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Seattle IV: The Money Will Roll Right In

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Old
09-19-2013, 03:26 PM
  #226
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This has probably been covered already, but why can't they just knock down Key and put the arena there? It would be a decent spot for it. I still don't think right next to Safeco/Clink is a good idea. This place will turn into a nightmare.
Why would it turn into a nightmare? The area handles Football/Baseball/Soccer just fine and those are much higher capacity sporting events(well maybe not the M's anymore), Hockey/Basketball would be smaller strain on local infrastructure/resources during game days. There tends to be little significant game day overlap with these sports and the already existing teams outside the season beginning/ending with Baseball/Soccer.

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09-19-2013, 05:51 PM
  #227
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I don't get why people think putting this arena in the "stadium district" will be bad? There is no better location in the Seattle area in terms of transportation access than that area. All freeways meet there, all trains, ferries, busses and light rail. Seattle Center where the Key arena already has next to no alternate transit and limited parking for the few events it hosts and surrounding neighborhood.
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Why would it turn into a nightmare? The area handles Football/Baseball/Soccer just fine and those are much higher capacity sporting events(well maybe not the M's anymore), Hockey/Basketball would be smaller strain on local infrastructure/resources during game days. There tends to be little significant game day overlap with these sports and the already existing teams outside the season beginning/ending with Baseball/Soccer.
It's not a bad idea to have all stadiums/arenas in the same area. Most (some?) east coast cities have that and it works great. Have you guys been down around the stadiums now with multiple events going on? It's an absolutely train wreck in SODO when you combine stadium and rush hour traffic together. Plus, if you have multiple events then parking becomes a nightmare because there isn't enough of it. Also, with Hanson wanting a "party plaza" area (for lack of a better term) you are going to have access roads cutoff to the Safeco garage for sure on the back side.

The stadium area in SODO doesn't have the parking availability to withstand the amount of events that would be going on at the same time with 3 major facilities. It's not so much the NBA/NHL schedule that would clash as it would be the concert/event schedule. It's a great idea in theory, but in practice it is a terrible place for it.

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09-19-2013, 06:01 PM
  #228
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It's not a bad idea to have all stadiums/arenas in the same area. Most (some?) east coast cities have that and it works great. Have you guys been down around the stadiums now with multiple events going on? It's an absolutely train wreck in SODO when you combine stadium and rush hour traffic together. Plus, if you have multiple events then parking becomes a nightmare because there isn't enough of it. Also, with Hanson wanting a "party plaza" area (for lack of a better term) you are going to have access roads cutoff to the Safeco garage for sure on the back side.

The stadium area in SODO doesn't have the parking availability to withstand the amount of events that would be going on at the same time with 3 major facilities. It's not so much the NBA/NHL schedule that would clash as it would be the concert/event schedule. It's a great idea in theory, but in practice it is a terrible place for it.
No its not a terrible place for it. It is the perfect location for an arena. There is no other location the seattle metro area that offers the best transportation + existing parking. There will be more parking garages built. Hansen knows what he is doing here. It is VERY unlikely that there will be 3 major events going on at the same time. There is a city ordinance that forbids such a thing from happening. NBA/NHL are a winter sport. NFL is mostly on Sundays with the possible on Monday or Thursday. MLS/MLB would be most over by when NHL and NBA starts unless your talking playoffs. MLB/MLS are spring to early fall sports. MLS is a mostly Saturday games with a few mid week games and possible Sunday games. Its a matter of scheduling it out. There won't be a problem with the arena being built in sodo.

Building it anywhere else would not only cost millions and i mean millions more and make traffic even much worse much worse than what it generates in the sodo area. I live in the greater seattle area.


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Old
09-19-2013, 06:20 PM
  #229
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No its not a terrible place for it. It is the perfect location for an arena. There is no other location the seattle metro area that offers the best transportation + existing parking. There will be more parking garages built. Hansen knows what he is doing here. It is VERY unlikely that there will be 3 major events going on at the same time. There is a city ordinance that forbids such a thing from happening. NBA/NHL are a winter sport. NFL is mostly on Sundays with the possible on Monday or Thursday. MLS/MLB would be most over by when NHL and NBA starts unless your talking playoffs. MLB/MLS are spring to early fall sports. MLS is a mostly Saturday games with a few mid week games and possible Sunday games. Its a matter of scheduling it out. There won't be a problem with the arena being built in sodo.

