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Do Habs fans think that Bergevin is going to ice this roster ?

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08-06-2013, 02:51 AM
  #201
Dirty Danglez
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Looking at the depth chart, our RW is an absolute joke, Gionta 5'7 Gallagher 5'9, Breire 5'10, and maybe some one can help me out, but but the top 2 RW for the Bulldogs are most likely going to be Thomas 5'9 and Leblanc 6'.

They gotta go up against nothing but huge D-men playing LD in our division.

Cowen, Methot, Phillips all between 6'3 and 6'5, Chara at 6'9, Tallinder at 6'4, Aule Brewer, and Hedman all between 6'4 and 6'6, Phaneuf and Fraser at 6'3 and 6'4, Detriot with no LD under 6'3.

Just rewatch Bergevin press confernce July 5th explain the Briere signing, and only good I see coming from the signing, is that Bergevin knows his honeymoon is over, you can hear it in his voice that he got mad when media where drilling him with question about size after what he said on draft day. I don't know what was worse for me, Gauthier finding away to talk himself from answer questions like a little *****, or Bergevin straight up contradicting himself in a matter or days, when he said that getting size in the draft was about sending a message, and filling a team need, and then going out to sign Briere.. lol

Edit: atleast we got Parros for some size on RW.
I get what you're saying and it is a good point, but don't exaggerate. Kronwall, quincey and kindl/dekhyser (sp) are not particularly big or intimidating (even if tall). Kronwall can do those sneaky open ice hits on anyone big or small.

Tallinder? Another big guy who doesn't necessarily slow down smaller players.

I completely agree with The ottawa D though. they are the big defenseman who play physical. That's how they neutralized our small lionheart player in the POs.

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08-06-2013, 03:33 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
I get what you're saying and it is a good point, but don't exaggerate. Kronwall, quincey and kindl/dekhyser (sp) are not particularly big or intimidating (even if tall). Kronwall can do those sneaky open ice hits on anyone big or small.

Tallinder? Another big guy who doesn't necessarily slow down smaller players.

I completely agree with The ottawa D though. they are the big defenseman who play physical. That's how they neutralized our small lionheart player in the POs.
Ya it's more of a rant, but still, I mean you need a balance, it's not all about size, but there is zero balance in the make up of this team. I mean is there anyone that doesn't see that RW depth chart and doesn't see a problem?

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08-06-2013, 07:45 AM
  #203
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They can always move Eller to DD's right wing!

He's got decent hands enough to play on his off side + he would be able to exploit his speed, size & shot a lot more. It might sound crazy, but I think it could work for a dozen games or so. Sink Brière on the 4th line for all I care. Galchenyuk should get 3rd line centre duty if that happens.

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08-06-2013, 07:46 AM
  #204
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The Briere signing just makes it clear that One of Bergevins objectives is to have local players . Briere became available and he acted . He and Desharnais fill a need in the media relations department and I am resigned to the fact that Bergevin got the GM job supporting the idea of having a Franco presence on the club.

Any GM in Montreal would have acted on Briere because it is part of the vision from the top.

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08-06-2013, 07:52 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
The Briere signing just makes it clear that One of Bergevins objectives is to have local players . .
If Brière is a local player, where does the local boundary extend to?

Born in Gatineau, played his midget in Clarence Creek (IIRC). That's a hell of a huge local net.

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08-06-2013, 07:53 AM
  #206
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First bold- That's exactly what I'm saying. The Briere signing wasn't my favorite signing, but he was the best short-term player available on the market without breaking the bank.

Second bold- Who do you suggest we put in a top-6 role that played in Hamilton last year? Leblanc? The guy played 18 games.

I'm going to repeat myself one more time: I don't like the Briere signing, but at the same time, it was the best Bergevin could have done without, a, breaking the bank and b, signing a guy longterm.
First bold, that's simply not true. An ageing Tim Thomas is a way better short term asset than shrimpy briefs, and will likely be cheaper to boot. But we are not in the market for another goalie because we are set in nets with price. You see you don't make taxes in the absence of context and whether or not signing a paper makes a team better on the ice, which brings us back to briere.

I know the fanbase is diverse and passionate but the people defending this trade are simply putting lipstick on a pig. What he brings we have, what he lacks we need. That and the fact that if TB does not buy out Vinny, I don't see shrimpy donning the CH because then we don't need a consolation prize. And I really am a glass half full kind of guy, I think the team has made good strides and shrimpys previous spurning of Montreal has zero to do with it. But I look at the team last year and can see multiple areas where we need to improve, I just can't see how Briere addresses ANY of these needs. Its like 10 000 spoons when all you need is a knife.

