HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > World Junior Championship
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

2014 — U.S. Roster Discussion (Part III)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-07-2013, 11:08 PM
  #51
SimpleJack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Can you please prove the statements in bold? So if Kane's line is by default the "1st" line then how do you determine which remaining lines are which?

I understand your premise that Kane is our best forward but the disconnect comes when you think that by that virtue whatever line he is on is the "1st" line. It's just seems like a silly exercise in meaninglessness labels.
More like a general fact....the best player goes on the top line....is not as silly or as complicated as ur making it sound. Its not that hard....the line listed under the 1st line (where Kane will most likely and rightfully be) is the 2nd, the one under that the 3rd, and then 4th. They will be listed, posted, labled, and released right before the tourny starts to the public, the media, the fans, the world, then possibly shuffled and renamed between games to adjust, and the numbers will identify which line is which as they will be referred to by those numbers when used. Sure you might hear the occasional "well this 3rd line is really like a top line on this team" when certain teams rosters display their depth in these tournys, but that doesn't change the fact that there is always still a top line on paper. That is all im saying.

SimpleJack is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 12:03 AM
  #52
William H Bonney
Registered User
 
William H Bonney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sierra Nevada
Country: United States
Posts: 19,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
More like a general fact....the best player goes on the top line....is not as silly or as complicated as ur making it sound. Its not that hard....the line listed under the 1st line (where Kane will most likely and rightfully be) is the 2nd, the one under that the 3rd, and then 4th. They will be listed, posted, labled, and released right before the tourny starts to the public, the media, the fans, the world, then possibly shuffled and renamed between games to adjust, and the numbers will identify which line is which as they will be referred to by those numbers when used. Sure you might hear the occasional "well this 3rd line is really like a top line on this team" when certain teams rosters display their depth in these tournys, but that doesn't change the fact that there is always still a top line on paper. That is all im saying.
So basically your point is that there must be a 1st (top) line because they must list the lines on paper and naturally one of those lines must be listed first. Got it. That still doesn't guarantee that Kane is on that line.

__________________
"I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough." - Mark Twain.
William H Bonney is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 03:52 AM
  #53
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 4,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
More like a general fact....the best player goes on the top line....is not as silly or as complicated as ur making it sound. Its not that hard....the line listed under the 1st line (where Kane will most likely and rightfully be) is the 2nd, the one under that the 3rd, and then 4th. They will be listed, posted, labled, and released right before the tourny starts to the public, the media, the fans, the world, then possibly shuffled and renamed between games to adjust, and the numbers will identify which line is which as they will be referred to by those numbers when used. Sure you might hear the occasional "well this 3rd line is really like a top line on this team" when certain teams rosters display their depth in these tournys, but that doesn't change the fact that there is always still a top line on paper. That is all im saying.
Can you link me to the posting released to the world of the lines in Vancouver.

Xokkeu is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 08:03 AM
  #54
651*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Capital of MN 651
Country: United States
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Can you link me to the posting released to the world of the lines in Vancouver.
lol, exactly. Dude is arguing something that doesn't even exist. It's technically a hypothetical that isn't even arguable. I don't even think they think in terms of line numbers, or first, second or twentieth for that matter. The lines will be constructed for the sole purpose of lining up against opposition line construction.

Look at the scene in 'Miracle' where Herb doesn't even choose the supposed best, but the team that he wants and it's the same principal in both the construction of America's and most other teams.

651* is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 09:28 AM
  #55
BonMorrison
Soco Amaretto Lime
 
BonMorrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,442
vCash: 500
Jamie Langenbrunner was on the top line in 2010 with Parise and Stastny IIRC.

BonMorrison is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 02:44 PM
  #56
STC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
being a Southside Chicago guy (who has watched nearly every Hawks game the past 20 plus years) I can tell you that Kane and Toews played a pretty fair amount together these past 2 years. Saying Kane didn't play with Toews this year or last year is absolutely incorrect and I wouldn't be calling out a guy and stating he doesn't know what he is talking about when it appears neither do you.