Building it anywhere else would not only cost millions and i mean millions more and make traffic even much worse much worse than what it generates in the sodo area. I live in the greater seattle area.
I'm going to preface playing Devil's Advocate here by saying I would love hockey in this city beyond belief. I would be one of the first people knocking down the door for season tickets. Nor do I drive so in reality the parking nightmare wouldn't be an issue to me already.

While I agree that having 3 sporting events at the same time wouldn't necessarily be all the common, concerts/events would still be going on. You could argue concerts/events are more apt to draw a sellout crowd consistently because of the uniqueness. Arenas MUST have these events to sniff breaking event. I imagine finding parking on a double Sounders/Mariners/Seahawks day is a nightmare. Imagine adding a 3rd event into that mix.

People talk about parking garages/lots being built additionally. When is that going to happen? Where are they going to go? In theory it makes sense that they would sprout up after the arena gets confirmed, but where do they get put? Seattle is so compact. As much as I want the NHL to come here, that specific spot is a nightmare waiting to happen.

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09-19-2013, 06:25 PM
  #230
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I'm going to preface playing Devil's Advocate here by saying I would love hockey in this city beyond belief. I would be one of the first people knocking down the door for season tickets. Nor do I drive so in reality the parking nightmare wouldn't be an issue to me already.

While I agree that having 3 sporting events at the same time wouldn't necessarily be all the common, concerts/events would still be going on. You could argue concerts/events are more apt to draw a sellout crowd consistently because of the uniqueness. Arenas MUST have these events to sniff breaking event. I imagine finding parking on a double Sounders/Mariners/Seahawks day is a nightmare. Imagine adding a 3rd event into that mix.

People talk about parking garages/lots being built additionally. When is that going to happen? Where are they going to go? In theory it makes sense that they would sprout up after the arena gets confirmed, but where do they get put? Seattle is so compact. As much as I want the NHL to come here, that specific spot is a nightmare waiting to happen.
Hansen owns additional land near the site of the proposed arena itself to where parking garages could go. Concerts at the new arena will still have to follow the same city ordinance as the 5 sports teams do.

Hansen knows what he has to do in building this arena especially when it comes to parking.

btw Sounders usually play on the road when the seahawks have a home game with a few exceptions of a couple Friday games prior to a seahawks home game.


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09-19-2013, 06:48 PM
  #231
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I'm going to preface playing Devil's Advocate here by saying I would love hockey in this city beyond belief. I would be one of the first people knocking down the door for season tickets. Nor do I drive so in reality the parking nightmare wouldn't be an issue to me already.

While I agree that having 3 sporting events at the same time wouldn't necessarily be all the common, concerts/events would still be going on. You could argue concerts/events are more apt to draw a sellout crowd consistently because of the uniqueness. Arenas MUST have these events to sniff breaking event. I imagine finding parking on a double Sounders/Mariners/Seahawks day is a nightmare. Imagine adding a 3rd event into that mix.

People talk about parking garages/lots being built additionally. When is that going to happen? Where are they going to go? In theory it makes sense that they would sprout up after the arena gets confirmed, but where do they get put? Seattle is so compact. As much as I want the NHL to come here, that specific spot is a nightmare waiting to happen.
Good points you make, but I also would agree with GS here. And I would also add with respect to concerts/other events going on, most of the concerts in the summer months around here are usually outdoor anyway, whether that be out at White River Amphitheatre or over at the Gorge in George, which, for those who are unfamiliar, is a small community about 150 miles east of Seattle along I-90 on the other side of the Cascades. Those venues hold far more people than the arena would, and thus would probably still draw most of the significant business. Perhaps the arena would take concert business away from the Tacoma Dome, but the T-Dome is mostly used for shows that come through in the winter months, although there are times where it is used during the summer for that purpose as well.

And if there was an issue, as GS said, the current regulations regarding multiple events could be used to govern that.

BTW, hope all of you saw the nice piece on CD5 over at SonicsRising today......

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09-19-2013, 07:21 PM
  #232
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Hehe ... actually having people causing traffic jams wanting to attend a sporting events. That's a nicer problem to have than in markets where parking is free and readily available and you have empty seats disguised as fans.

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09-19-2013, 10:09 PM
  #233
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btw Sounders usually play on the road when the seahawks have a home game with a few exceptions of a couple Friday games prior to a seahawks home game.
Mariners & Seahawks never play the same weekend in Seattle. Sounders do have an overlap with Mariners and Im quite sure the city would prohibit Ms, Sounders & Other happening the same time.