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08-06-2013, 08:04 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
The Briere signing just makes it clear that One of Bergevins objectives is to have local players . Briere became available and he acted . He and Desharnais fill a need in the media relations department and I am resigned to the fact that Bergevin got the GM job supporting the idea of having a Franco presence on the club.

Any GM in Montreal would have acted on Briere because it is part of the vision from the top.
And that's exactly what upsets me so much about Bergevin. Supposedly this man is a breath of fresh air but his mandate is literally the same as his predecessors and he's going about it shamelessly.

The rant about our RWs above is so on point - this team cannot reasonably support so many non-physical little smurfs without some divine intervention. That our d-corps to start the year will boast Bouillon (terrible on the inside) and Drewiskie (absolutely useless everywhere) and then Diaz, Markov and Gorges who are good positional players but not hitters or crease clearers either, just infuriates me. It puts so much strain on the goalie and the forwards, just get a hitter for god's sake.

Bergevin is worse than the last two GMs because he contradicts himself and makes hypocritical moves. If Subban ought to have further proved himself, so should've the undrafted, undersized, playoff unperforming Desharnais.

How can a team have so little offensive talent AND be so little physically? If we had Patty Kane and MSL no one would complain about their size but the only comparable player is diminutive sophomore Brendan Gallagher whose already suffered a concussion as a result of his play last year. The other smurfs are over-the-hill or never-weres.

And then that imbecile Therrien slams our best winger next to Desharnais and releases three impotent lines against teams with huge d-men because we're going to have FIVE perimiter players in our top SIX!!

Pleks, Gionta, Briere, Desharnais and Gallagher are all going to get significant PP time so I count them as the top 6 - even though our RWs are putrid and/or inexperienced for any top6 on a contending team.

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08-06-2013, 08:35 AM
  #208
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I don't know if anybody picked up on what Briere said in his presser:

RDS link

At some point, he's asked if he talked to MT and MB about how they plan to use him and all that good stuff and he answered that things are not settled because some trades could still happen (me paraphrasing here). I thought it sounded as if they told him they don't have an ideal spot for him in the lineup but things are still in flux. Amazingly, the "journalists" were not alert enough to press him for more details on that conversation with a follow-up question and they move on to another topic. Sigh.

EDIT: His comment starts at 4:20. I find it surprising a seasoned veteran would sign without knowing how he will be utilized but then again, maybe he was desperate to sign a contract.

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08-06-2013, 08:57 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
I don't know if anybody picked up on what Briere said in his presser:

RDS link

At some point, he's asked if he talked to MT and MB about how they plan to use him and all that good stuff and he answered that things are not settled because some trades could still happen (me paraphrasing here). I thought it sounded as if they told him they don't have an ideal spot for him in the lineup but things are still in flux. Amazingly, the "journalists" were not alert enough to press him for more details on that conversation with a follow-up question and they move on to another topic. Sigh.
Ha ha ha! And people still think Briere signed becaused he liked our management's vision. Wake up call: he signed because we overpaid big time.

And another big LOL at MB/MT saying that things are still 'in flux', but not doing anything afterwards. They were just making sure not to promise anything to Briere.

I'd like to be wrong on that one, but the Briere signing was not made within a broader plan of trading some of our smaller players.

The lineup on opening night will probably be what it is right now, minus 1 or 2 minor moves.

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08-06-2013, 09:04 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
And that's exactly what upsets me so much about Bergevin. Supposedly this man is a breath of fresh air but his mandate is literally the same as his predecessors and he's going about it shamelessly.

The rant about our RWs above is so on point - this team cannot reasonably support so many non-physical little smurfs without some divine intervention. That our d-corps to start the year will boast Bouillon (terrible on the inside) and Drewiskie (absolutely useless everywhere) and then Diaz, Markov and Gorges who are good positional players but not hitters or crease clearers either, just infuriates me. It puts so much strain on the goalie and the forwards, just get a hitter for god's sake.

Bergevin is worse than the last two GMs because he contradicts himself and makes hypocritical moves. If Subban ought to have further proved himself, so should've the undrafted, undersized, playoff unperforming Desharnais.
I agree with a lot of what you said but its still way too early to saw MB is worse than the last two GM's. Would I have preferred two steps forward and stand pat over two steps forward, a half step back ? Sure.

The big issue is whether he will address the glaring deficiencies and how and at what cost. I am likely the most vocal critic of the briere deal, but if you want to evaluate the gm you have to look at his entire body of work, which is still very much in progress.

That being said I think we do ice the team as is and I suspect something will happen early on to expose our Charmin softness and he will be obligated to do SOMETHING and we will at best overpay, at worst get fleeced.

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08-06-2013, 09:05 AM
  #211
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Looking at the depth chart, our RW is an absolute joke, Gionta 5'7 Gallagher 5'9, Breire 5'10, and maybe some one can help me out, but but the top 2 RW for the Bulldogs are most likely going to be Thomas 5'9 and Leblanc 6'.

