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Old
03-16-2014, 08:50 AM
  #201
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Arena

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Originally Posted by ICM1970 View Post
Interesting find. If you look over, there is a discussion about bringing the NHL to Buffalo. One wonders how different things would have been in that respect? I guess that the NHL settled upon New York City, Chicago, and Detroit for expanding in 1926, in addition to the franchise that they had in Boston and then went into Pittsburgh. New York Americans were the result of the Tigers move from Hamilton of course.
Saw that but doubt that Buffalo had a suitable arena as the Auditorium was built in time for the fall of 1940.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo...ial_Auditorium

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03-16-2014, 02:47 PM
  #202
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February 19, 1935,Hartland B MacDougall, by D.A.L. MacDonald

Another installment in the Turning Back hockey's Pages series, looks at Hartland B. MacDougall but features an account of an interesting exhibition between the Montréal Victorias and a college team from Providence , R. I. 1/2 hour featuring each set of rules. Americans and Ice Polo, Canadians early hockey. différences are quite striking.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6627%2C2219632

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03-16-2014, 02:56 PM
  #203
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Saw that but doubt that Buffalo had a suitable arena as the Auditorium was built in time for the fall of 1940.
No, they didnt. There was however the Peace Bridge Arena in Fort Erie Ontario, just 3 blocks from the Border Crossing which went up in 1928. Truss-less construction with excellent sight-lines but it only sat 5000. The Pittsburgh Pirates & Chicago Blackhawks both used it as a tremporary home, the Buffalo Bisons (CPHL in 28-IHL in 30-AHL in 36) using it as their permanent home before moving to first Niagara Falls (Peace Bridge Arena collapsed) & then Buffalo proper. Interestingly it was built there as it was right across the border during Prohibition (along with a number of other "entertainments"), so Americans could zip across the border and imbibe in Canada without fear of getting busted. Had Prohibition lasted, who knows? Booze & entertainment, hockey included, along with Boxing events & so on easy draws for the promoters to Fort Erie from Buffalo & Western New York.

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03-16-2014, 02:56 PM
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February 21, 1935 , Archie McNaughton by D.A.L. MacDonald

Another in the Turning Back Hockey's Pages series. Archie McNaughton. Profile of an all around athlete, soldier.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6649%2C2471032

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03-16-2014, 03:03 PM
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February 16, 1935, William B. Scott by D.A.L. MacDonald

Another installment in the Turning Back Hockey's Pages. William B. Scott. 1878 - 1898 Québec Victorias.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6671%2C1941424

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03-16-2014, 03:12 PM
  #206
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February 22, 1935, Pete "Pit" Lepine by Marc T. McNeil

Another installment in the From a Rink-side Seat series Features Pit lepine. Interesting comparable to Frank Nighbor. Chronicles his career from his grade scholl days in Ste Anne de Bellevue. Good overview of hockey in the Montreal area. Particularly important is the strength of the teams in the Bankers League - two future NHL players playing together - Pit Lepine and Albert Leduc. Solid long term regulars, not just call-ups.:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6630%2C2616569

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03-16-2014, 04:25 PM
  #207
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Fort Erie.

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No, they didnt. There was however the Peace Bridge Arena in Fort Erie Ontario, just 3 blocks from the Border Crossing which went up in 1928. Truss-less construction with excellent sight-lines but it only sat 5000. The Pittsburgh Pirates & Chicago Blackhawks both used it as a tremporary home, the Buffalo Bisons (CPHL in 28-IHL in 30-AHL in 36) using it as their permanent home before moving to first Niagara Falls (Peace Bridge Arena collapsed) & then Buffalo proper. Interestingly it was built there as it was right across the border during Prohibition (along with a number of other "entertainments"), so Americans could zip across the border and imbibe in Canada without fear of getting busted. Had Prohibition lasted, who knows? Booze & entertainment, hockey included, along with Boxing events & so on easy draws for the promoters to Fort Erie from Buffalo & Western New York.
Still not in time for 1925-26. Nice combination with the racetrack given the horse racing interests of a number of NHL owners.