Q flipped the lines around a ton 2 years ago, and Kane and Toews were linemates for stretches... this past season Q flipped them less overall with trying to keep Saad-Toews-Hossa together..but there were times where Toews and Kane were on the same line, and please also do not forget about the power play where both Kane and Toews played together a ton.
I disagree AD and being on the northside I've seen just as many Hawks games as you. Kane and Toews rarely played together even strength over the past two seasons. The only times they did was when Q would load up a line after a PK. And on PP, this season they were often on different units.

To say they were linemates for stretches is not correct. At best, they were linemates occasionally.

STC is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 02:59 PM
  #57
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 4,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 651 View Post
lol, exactly. Dude is arguing something that doesn't even exist. It's technically a hypothetical that isn't even arguable. I don't even think they think in terms of line numbers, or first, second or twentieth for that matter. The lines will be constructed for the sole purpose of lining up against opposition line construction.

Look at the scene in 'Miracle' where Herb doesn't even choose the supposed best, but the team that he wants and it's the same principal in both the construction of America's and most other teams.
Certainly I think the team will likely create scoring and checking lines, but with the quality of players we have on our roster, any line will be able to score.

Just look at Vancouver...

Ryan, Backes and Malone score in game 1. From lines 4 and 2 if you assign them numbers.

Kessel, Drury, Kane, Malone, Rafalski in game 2. Lines 1, 2, 3

Drury, Langenbrunner, Kesler. Lines 4 and 1

Parise vs Switzerland. Line 1

Malone, Parise, Johnson, Kane vs Finland line 1, 2, 3

Kesler, Parise vs Canada. Line 1 and 2


In other words, you have all four lines scoring, you have a dominant performance like we had in Vancouver.

Xokkeu is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 03:37 PM
  #58
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 4,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonMorrison View Post
Jamie Langenbrunner was on the top line in 2010 with Parise and Stastny IIRC.
Parise-Stastny-Langenbrunner
Rafalski-Suter

started the Gold Medal game.


Brown-Kesler-Kane
Orpik-J. Johnson


Followed them out.


Malone-Pavelski-Kessel
Gleason-E. Johnson

Next


Callahan-Backes-Ryan
Suter-Rafalski

Final line before Parise-Stastny-Langenbrunner came out again.

Xokkeu is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 03:39 PM
  #59
AmericanDream
Puck You
 
AmericanDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: I Return to Serenity
Country: United States
Posts: 9,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by STC View Post
I disagree AD and being on the northside I've seen just as many Hawks games as you. Kane and Toews rarely played together even strength over the past two seasons. The only times they did was when Q would load up a line after a PK. And on PP, this season they were often on different units.

To say they were linemates for stretches is not correct. At best, they were linemates occasionally.
you said they "NEVER" played together the past 2 seasons and that is simply wrong no matter what side of the state we are from.

AmericanDream is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 03:40 PM
  #60
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 4,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by americandream View Post
you said they "never" played together the past 2 seasons and that is simply wrong no matter what side of the state we are from.
elgin rules!!!

Xokkeu is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 03:42 PM
  #61
AmericanDream
Puck You
 
AmericanDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: I Return to Serenity
Country: United States
Posts: 9,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
elgin rules!!!
hahaha I don't even think people from Elgin will even say that!!

AmericanDream is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 03:46 PM
  #62
True Hockey Fan
Registered User
 
True Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Can you link me to the posting released to the world of the lines in Vancouver.