They gotta go up against nothing but huge D-men playing LD in our division.

Cowen, Methot, Phillips all between 6'3 and 6'5, Chara at 6'9, Tallinder at 6'4, Aule Brewer, and Hedman all between 6'4 and 6'6, Phaneuf and Fraser at 6'3 and 6'4, Detriot with no LD under 6'3.

Just rewatch Bergevin press confernce July 5th explain the Briere signing, and only good I see coming from the signing, is that Bergevin knows his honeymoon is over, you can hear it in his voice that he got mad when media where drilling him with question about size after what he said on draft day. I don't know what was worse for me, Gauthier finding away to talk himself from answer questions like a little *****, or Bergevin straight up contradicting himself in a matter or days, when he said that getting size in the draft was about sending a message, and filling a team need, and then going out to sign Briere.. lol

Edit: atleast we got Parros for some size on RW.

Briere is NOT a right wing. If MT puts him there, he will regret it. Philly tried and it STUNK. He is a center and should play that position before DD.

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08-06-2013, 09:06 AM
  #212
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MB may want to trade some of our smaller players but who will take them? We must be the team with the most C's in their lineup. Surely, they have to realize that??

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08-06-2013, 09:14 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by drakaar10iemechx2012 View Post
Briere is NOT a right wing. If MT puts him there, he will regret it. Philly tried and it STUNK. He is a center and should play that position before DD.
If 2010-11 Briere shows up, it's probably DD who ends up on the wing. I'm cautiously optimistic about Briere contributing. He's getting way too much hate. 5'10" is not the same as 5'7" (DD) and, at his best, he's just as feisty as Gallagher. There are bigger issues with the team than having him in the lineup.

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08-06-2013, 09:24 AM
  #214
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How dare he ice almost the same team that won the division! How dare he!
short season

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08-06-2013, 09:29 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
MB may want to trade some of our smaller players but who will take them? We must be the team with the most C's in their lineup. Surely, they have to realize that??
Gallagher would definitely garner some interest. It'd be tough to trade a kid like that who plays his ass off and just had a great rookie season, but he is the only one that would be worth anything. Gio will play out his contract and we're stuck with DD..

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08-06-2013, 09:32 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
If Brière is a local player, where does the local boundary extend to?

Born in Gatineau, played his midget in Clarence Creek (IIRC). That's a hell of a huge local net.
It is a huge area for players to be considered local. After all the Montreal Canadiens are the team of Quebec and the team of french canadiens because of its history, location and fans.

This makes Briere a great local player for us.

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08-06-2013, 09:39 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
It is a huge area for players to be considered local. After all the Montreal Canadiens are the team of Quebec and the team of french canadiens because of its history, location and fans.

This makes Briere a great local player for us.
I wonder if the Leafs consider it a 'local signing' when they pick up someone from Sarnia.

There's nothing local about Briere in respects to Montreal. His local team would be the Sens.

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08-06-2013, 09:49 AM
  #218
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Gallagher would definitely garner some interest. It'd be tough to trade a kid like that who plays his ass off and just had a great rookie season, but he is the only one that would be worth anything. Gio will play out his contract and we're stuck with DD..
This is my fear. If we get backed into a corner ( and I know its unlikely for our players to actually be in the corners but bear with me) and are forced to do something to get some jam, our trade partners are not looking at Gio or DD but some of our young players or prospects.

I really like Gallagher and Chucky, but if someone small has to go its gallagher, which will haunt us, forever.

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08-06-2013, 10:00 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post

Just rewatch Bergevin press confernce July 5th explain the Briere signing, and only good I see coming from the signing, is that Bergevin knows his honeymoon is over, you can hear it in his voice that he got mad when media where drilling him with question about size after what he said on draft day. I don't know what was worse for me, Gauthier finding away to talk himself from answer questions like a little *****, or Bergevin straight up contradicting himself in a matter or days, when he said that getting size in the draft was about sending a message, and filling a team need, and then going out to sign Briere.. lol

Edit: atleast we got Parros for some size on RW.
Oh brother...

Listen carefully cause this GM 101 class is free this time, but next time I may charge you.

1st of all, no matter how some specific need may be obvious to everybody, every team has need(S) and you can't push back any because you want to care of something 1st.

Everybody that knows me on HF knows that I'm a fan of powerforwards in the top 6 and have defended the importance on having an enforcer for atleast 5 years. That being said, we still have a bunch of other specific type of players that could be usefull to the Habs:

-a brusing defensmen
-a top 4 with size and puck moving abilities
-top 2 center with size
-added talent on the wings
-centermen prospects
-etc etc.