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03-18-2014, 12:06 PM
  #208
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1927 Montreal Victorias Tour Europe, February 23, 1935

Another installment of the Turning Back Hockey's Pages by D.A.L. MacDonald looks at the first non-Olympic hockey tour of Europe by a Canadian team - the Montréal Victorias during the winter of 1927:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...5572%2C2760311

Impressive crowds in Stockholm and elsewhere.

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03-18-2014, 12:15 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
...the first non-Olympic hockey tour of Europe by a Canadian team - the Montréal Victorias during the winter of 1927:
Ya isnt this fascinating..... Scored 157 Goals in just 17 games.... a bottle of
champagne for each..... practiced on the frozen Baltic... King Gustav.... what a trip.

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03-18-2014, 12:20 PM
  #210
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Bob MacDougall, February 26, 1935.

Another installment in the Turning Back Hockey's Pages by D.A.L. MacDonald.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6686%2C3040131

This one features Bob MacDougall.

Significant for two reasons. First it relates that Bob MacDougall played his school hockey at Lennoxville School in the 1890 time frame. Today Lennoxville, by expressway is app 2-2 1/4 hours SE of Montreal, just below Sherbrooke.

The article also touches on the incident involving Tony Gingras in the Stanley Cup Finals.

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03-18-2014, 12:28 PM
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Leroy Goldsworthy, February 27, 1935

An installment from the From a Rink-side Seat series by Marc T. McNeil:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...5155%2C3185017

Leroy Goldsworthy, Minnesota born, Edmonton raised. gave insight into the path from school hockey in western Canada(Edmonton) to the PCHA/WCHL/WHL. Rather interesting from the standpoint that Leroy Goldsworthy turned pro at the age of 17 yet was a very pedestrian NHL player. Raises questions about the depth of western Canada developmental hockey in the early twenties.

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03-18-2014, 12:41 PM
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^^^ Lennoxville School was re-named Bishops (attached to Bishops University) was it not? As in BCS? Rather high end, former alma mater to the Molsons along with other wealthy families from Quebec, Ontario, the UK etc. Serious Old Boys Network like Upper Canada College in Toronto though somewhat less stodgy. The article mentions MacDougall as being an excellent all-round athlete including Tennis. a "Gentlemans Game" at the turn of the Century & through the mid 20th so that incident & MacDougalls' response in dealing with it rather a-typical of late Victorian & Edwardian sensibilities, the spirit of sportsmanship & respect of paramount importance, that sport was as much about character as it was competition.... BCS hired former pro Stephan LeBeau to head up an U17 & U13 elite hockey program some years ago, competing in the LHPS (Prep School Scholastic Hockey League). I know several people who attended the University & BCS, though many years ago.

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03-18-2014, 12:46 PM
  #213
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Background

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^^^ Lennoxville School was re-named Bishops (attached to Bishops University) was it not? As in BCS? Rather high end, former alma mater to the Molsons along with other wealthy families from Quebec, Ontario, the UK etc. Serious Old Boys Network like Upper Canada College in Toronto though somewhat less stodgy. The article mentions MacDougall as being an excellent all-round athlete including Tennis. a "Gentlemans Game" at the turn of the Century & through the mid 20th so that incident & MacDougalls' response in dealing with it rather a-typical of late Victorian & Edwardian sensibilities, the spirit of sportsmanship & respect of paramount importance, that sport was as much about character as it was competition.... BCS hired former pro Stephan LeBeau to head up an U17 & U13 elite hockey program some years ago, competing in the LHPS (Prep School Scholastic Hockey League). I know several people who attended the University & BCS, though many years ago.
Lennoxville School became Bishop's College School prep to Bishop's University.

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03-19-2014, 10:25 AM
  #214
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Bill Cook, January 30, 1936, Hockey Close-ups

A new series by Marc T. McNeil appeared during the 1935-36 season. The Bill Cook installment is rather sparse except for the recognition of Cook as the greatest ever by notable hockey men:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6800%2C3550770

Also, scrolling right reveals that as part of the Nelson Crutchfield benefit game there was a 7 vs 7 game - old rules with a rover exhibition featuring Newsy Lalonde. Will see if more info is available post game.