USA - Switzerland (the first game)

Parise (17:24) - Stastny (16:29) - Kane (18:22)
Malone (14:23) - Pavelski (13:45) - Kessel (11:43)
Langenbrunner (13:40) - Kesler (12:51) - Brown (13:27)
Callahan (10:02) - Backes (10:37) - Ryan (10:58)
Drury (9:55)

Suter (19:03) - Rafalski (18:18)
E.Johnson (19:23) - Whitney (12:23)
J. Johnson (16:56) - Orpik (15:44)
Gleason (13:18)


USA - Canada (the gold medal game)

Parise (17:55) - Stastny (17:52) - Langenbrunner (18:35)
Malone (10:50) - Pavelski (16:26) - Kessel (15:29)
Brown (18:45) - Kesler (20:37) - Kane (19:38)
Callahan (9:14) - Backes (8:24) - Ryan (8:53)
Drury (9:34)

Suter (31:31) - Rafalski (27:48)
E.Johnson (19:47) - Gleason (14:47)
J. Johnson (23:27) - Orpik (15:10)
Whitney (2:57)


http://www.iihf.com/channels10/olymp...tatistics.html

True Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 03:53 PM
  #63
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Hockey Fan View Post
USA - Canada (the gold medal game)

Parise (17:55) - Stastny (17:52) - Langenbrunner (18:35)
Malone (10:50) - Pavelski (16:26) - Kessel (15:29)
Brown (18:45) - Kesler (20:37) - Kane (19:38)
Callahan (9:14) - Backes (8:24) - Ryan (8:53)
Drury (9:34)

Suter (31:31) - Rafalski (27:48)
E.Johnson (19:47) - Gleason (14:47)
J. Johnson (23:27) - Orpik (15:10)
Whitney (2:57)


http://www.iihf.com/channels10/olymp...tatistics.html
That's funny, if not that third line should be considered as the first one. In the end, the only think that matters is what kind of line matching the opposition does. It's they that decides who the first line is and not.

Darth Yoda is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 06:01 PM
  #64
RomersWorld*
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,162
vCash: 500
Wasn't Parise considered the best player for USA at the time anyways? He was by most. The line he was on was always considered the "1st line"...even though the Brown/Kesler/Kane line got more playing time in the gold metal game. Besides, I remember the Brown/Kesler/Kane line as the 2nd line...not the 3rd like it is listed as.

If anything it proves his point about best player on the 1st line no matter what since Parise was the best player and always considered on the 1st line despite playing less minutes than other lines. Kane won't be on what is considered a 3rd line for team USA. 2nd line maybe if they decide to let Kane carry some other linemates offensively. Realistically any combination of players with Patrick Kane on the line is at worst the "2nd line". Team USA doesn't have the top end offensive talent to relegate Kane to what would be a 3rd line.

RomersWorld* is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #65
maximus tacitus
Mathmew Purrrr Oh!
 
maximus tacitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Home Plate Area
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by STC View Post
Your ignorance about Kane becomes more and more apparent with each post. Kane didn't play with Toews this year or last year for that matter. Can't remember if it was 3 years or ago or 4 years ago that Kane and Toews were on the same line.

But, I guess if they only times you watched Kane all season were during games 5 and 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals or the close out game vs LA in the conf finals then yes, I could see why you would assume they play together.

you should really stop talking about Kane while you still have even a little credibility as a poster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
being a Southside Chicago guy (who has watched nearly every Hawks game the past 20 plus years) I can tell you that Kane and Toews played a pretty fair amount together these past 2 years. Saying Kane didn't play with Toews this year or last year is absolutely incorrect and I wouldn't be calling out a guy and stating he doesn't know what he is talking about when it appears neither do you.

Q flipped the lines around a ton 2 years ago, and Kane and Toews were linemates for stretches... this past season Q flipped them less overall with trying to keep Saad-Toews-Hossa together..but there were times where Toews and Kane were on the same line, and please also do not forget about the power play where both Kane and Toews played together a ton.

Honestly guys there's this wonderful thing called the internet that can actually allow you to obtain factual information instead of relying on imperfect memory.