Habs have spent the last decade having 1 good pp line and 1 crappy pp line that plays for 30 sec. Added Daniel Briere makes the Habs better on the shootout, gives us more options as LW on the pp, more puck distribution to Pacioretty, Bourque and Galchenyuk and a player who 1 on 1 is in the upper echelon of the NHL.

No matter how badly we need size, we also need players who can play with them. Replacing Ryder was a must and now we have someone cheap who can do that until Collberg is ready to play in the top 6. Bergevin was pissed at the lack of knowledge and vision displayed by the media at the press conference, not by his own moves! Hawks went from havin Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Eager and Sopel to having Bickell, Shaw, Kruger, Boilig and Leddy. That's a bunch of BIG character players that were developed from within, and that's EXACTLY the plan that Bergevin has for us. Hawks always have a solution when someone leaves, one day we will be able to say the same thing. Bergevin doesn't want to lose assets because of missmanagement, but his whole system takes years to set up.

At the end of this, just remember that there's a reason why he's a professional and you're a fan. Bergevin sees what we see, but there's a time and a place to take care of things. You don't give away 5, 6 year contracts to free agents when you have a ton of good young players that will demand a raise in salary.

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08-06-2013, 10:03 AM
  #220
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This is my fear. If we get backed into a corner ( and I know its unlikely for our players to actually be in the corners but bear with me) and are forced to do something to get some jam, our trade partners are not looking at Gio or DD but some of our young players or prospects.

I really like Gallagher and Chucky, but if someone small has to go its gallagher, which will haunt us, forever.
Trading Gallagher would be so idiotic. As far as I know, Brad Marchand is 5'9" and I don't think the Bruins would trade him just for the sake of having only players above 6'0". MB has to find the right mix of players to support the smaller players, not get rid of all of them. Gionta comes off the books soon and DD has some value for the right team. If those two come out of the lineup, all of the sudden everything falls into place and it clears some of the logjam.

However, MB committing four years to DD is not a good sign.

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08-06-2013, 10:05 AM
  #221
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I don't think Gallagher should be untouchable...but we better get something very, very nice back if we think about trading him. Size aside he hits the net harder than even many of our bigger forwards.

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08-06-2013, 10:10 AM
  #222
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I don't think Gallagher should be untouchable...but we better get something very, very nice back if we think about trading him. Size aside he hits the net harder than even many of our bigger forwards.
Him and Subban are the most exciting players on the team imo. I get so pissed at Pacioretty for not crashing the net like Gallagher. Unfortunately, I can't see Gallagher having a long career the way he gets banged up but like you said if it were to happen, hopefully it would be a really nice return.

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08-06-2013, 10:18 AM
  #223
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No matter how badly we need size, we also need players who can play with them. Replacing Ryder was a must and now we have someone cheap who can do that until Collberg is ready to play in the top 6.
To add to your excellent points, it's about having a variety of players. Ryder will take you to the playoffs with a great regular season but we have too many players who don't show up once we get there for a variety of reasons. Briere is near the top of the clutch-in-the-playoffs list so people should stop fixating on his size and harp on the lack of size and toughness on D instead.

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08-06-2013, 10:19 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Trading Gallagher would be so idiotic. As far as I know, Brad Marchand is 5'9" and I don't think the Bruins would trade him just for the sake of having only players above 6'0". MB has to find the right mix of players to support the smaller players, not get rid of all of them. Gionta comes off the books soon and DD has some value for the right team. If those two come out of the lineup, all of the sudden everything falls into place and it clears some of the logjam.

However, MB committing four years to DD is not a good sign.
If DD had value to some team we could move him, its not going to happen. the market for small soft players with an unresistable penchant for falling down is pretty thin. he might have an okay year playing with linemates with size and grit but we dont thave those either.

I agree trading Gallagher would be a mistake, but if we play boston or toronto on a saturday night and get ragdolled like last year, the demands for help will be too loud to ignore and we will make a reckless short sighted trade to silence the crowd.

Gio has a NTC and the market for DD is very thin so I think that they stay unless packaged with some better asset.

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08-06-2013, 10:26 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
If DD had value to some team we could move him, its not going to happen. the market for small soft players with an unresistable penchant for falling down is pretty thin. he might have an okay year playing with linemates with size and grit but we dont thave those either.

I agree trading Gallagher would be a mistake, but if we play boston or toronto on a saturday night and get ragdolled like last year, the demands for help will be too loud to ignore and we will make a reckless short sighted trade to silence the crowd.

Gio has a NTC and the market for DD is very thin so I think that they stay unless packaged with some better asset.
Gallagher gets ragdolled because he's asking for it by standing in front of the net. DD gets ragdolled because he's not moving in the corner.

My biggest fear is not that DD can't be traded but that MB is not trying to trade him. Why else would he have offered him at four year contract? To make him a more attractive asset?

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