well rounded from top to bottom, which is why they won 22 straight to start the season and eventually the Cup. Until Kane surpasses even 30 goals in a year sorry if I am not as terribly awe-struck as some people seem to be over him. One of the elite puck handlers in the league for sure but I want to see him start flirting with 40, 50 and maybe even 60 goal seasons before I anoint him our best player. I'd say atm we don't even have a best player, just very solid, competent overall system and group of talent from top to bottom.

As far as goal scorers, I believe Parise's 45 goal season is the most any of the American players have ever tallied in one season.


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08-06-2013, 12:47 AM
  #36
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I really don't like how people tend to glorify Kane as much as they do. While I'm a huge fan of Kane - particularly his handling skills - he has never even had one season in the NHL that he has scored more than 30 goals - 30 goals! All his other seasons at the NHL level never exceeded the 20s in total goal tallies. That is just not exceptional compared to guys like Roenick, Modano or Tkachuk.

Heck even John LeClair had three consectuive seasons with 50 goals (only American winger in the history of the game to accomplish that) and IMO today Kane is recognized more and hyped more than LeClair ever was. Of course LeClair didn't hit the 50 goal plateau until his seventh season - on the Legion of Doom line his best seasons as well - and Kane is hitting that year this season so there is the chance he can start hitting similar numbers, especially if he continues to wing along side Toews.

If anyone has that ceiling it's probably Kane. His numbers in the OHL and with the USDT were scary astronomical. However he is not in the same league as Ovechkin, Crosby or even Stamkos. At least not yet.

You seem to just not like Patrick Kane. It's quite understandable, he doesn't have a very likeable personality. I'm pretty sure if I knew the guy in real life I'd hate him.

However, you pick goals as your stat to try and denigrate him, which seems naive at best, most likely quite nefarious. Despite playing in a much more conservative league than Modano and Roenick in the early nineties, Kane has just short of a point per game pace, while Modano and Roenick were just above a point per game in their first six seasons. Leclair wasn't even close at .76.

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08-06-2013, 12:56 AM
  #37
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You seem to just not like Patrick Kane. It's quite understandable, he doesn't have a very likeable personality. I'm pretty sure if I knew the guy in real life I'd hate him.

However, you pick goals as your stat to try and denigrate him, which seems naive at best, most likely quite nefarious. Despite playing in a much more conservative league than Modano and Roenick in the early nineties, Kane has just short of a point per game pace, while Modano and Roenick were just above a point per game in their first six seasons. Leclair wasn't even close at .76.
Actually I like Kane. And I will admit I am a bit goal happy and do tend to view players more in that lens than I should.

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08-06-2013, 01:07 AM
  #38
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You're way off base as that's not the way these teams are constructed. Kane will be placed with the players they think will lead to the most success for that line and not because that would put him on the so-called number one line. It's about creating the best possible lines and not the best top line. It's the same reason Kane doesn't always play on the "top" line in Chicago. They will likely have three balanced lines that will be relied upon for offense and a "grind" line that will be charged with making things hell for the other team (welcome Backes, Brown, and Callahan).
There's still a top line. Its bound to be: Parise - someone - Kane. I understand that the minutes and the roles of the lines will be much different than that of an NHL game. One line wont stick out as much over the others, but that doesn't change the fact that there will still be a top line that should still have the overall best forward from that roster. You wont see team Canada making Crosby the 3rd line center, even if they play that 3rd line as many minutes as the 1st line. Kane is our best forward, he goes on the top line. Then from there they can pick the best center and left wing they think that will compliment him the most.

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08-06-2013, 01:14 AM
  #39
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There's still a top line. Its bound to be: Parise - someone - Kane. I understand that the minutes and the roles of the lines will be much different than that of an NHL game. One line wont stick out as much over the others, but that doesn't change the fact that there will still be a top line that should still have the overall best forward from that roster. You wont see team Canada making Crosby the 3rd line center, even if they play that 3rd line as many minutes as the 1st line. Kane is our best forward, he goes on the top line. Then from there they can pick the best center and left wing they think that will compliment him the most.
What determines the "top" line? Wherever Kane is placed? So if he was on a line with Trevor Lewis and Nick Bjugstad you'd consider that our top line? And I wouldn't count on Parise and Kane playing together as it didn't work in Vancouver. The placement of the best forward in the world on Team Canada has no bearing on Kane and Team USA. The teams are constructed differently for a reason. The only part you got right was your very last sentence - and it's the only part that matters.

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08-06-2013, 01:30 AM
  #40
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There's still a top line. Its bound to be: Parise - someone - Kane. I understand that the minutes and the roles of the lines will be much different than that of an NHL game. One line wont stick out as much over the others, but that doesn't change the fact that there will still be a top line that should still have the overall best forward from that roster. You wont see team Canada making Crosby the 3rd line center, even if they play that 3rd line as many minutes as the 1st line. Kane is our best forward, he goes on the top line. Then from there they can pick the best center and left wing they think that will compliment him the most.
So we didn't have a top line in Vancouver?

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08-06-2013, 07:43 AM
  #41
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I find it odd to judge Kane by his number of goals. He is a great playmaker from the wing.

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08-06-2013, 02:27 PM
  #42
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Your ignorance about Kane becomes more and more apparent with each post. Kane didn't play with Toews this year or last year for that matter. Can't remember if it was 3 years or ago or 4 years ago that Kane and Toews were on the same line.