Ranking forwards who spent most time with Toews 5v5

2011-2012

Toews total TOI : 868:44

1. Kane : 409:16

2. Stalberg : 400:59

3. Sharp : 278:25


2012-2013

Toews total TOI : 658:50

1. Saad : 508:32

2. Hossa : 467:71

3. Kane : 99:41


I'd say AmericanDream's memory is a bit more accurate


maximus tacitus is offline  
Old
08-08-2013, 10:30 PM
  #66
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 4,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Hockey Fan View Post
USA - Switzerland (the first game)

Parise (17:24) - Stastny (16:29) - Kane (18:22)
Malone (14:23) - Pavelski (13:45) - Kessel (11:43)
Langenbrunner (13:40) - Kesler (12:51) - Brown (13:27)
Callahan (10:02) - Backes (10:37) - Ryan (10:58)
Drury (9:55)

Suter (19:03) - Rafalski (18:18)
E.Johnson (19:23) - Whitney (12:23)
J. Johnson (16:56) - Orpik (15:44)
Gleason (13:18)


USA - Canada (the gold medal game)

Parise (17:55) - Stastny (17:52) - Langenbrunner (18:35)
Malone (10:50) - Pavelski (16:26) - Kessel (15:29)
Brown (18:45) - Kesler (20:37) - Kane (19:38)
Callahan (9:14) - Backes (8:24) - Ryan (8:53)
Drury (9:34)

Suter (31:31) - Rafalski (27:48)
E.Johnson (19:47) - Gleason (14:47)
J. Johnson (23:27) - Orpik (15:10)
Whitney (2:57)


http://www.iihf.com/channels10/olymp...tatistics.html

That is not....


Quote:
They will be listed, posted, labled, and released right before the tourny starts to the public, the media, the fans, the world, then possibly shuffled and renamed between games to adjust, and the numbers will identify which line is which as they will be referred to by those numbers when used.

Xokkeu is offline  
Old
08-09-2013, 01:57 PM
  #67
AmericanDream
Puck You
 
AmericanDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: I Return to Serenity
Country: United States
Posts: 9,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus tacitus View Post
Honestly guys there's this wonderful thing called the internet that can actually allow you to obtain factual information instead of relying on imperfect memory.


Ranking forwards who spent most time with Toews 5v5

2011-2012

Toews total TOI : 868:44

1. Kane : 409:16

2. Stalberg : 400:59

3. Sharp : 278:25


2012-2013

Toews total TOI : 658:50

1. Saad : 508:32

2. Hossa : 467:71

3. Kane : 99:41


I'd say AmericanDream's memory is a bit more accurate

don't go throwing facts out there!!

AmericanDream is offline  
Old
08-09-2013, 03:19 PM
  #68
True Hockey Fan
Registered User
 
True Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
That is not....
I know, I just thought it would be interesting to look at the first and last game for the US. The lines are without numbers. Enough said.

True Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
08-09-2013, 03:36 PM
  #69
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 4,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Hockey Fan View Post
I know, I just thought it would be interesting to look at the first and last game for the US. The lines are without numbers. Enough said.
Gotcha. Thanks for the numbers. Interesting to see

Xokkeu is offline  
Old
08-10-2013, 02:11 AM
  #70
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 721
vCash: 500
Parise (C) - Kesler (A) - Kane
JVR - Stastny - Kessel
Pacioretty - Pavelski - Ryan
Callahan (A) - Backes - Brown (A)
(Stepan & Oshie)

Suter (A) - J. Johnson
McDonagh - Yandle
Shattenkirk - E. Johnson
(Fowler & Orpik)

Quick
Miller
Howard

Thoughts?