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09-19-2013, 10:52 PM
  #234
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Mariners & Seahawks never play the same weekend in Seattle. Sounders do have an overlap with Mariners and Im quite sure the city would prohibit Ms, Sounders & Other happening the same time.
Usually there is a week day/end when they play at the same time (ask for permission to do so) But when the sounders at home and the mariners at home on a Saturday or Sunday, one team has the day time the other the night time.

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09-20-2013, 12:42 PM
  #235
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The aggravation with the sharing issue is when USA played Panama in a World Cup Qualifier in the Clink and, because the Mariners were already playing that night, capacity was limited by rule. Given what the Mariners draw of late, it was complete BS.

I know that Baltimore's ballpark and football stadium are neighbors, and while the Civic Arena is walking distance away, the arena isn't that big and not used for much more than concerts and the very last true bastion of indoor soccer. I know Philadelphia groups their facilities, but that's not near downtown. I remember the Atlanta Olympics and what a nightmare downtown was... and I would characterize Seattle's highway system as closer to Atlanta than even, say, Portland. Point is, I don't know anyone who throws 4 sports in the same spot THAT close to downtown. I think there is a problem in the making. I also know Seattle traffic well enough to know why the unions have issues.

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09-20-2013, 01:47 PM
  #236
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The aggravation with the sharing issue is when USA played Panama in a World Cup Qualifier in the Clink and, because the Mariners were already playing that night, capacity was limited by rule. Given what the Mariners draw of late, it was complete BS.

I know that Baltimore's ballpark and football stadium are neighbors, and while the Civic Arena is walking distance away, the arena isn't that big and not used for much more than concerts and the very last true bastion of indoor soccer. I know Philadelphia groups their facilities, but that's not near downtown. I remember the Atlanta Olympics and what a nightmare downtown was... and I would characterize Seattle's highway system as closer to Atlanta than even, say, Portland. Point is, I don't know anyone who throws 4 sports in the same spot THAT close to downtown. I think there is a problem in the making. I also know Seattle traffic well enough to know why the unions have issues.
You are talking about the Olympics and World Cup Qualifiers as reference. I am not sure I get the point. The scheduling issues have been discussed at length that the conflicts will be very few and far between. An arena with a capacity of 18k having events that don't conflict with their neighbors with larger capacities is not going to have any great effect on traffic IMO. The unions objections have not proven to me that they will be negatively affected with the majority of events on nights and weekends.

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09-20-2013, 01:47 PM
  #237
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The aggravation with the sharing issue is when USA played Panama in a World Cup Qualifier in the Clink and, because the Mariners were already playing that night, capacity was limited by rule. Given what the Mariners draw of late, it was complete BS.

I know that Baltimore's ballpark and football stadium are neighbors, and while the Civic Arena is walking distance away, the arena isn't that big and not used for much more than concerts and the very last true bastion of indoor soccer. I know Philadelphia groups their facilities, but that's not near downtown. I remember the Atlanta Olympics and what a nightmare downtown was... and I would characterize Seattle's highway system as closer to Atlanta than even, say, Portland. Point is, I don't know anyone who throws 4 sports in the same spot THAT close to downtown. I think there is a problem in the making. I also know Seattle traffic well enough to know why the unions have issues.
It was a midweek game and nothing you can about those.

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09-20-2013, 01:48 PM
  #238
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You are talking about the Olympics and World Cup Qualifiers as reference. I am not sure I get the point. The scheduling issues have been discussed at length that the conflicts will be very few and far between. An arena with a capacity of 18k having events that don't conflict with their neighbors is not going to have any great effect on traffic IMO. The unions objections have not proven to me that they will be negatively affected with the majority of events on nights and weekends.
The ILWU can careless about traffic cause they support the coal trains which will in fact cause traffic much more than the arena will. They get no benefit out of the arena hence why they are against it. They want a blank government handout. That's the real issue is about. The fact they are not getting it cause everyone knows they are nothing but full of hot air.

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09-20-2013, 04:25 PM
  #239
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The ILWU can careless about traffic cause they support the coal trains which will in fact cause traffic much more than the arena will. They get no benefit out of the arena hence why they are against it. They want a blank government handout. That's the real issue is about. The fact they are not getting it cause everyone knows they are nothing but full of hot air.
Yep, for example I have the feeling the Port/ILWU wouldn't have their hands out if the city magically decided to direct tax money towards building the Lander Street overpass.