But, I guess if they only times you watched Kane all season were during games 5 and 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals or the close out game vs LA in the conf finals then yes, I could see why you would assume they play together.

you should really stop talking about Kane while you still have even a little credibility as a poster.
being a Southside Chicago guy (who has watched nearly every Hawks game the past 20 plus years) I can tell you that Kane and Toews played a pretty fair amount together these past 2 years. Saying Kane didn't play with Toews this year or last year is absolutely incorrect and I wouldn't be calling out a guy and stating he doesn't know what he is talking about when it appears neither do you.

Q flipped the lines around a ton 2 years ago, and Kane and Toews were linemates for stretches... this past season Q flipped them less overall with trying to keep Saad-Toews-Hossa together..but there were times where Toews and Kane were on the same line, and please also do not forget about the power play where both Kane and Toews played together a ton.

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08-06-2013, 07:33 PM
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08-06-2013, 11:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
I'm ignorant about Kane? Toews isn't the only solid player on the Hawks. They were pretty well rounded from top to bottom, which is why they won 22 straight to start the season and eventually the Cup. Until Kane surpasses even 30 goals in a year sorry if I am not as terribly awe-struck as some people seem to be over him. One of the elite puck handlers in the league for sure but I want to see him start flirting with 40, 50 and maybe even 60 goal seasons before I anoint him our best player. I'd say atm we don't even have a best player, just very solid, competent overall system and group of talent from top to bottom.

As far as goal scorers, I believe Parise's 45 goal season is the most any of the American players have ever tallied in one season.
One could make the argument that he's the best playmaking wing in the game, with St.Louis up there as well.

He isn't just a goal scorer, he does quite a bit to set up other players. His ability to slow the play down and distribute is one of his best assets.

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08-07-2013, 10:31 AM
  #45
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Kane is good on the big ice, better than he is in the NHL. We saw this 4 years ago, and I suspect he'll rank high for scoring in this Olympics. I think Kessel will also have a great tournament.

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08-07-2013, 01:42 PM
  #46
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Kane is good on the big ice, better than he is in the NHL. We saw this 4 years ago, and I suspect he'll rank high for scoring in this Olympics. I think Kessel will also have a great tournament.
Kessel's speed on that big open ice.....

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08-07-2013, 08:25 PM
  #47
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If Stasny isn't injured or doesn't **** up in the beginning of the season then I think Pacioretty - Stasny - Ryan is a lock as a line. They beasted the WC 2 years ago and MaxPac & Ryan are proven scorers.

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08-07-2013, 08:53 PM
  #48
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What determines the "top" line? Wherever Kane is placed? So if he was on a line with Trevor Lewis and Nick Bjugstad you'd consider that our top line? And I wouldn't count on Parise and Kane playing together as it didn't work in Vancouver. The placement of the best forward in the world on Team Canada has no bearing on Kane and Team USA. The teams are constructed differently for a reason. The only part you got right was your very last sentence - and it's the only part that matters.

Dude ur just overthinking the basic concept of my point, that Kane is our best player on should be on our top line. I understand again that in these tournaments your top line might be outplayed by ur 2nd, 3rd or 4th line more so than in an NHL game, as the teams are much deeper. But by saying "well what do u mean, we wont have a top line, he could go on any line." is overdoing it. If we had 12 forwards all equal, then maybe i could see what ur saying. I'd think though that its pretty clear he's our best, with Kessel not far behind. That hypothetical statement about him being paired with those lesser scrubs makes no sense, that obviously would never happen. Realistically the teams most talented forward goes on the top line. No matter what way u slice it, we're still gonna have a "1st", "2nd", "3rd", and "4th" line. Kane belongs on the 1st. Simple as that.

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08-07-2013, 09:13 PM
  #49
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The US roster

Zach Parise - Joe Pavelski - Patrick Kane
Dustin Brown - Paul Stastny - Phil Kessel
Max Pacioretty - Ryan Kesler - Bobby Ryan
Ryan Callahan - David Backes - Blake Wheeler
13th: Derek Stepan
14th: Brandon Saad / Alex Galchenyuk

Ryan Suter - Keith Yandle
Jack Johnson - Ryan McDonagh
Brooks Orpik - Kevin Shattenkirk
7th: Dustin Byfuglien
8th: Zack Bogosian

Goaltenders: Jonathan Quick, Ryan Miller, and Jimmy Howard.

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08-07-2013, 10:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
Dude ur just overthinking the basic concept of my point, that Kane is our best player on should be on our top line. I understand again that in these tournaments your top line might be outplayed by ur 2nd, 3rd or 4th line more so than in an NHL game, as the teams are much deeper. But by saying "well what do u mean, we wont have a top line, he could go on any line." is overdoing it. If we had 12 forwards all equal, then maybe i could see what ur saying. I'd think though that its pretty clear he's our best, with Kessel not far behind. That hypothetical statement about him being paired with those lesser scrubs makes no sense, that obviously would never happen. Realistically the teams most talented forward goes on the top line. No matter what way u slice it, we're still gonna have a "1st", "2nd", "3rd", and "4th" line. Kane belongs on the 1st. Simple as that.
Can you please prove the statements in bold? So if Kane's line is by default the "1st" line then how do you determine which remaining lines are which?

I understand your premise that Kane is our best forward but the disconnect comes when you think that by that virtue whatever line he is on is the "1st" line. It's just seems like a silly exercise in meaninglessness labels.


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