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Jason Pominville's draft year

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02-06-2016, 03:44 PM
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Sensinitis
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Jason Pominville's draft year

Jason Pominville scored 113 pts (46 goals) in 71 games in the Q in 00-01, and was drafted 55th overall (2nd round) in 2001. Why was he drafted so low?

He turned 18 in November 2000, which made him uneligible for the 2000 draft.
In comparison, Jack Eichel, 2nd overall in 2015, turned 18 in October 2014. That didn't affect his draft position. Is that what affected Pominville's?

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02-06-2016, 04:06 PM
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sandercohan78
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"Jason Pominville scored 113 pts (46 goals) in 71 games in the Q"

Answered your own question, Ribeiro had 125 points his draft year a few years earlier and went in the 2nd round. Brad richards 115 points and went in the 3rd round same year as Ribeiro.

For whatever reason offence in the Q is sometimes overlooked.

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02-06-2016, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensinitis View Post
Jason Pominville scored 113 pts (46 goals) in 71 games in the Q in 00-01, and was drafted 55th overall (2nd round) in 2001. Why was he drafted so low?

He turned 18 in November 2000, which made him uneligible for the 2000 draft.
In comparison, Jack Eichel, 2nd overall in 2015, turned 18 in October 2014. That didn't affect his draft position. Is that what affected Pominville's?
Both were on the extra year side of the September 15 cut-off date for the NHL Entry Draft. Jason Pominville played his youth hockey in Quebec before Hockey Quebec adopted the calendar year as the hockey year as was the case with the rest of Canada. So he was an "old".

Regardless, in youth, junior and in the NHL he lacked consistency. Reflected in his draft position and his NHL career.

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02-06-2016, 04:21 PM
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He was also playing on a very stacked Shawinigan team, with the likes of a 19 year old Radim Vrbata and Marc-Andre Bergeron. So maybe he scouts thought he was a product of his teammates?

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02-06-2016, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandercohan78 View Post
"Jason Pominville scored 113 pts (46 goals) in 71 games in the Q"

Answered your own question, Ribeiro had 125 points his draft year a few years earlier and went in the 2nd round. Brad richards 115 points and went in the 3rd round same year as Ribeiro.

For whatever reason offence in the Q is sometimes overlooked.
Because Its the weakest CHL league.

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02-06-2016, 05:13 PM
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1) Weak league.

2) Stacked team.

3) Dreaded combination of poor skating and lack of size.

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02-06-2016, 05:36 PM
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Because Its the weakest CHL league.
That's true.

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02-06-2016, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensinitis View Post
Jason Pominville scored 113 pts (46 goals) in 71 games in the Q in 00-01, and was drafted 55th overall (2nd round) in 2001. Why was he drafted so low?

He turned 18 in November 2000, which made him uneligible for the 2000 draft.
In comparison, Jack Eichel, 2nd overall in 2015, turned 18 in October 2014. That didn't affect his draft position. Is that what affected Pominville's?
Late + very offensive-minded league + wasn't exactly the Q Golden Age.

But he outperformed Ales Hemsky who was picked 13th the same year.

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02-06-2016, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensinitis View Post
Jason Pominville scored 113 pts (46 goals) in 71 games in the Q in 00-01, and was drafted 55th overall (2nd round) in 2001. Why was he drafted so low?

He turned 18 in November 2000, which made him uneligible for the 2000 draft.
In comparison, Jack Eichel, 2nd overall in 2015, turned 18 in October 2014. That didn't affect his draft position. Is that what affected Pominville's?
The Draft "cutoff date" is September 15th.... He was an older prospect....

I think at that age a year makes a huge difference as far as development... In my draft (I was born September 17th) and my draft year given that would have been 1999, guess who was born on September 16th the same year as me? the bust that went 1st overall....

Same goes for many players, look at Ovechkin - he was born September 17th, so he had a year - he too went 1st overall...

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02-06-2016, 11:45 PM
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Late + very offensive-minded league + wasn't exactly the Q Golden Age.

But he outperformed Ales Hemsky who was picked 13th the same year.
Because Oilers!

In all seriousness though, Hemsky was a pretty good (albeit not great) player for us through a pretty horrible time. He was worth the first-round pick.

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The Draft "cutoff date" is September 15th.... He was an older prospect....

I think at that age a year makes a huge difference as far as development... In my draft (I was born September 17th) and my draft year given that would have been 1999, guess who was born on September 16th the same year as me? the bust that went 1st overall....

Same goes for many players, look at Ovechkin - he was born September 17th, so he had a year - he too went 1st overall...
My favorite part about this fact is the Panthers org's attempt to draft Ovechkin in the 2003 draft because of leap years...

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02-06-2016, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Gold Extractor View Post
Because Oilers!

In all seriousness though, Hemsky was a pretty good (albeit not great) player for us through a pretty horrible time. He was worth the first-round pick.



My favorite part about this fact is the Panthers org's attempt to draft Ovechkin in the 2003 draft because of leap years...
Leave Rick Dudley alone he was just trying to pull what Quinn did with Bure to an extent.

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02-07-2016, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Gold Extractor View Post
Because Oilers!

In all seriousness though, Hemsky was a pretty good (albeit not great) player for us through a pretty horrible time. He was worth the first-round pick.



My favorite part about this fact is the Panthers org's attempt to draft Ovechkin in the 2003 draft because of leap years...
Yeah attempting to claim he was really 4 days younger than what he was...

Hey I had the same problem when I went into school... at the time the "cutoff" date was September 20th so I went into kindergarten as the youngest kid in the class (4-years-old)...

Having a mid September b-day is a real problem lol... You're either the oldest or youngest in anything you do that requires a "cutoff date"....