The traffic issue has been beaten to death a bunch. SoDo makes the most sense due to existing transportation infrastructure in place for the existing stadiums (rail, entrances to two major freeways), minimal overlap between events, no impact to residential life in the city, positive impact to surrounding commerce, no need to buy new land (Hansen), no need to rezone (stadium district), etc etc. Placing the arena in any other neighborhood would incur the NIMBY wrath of that neighborhood, guaranteed. The positive economic impact of the arena vastly outweigh the very minor issue of traffic on the few nights a year that there are multiple events, and Seattle will have to coordinates these instances appropriately (Philly, Denver, and other cities we already mentioned here). That's the work that comes with being a major city.

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09-20-2013, 04:40 PM
  #240
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Yep, for example I have the feeling the Port/ILWU wouldn't have their hands out if the city magically decided to direct tax money towards building the Lander Street overpass.

The traffic issue has been beaten to death a bunch. SoDo makes the most sense due to existing transportation infrastructure in place for the existing stadiums (rail, entrances to two major freeways), minimal overlap between events, no impact to residential life in the city, positive impact to surrounding commerce, no need to buy new land (Hansen), no need to rezone (stadium district), etc etc. Placing the arena in any other neighborhood would incur the NIMBY wrath of that neighborhood, guaranteed. The positive economic impact of the arena vastly outweigh the very minor issue of traffic on the few nights a year that there are multiple events, and Seattle will have to coordinates these instances appropriately (Philly, Denver, and other cities we already mentioned here). That's the work that comes with being a major city.
Problem is the city council already said that a over pass on lander won't really do much in improving traffic and it has a 180m dollar price tag.

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09-20-2013, 05:52 PM
  #241
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Yep, for example I have the feeling the Port/ILWU wouldn't have their hands out if the city magically decided to direct tax money towards building the Lander Street overpass.

The traffic issue has been beaten to death a bunch. SoDo makes the most sense due to existing transportation infrastructure in place for the existing stadiums (rail, entrances to two major freeways), minimal overlap between events, no impact to residential life in the city, positive impact to surrounding commerce, no need to buy new land (Hansen), no need to rezone (stadium district), etc etc. Placing the arena in any other neighborhood would incur the NIMBY wrath of that neighborhood, guaranteed. The positive economic impact of the arena vastly outweigh the very minor issue of traffic on the few nights a year that there are multiple events, and Seattle will have to coordinates these instances appropriately (Philly, Denver, and other cities we already mentioned here). That's the work that comes with being a major city.
This simply is not true. Arenas have events almost every day of the year to break even/turn a profit. All of the concerts shows going to Key would end up in the new state of the art arena. The arena area isn't equipped to handle stadium traffic on some days with 1 event let alone 3. Have you ever left a Mariners day game that lets out during rush hour? Have you tried getting down to a 7pm game and entering the city in rush hour? SODO turns into a nightmare with games + regular traffic.

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09-20-2013, 05:59 PM
  #242
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This simply is not true. Arenas have events almost every day of the year to break even/turn a profit. All of the concerts shows going to Key would end up in the new state of the art arena. The arena area isn't equipped to handle stadium traffic on some days with 1 event let alone 3. Have you ever left a Mariners day game that lets out during rush hour? Have you tried getting down to a 7pm game and entering the city in rush hour? SODO turns into a nightmare with games + regular traffic.
You're right about that, but it's been that way down there for like, what, 35 years now? The Kingdome had the same problems with game traffic and rush hour traffic. And it was actually worse way back when before I-90 got extended down there from I-5 because people had to work through the maze of surface streets down there to get from the Dome to the freeways. At least now with the direct surface street tie-ins to the freeways (Edgar Martinez Dr. to I-90), it's much easier to get out of there.

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09-20-2013, 06:00 PM
  #243
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New Details emerge about the proposed Seattle Arena:

http://m.bizjournals.com/seattle/new...mg_no=1&r=full


So awesome.
Pretty ambitious, but it sounds cool.

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09-20-2013, 06:12 PM
  #244
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http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/0...l-provide.html

Perhaps a bit OT at this point, but Chris Daniels on his Twitter feed linked this story that appeared in yesterday's Tacoma News Tribune talking about the future viability of the Tacoma Dome to house professional sports, and there is mention in the story about the hockey tenants that have come and gone from there, the Rockets and Sabrecats. It should be noted by the way if you haven't heard that the Seattle Storm WNBA playoff game on Sunday will be at the Tacoma Dome instead of Key Arena thanks to an arena schedule conflict with a Microsoft event.