Last edited by KJS14: 08-10-2013 at 02:23 AM.
KJS14 is offline  
Old
08-10-2013, 03:09 AM
  #71
True Hockey Fan
Registered User
 
True Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Parise (C) - Kesler (A) - Kane
JVR - Stastny - Kessel
Pacioretty - Pavelski - Ryan
Callahan (A) - Backes - Brown (A)
(Stepan & Oshie)

Suter (A) - J. Johnson
McDonagh - Yandle
Shattenkirk - E. Johnson
(Fowler & Orpik)

Quick
Miller
Howard

Thoughts?
Can't go wrong. I've never listed Kesler as a first-line center, but who knows.
The US don't have an elite center like Datsyuk or H.Sedin, so I don't see a problem with Kesler on a first line, but I would like to see him with Brown / Ryan / Callahan etc., you know, that type of a checking line, rather than on a scoring line. I know it doesn't really matter in olympic hockey, but I would rather use Kesler against the better opposite players. ..WHO KNOWS. We will see in February.

True Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
08-10-2013, 11:37 AM
  #72
Cory Trevor
Smokes, Let's go
 
Cory Trevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Brockton
Country: United States
Posts: 7,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Hockey Fan View Post
Can't go wrong. I've never listed Kesler as a first-line center, but who knows.
The US don't have an elite center like Datsyuk or H.Sedin, so I don't see a problem with Kesler on a first line, but I would like to see him with Brown / Ryan / Callahan etc., you know, that type of a checking line, rather than on a scoring line. I know it doesn't really matter in olympic hockey, but I would rather use Kesler against the better opposite players. ..WHO KNOWS. We will see in February.
I would tend to agree that Kesler will match up against top lines, given his health. Though I do feel that even with players like Kessel in the mix(not the strongest two-way player), the forward core of the US is pretty good crop of two-way players.

Cory Trevor is offline  
Old
08-16-2013, 12:53 AM
  #73
LittleKev6D9
Unregistered User
 
LittleKev6D9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middletown
Country: United States
Posts: 1,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Parise (C) - Kesler (A) - Kane
JVR - Stastny - Kessel
Pacioretty - Pavelski - Ryan
Callahan (A) - Backes - Brown (A)
(Stepan & Oshie)

Suter (A) - J. Johnson
McDonagh - Yandle
Shattenkirk - E. Johnson
(Fowler & Orpik)

Quick
Miller
Howard

Thoughts?
I hate the idea of Parise being captain. The way he bolted out of NJ to team up with Suter in Minnesota doesn't seem like a real leader. I'm really hoping for Backes personally. Parise and Suter definitely deserve "A"s but Backes is my pick for C.

LittleKev6D9 is offline  
Old
08-16-2013, 01:32 AM
  #74
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 4,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleKev6D9 View Post
I hate the idea of Parise being captain. The way he bolted out of NJ to team up with Suter in Minnesota doesn't seem like a real leader. I'm really hoping for Backes personally. Parise and Suter definitely deserve "A"s but Backes is my pick for C.
Actually it seems like a pretty damn smart move at this point.

Xokkeu is offline  
Old
08-18-2013, 03:14 PM
  #75
dwanmaster*
Rap Game Adam Banks
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Paris
Country: Qatar
Posts: 2,123
vCash: 500
Parise(A)-Kesler-Ryan - Let Parise forecheck hard and open up space for Ryan and Kesler to create
Pacioretty-Stastny-Kane -Patches gets to the front of the net so Kane can put the puck on his stick/ shoot through screen
JVR-Stepan-Kessel - Chemistry from TML
Brown(C)-Backes-Pavelski - Shut down line
Callahan

Suter(A)-Yandle
Mcdonagh-Faulk
Bogosian-J.Johnson(A)
Shattenkirk
E.Johnson
Mix of More defense and and Offense on each line.

Quick
Miller
Howard

PP1
Kessel-Stastny-Kane
Yandle-J.Johnson

PP2
Parise-Kesler-Ryan
Suter-Faulk

PK1
Parise-Kesler
Suter-Yandle

PK2
Backes-Paveslki
Mcdonagh-Faulk


Last edited by dwanmaster*: 08-18-2013 at 03:22 PM.
dwanmaster* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.