I suppose players that have birthdays from September 16th-November go higher than other players, just because they have an extra year...

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02-07-2016, 08:47 AM
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Dreaded combination of poor skating and lack of size.
Who needs good skating when you can simply walk around Alfredsson?

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02-07-2016, 12:08 PM
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Late + very offensive-minded league + wasn't exactly the Q Golden Age.

But he outperformed Ales Hemsky who was picked 13th the same year.
Pominville had more points than Hemsky, but when you look at their situations Hemsky's production (for a mediocre team with not nearly the supporting cast) was more impressive.

Also, Hemsky had elite skating ability at that age while Pominville's skating was considered suspect. And Hemsky was quite a bit younger.

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02-07-2016, 12:55 PM
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Combination of things- More to hockey than points plus the stacked team argument.

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02-07-2016, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
The Draft "cutoff date" is September 15th.... He was an older prospect....

I think at that age a year makes a huge difference as far as development... In my draft (I was born September 17th) and my draft year given that would have been 1999, guess who was born on September 16th the same year as me? the bust that went 1st overall....

Same goes for many players, look at Ovechkin - he was born September 17th, so he had a year - he too went 1st overall...
I must be missing your point. Eichel had the same extra development time as Pominville, and it did not affect his draft position at all. He obviously was assessed as a generational talent, but I'm sure I can find more examples.

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02-07-2016, 01:24 PM
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I must be missing your point. Eichel had the same extra development time as Pominville, and it did not affect his draft position at all. He obviously was assessed as a generational talent, but I'm sure I can find more examples.
God forbid that 2nd overall slot...

You may be missing my point... My point is that players that have an extra year to really show themselves will destroy the league because basically they have an extra year to develop before they're drafted....


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02-07-2016, 01:27 PM
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All of these posts make sense, but can't it be said that such evaluations were/are at least partly wrong?
Because, despite the said deficiencies, prime Pominville was one of the better wingers in the league, and a team captain (don't know how good of a captain he was though).

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02-07-2016, 01:30 PM
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God forbid that 2nd overall slot...
I'm really not following...that's exactly what I'm saying. Being picked 2nd overall means no one overlooked Eichel for being older...

Care to replace the oddly-placed sarcasm with a more elaborated explanation?

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02-07-2016, 01:38 PM
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I'm really not following...that's exactly what I'm saying. Being picked 2nd overall means no one overlooked Eichel for being older...

Care to replace the oddly-placed sarcasm with a more elaborated explanation?
What I'm saying is that the "cutoff" date is September 15th so if you're born on the 16th then you will have another year before you're drafted and if you're born on the 14th you will be the youngest in your class...

My point is a guy born on September 14th 1980 would be eligible for the the 1998 draft and a guy born on September 16th won't he will have to wait until the 1999 draft... Hence the guy born just two days later gets an entire year to dominate and be the oldest in the league and probably be drafted higher.

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02-07-2016, 01:40 PM
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People didn't overlook him because he as an older draftee, I imagine that birthday plays a very small part in scouting( Tavares was born 1 day after the draft cutoff and went 1st). People overlooked him because he's soft, inconsistent and at times lazy which is pretty much exactly what he's been in his career.

Classic bad team scorer, not a bad player but he wouldn't fit into most contenders top 6 and is not suited for bottom 6 play.

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02-07-2016, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sensinitis View Post
I'm really not following...that's exactly what I'm saying. Being picked 2nd overall means no one overlooked Eichel for being older...

Care to replace the oddly-placed sarcasm with a more elaborated explanation?
Within the last ten years Hockey Québec changed their hockey year from October 1 to September 30, in tune with the Quebec school year to the calendar year Jan 1 to Dec.31 in tune with hockey throughout North America.

Jason Pominville developed under the old Hockey Quebec hockey year. Born November 30th, 1982, he was amongst the oldest players in his specific hockey year up until junior. Today he would be amongst the youngest. Hemsky born August 13,1983 would be in the middle/young group. Major difference between the two in terms of development. Pominville was mobile, more than likely walking while Hemsky was a newborn.

Even if rated equal for the 2001 NHL Entry Draft,both were born between September 16,1982 and September 15, 1983, Hemsky would be viewed as having more upside, higher ceiling.

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02-07-2016, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
What I'm saying is that the "cutoff" date is September 15th so if you're born on the 16th then you will have another year before you're drafted and if you're born on the 14th you will be the youngest in your class...

My point is a guy born on September 14th 1980 would be eligible for the the 1998 draft and a guy born on September 16th won't he will have to wait until the 1999 draft... Hence the guy born just two days later gets an entire year to dominate and be the oldest in the league and probably be drafted higher.
Well EXACTLY. That is Pominville's case. He had that entire year to dominate, but was NOT drafted that high. Unless you're arguing that he was a 5th-3rd round talent that got drafter in the 2nd round due to having that extra year, but you never made that clear.

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02-07-2016, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sensinitis View Post
I must be missing your point. Eichel had the same extra development time as Pominville, and it did not affect his draft position at all. He obviously was assessed as a generational talent, but I'm sure I can find more examples.
You'll find countless examples of players who put up huge scoring totals in junior, yet weren't drafted highly. Pominville actually went pretty high, relatively speaking. There are many others with similar junior careers who never even got drafted.

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02-07-2016, 02:11 PM
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Well EXACTLY. That is Pominville's case. He had that entire year to dominate, but was NOT drafted that high. Unless you're arguing that he was a 5th-3rd round talent that got drafter in the 2nd round due to having that extra year, but you never made that clear.
That was my point... He was a 2nd round pick because he was older....

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