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09-20-2013, 06:14 PM
  #245
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http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/0...l-provide.html

Perhaps a bit OT at this point, but Chris Daniels on his Twitter feed linked this story that appeared in yesterday's Tacoma News Tribune talking about the future viability of the Tacoma Dome to house professional sports, and there is mention in the story about the hockey tenants that have come and gone from there, the Rockets and Sabrecats. It should be noted by the way if you haven't heard that the Seattle Storm WNBA playoff game on Sunday will be at the Tacoma Dome instead of Key Arena thanks to an arena schedule conflict with a Microsoft event.
Tacoma Dome is dead when it comes to any sports.

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09-21-2013, 11:37 AM
  #246
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You're right about that, but it's been that way down there for like, what, 35 years now? The Kingdome had the same problems with game traffic and rush hour traffic. And it was actually worse way back when before I-90 got extended down there from I-5 because people had to work through the maze of surface streets down there to get from the Dome to the freeways. At least now with the direct surface street tie-ins to the freeways (Edgar Martinez Dr. to I-90), it's much easier to get out of there.
So because it's been that way for 35 years, the city should make it worse? The location makes sense with all of the transportation options, but it cannot handle the amount of traffic it would create in addition to what is already there.

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09-21-2013, 01:08 PM
  #247
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So because it's been that way for 35 years, the city should make it worse? The location makes sense with all of the transportation options, but it cannot handle the amount of traffic it would create in addition to what is already there.
There will be traffic no matter where the arena gets placed. No other location has the same transportation options then sodo. I-5 I-90, metro, ferry, 3 light rail station. Future light tail to Belleuve/remdond, lynnwood and federal way. Game traffic will get better in the coming decade.

18k people 3/4 days a week that is no different than a mariners home series going on.

If you built it in seattle center at the Key arena spot or out side of the city guess what Traffic will be MUCH MUCH WORSE than it would be in sodo. The only ideal location for the arena is sodo. Hansen wants to built it there for a reason cause of the transportation options. No other part in the city or greater seattle area has that kind of transportation choices. Hansen has to have a way to get people to and from the arena and that is why he picked sodo. Unless some other billionaire with a plan and way to fund it at a different location the arena will be placed at sodo unless we do not get a NBA and/or NHL.


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09-21-2013, 06:07 PM
  #248
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There will be traffic no matter where the arena gets placed. No other location has the same transportation options then sodo. I-5 I-90, metro, ferry, 3 light rail station. Future light tail to Belleuve/remdond, lynnwood and federal way. Game traffic will get better in the coming decade.

18k people 3/4 days a week that is no different than a mariners home series going on.

If you built it in seattle center at the Key arena spot or out side of the city guess what Traffic will be MUCH MUCH WORSE than it would be in sodo. The only ideal location for the arena is sodo. Hansen wants to built it there for a reason cause of the transportation options. No other part in the city or greater seattle area has that kind of transportation choices. Hansen has to have a way to get people to and from the arena and that is why he picked sodo. Unless some other billionaire with a plan and way to fund it at a different location the arena will be placed at sodo unless we do not get a NBA and/or NHL.
Your argument is that there will be traffic regardless and that's a valid point. However, you're going to add an additional 18k people coming into traffic that is already horrendous. How is that in anyway a good idea? It's an awful idea. It's a good way to have people that spent good money miss parts of their event because traffic is gridlocked and they can't find a place to park in a fashionable amount of time.

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09-21-2013, 06:16 PM
  #249
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Your argument is that there will be traffic regardless and that's a valid point. However, you're going to add an additional 18k people coming into traffic that is already horrendous. How is that in anyway a good idea? It's an awful idea. It's a good way to have people that spent good money miss parts of their event because traffic is gridlocked and they can't find a place to park in a fashionable amount of time.
Not all of those 18k will be driving. Putting a new arena over by the Key makes things even worse as there's less access to public transportation than there is in the stadium district which means more of those 18k will be driving then there would be for a stadium near Safeco/Century Link. I know if I'm going to an NHL game at an arena in the stadium district I'm driving up to Seatac and taking the light rail in.


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09-21-2013, 08:13 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Not all of those 18k will be driving. Putting a new arena over by the Key makes things even worse as there's less access to public transportation then there is in the stadium district which means more of those 18k will be driving then there would be for a stadium near Safeco/Century Link. I know if I'm going to an NHL game at an arena in the stadium district I'm driving up to Seatac and taking the light rail in.
Exactly the point. Not everyone will be driving to the sodo arena and in the near future even less word with the expansion of lightrail north south and east.

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