Nelson Crutchfield Benefit Game January 31, 1936:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=6717%2C94792

Hard time staying onside in the 7 vs 7 game.


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03-19-2014, 06:22 PM
  #215
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February 6, 1936 Hockey Close-ups. A One Team Montreal

Rather interesting short overview of the Canadiens/Maroons battle for the Montreal market after the Canadiens 1935 Forum lease renewal and ownership change. Also more and more you see nostalgia or historical snippets entering the hockey pages. Few comments about the Victoria oldtimers and early hockey trainers:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...=6777%2C656893

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03-19-2014, 06:27 PM
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February 10, 1936 Olympic Eligibility Questions

February 10, 1936, eligibility questions were raised about the British team in the upcoming Winter Games:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7045%2C1087093

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03-19-2014, 06:39 PM
  #217
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1936 NHL Scouting and Referees

D.A.L. MacDonald also wrote a regular column in the Gazette titled Sports on Parade.

February 11, 1936 edition is particularly interesting as it mentions NHL scouts going over to Europe to scout the hockey games at the Winter Olympics and throws in a segment about NHL referees starting to wear shinpads.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6977%2C1242406

Seems that the NHL was actively aware of international hockey much earlier than believed previously.

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03-19-2014, 06:51 PM
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^^^ Lots of interesting snippets in the above. Al Sutphin of Cleveland up hovering around circa 33/35 before his new building opened up in Cleveland, one of the finest in the US at that time.... also just anecdotally, the story of the heat lamp in the Montreal dressing room blowing its bulb resulting in some small amount of hysterics amongst the players while in the Leafs dressing room, a "morgue like" atmosphere with Smythe roving the building like a pent up Tiger in a Zoo no doubt, he & Dick Irvin answering questions in monosyllables if at all. Both they & their team wound up tighter than tops. Frankly, I prefer Montreals pre-game attitude. Serious, deadly serious sure enough but no point in giving yourself an ulcer. You get wound up too tight, wind up gripping your stick far too tightly, terrified of making a mistake. Big difference between Montreal & Toronto's approach right there and not just in the 30's.

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03-19-2014, 07:00 PM
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1936 Post Olympic Plans For a Six Team League in London

Post Olympic plans for a six team league in London, England starting in 1937 were unveiled. Leo Dandurand mentioned:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6750%2C2113645

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03-19-2014, 07:24 PM
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February 11, 1936 edition is particularly interesting as it mentions NHL scouts going over to Europe to scout the hockey games at the Winter Olympics
The column doesn't mention the Winter Olympics (although the timing, February 1936, is seductive for sure) and in fact it doesn't actually say NHL scouts were headed to Europe. What it actually says is: "If the present rate of migration of good Canadian hockey material to England and the continent continues, it's going to be a costly business for the N.H.L. clubs to maintain their scouting activities. Instead of the ivory hunters being sent out to dig up prospects in the Canadian west or at Allan and Memorial Cup finals, they will be off to Europe...". So what MacDonald actually does is to make a prediction based on the fact that more and more Canadian talents chose to play in Europe. He doesn't say NHL scouts were in fact heading to Europe in February 1936.

Will see that I can post something on the 1920/30s transatlantic link Canada - England in the coming days.

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03-19-2014, 07:45 PM
  #221
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Post Olympic plans for a six team league in London, England starting in 1937 were unveiled. Leo Dandurand mentioned:
Indeed. A lot of controversy swirling around Great Britains upset win in 1936 Winter Games at Garmisch-Partenkirchen; aka "The Nazi Olympic's". Post WW1, a lot of Canadian servicemen stayed on in the UK while others who were born in England but raised in Canada & who had grown up playing the game in places like Manitoba & Quebec played for England in 1936. Basically ringers, excellent players who had played Jr., Intermediate & Senior in Canada. The Canadians launched a formal complaint against both England & France & the Olympic Committee upheld it, insisting all members of the French & English Teams must have been born and raised in their respective countries and if they hadnt been? Ineligible. Canada then dropped its complaint before the start of the Games against England, but bitterly, did not do so against France who's team was stacked with excellent Quebec trained francophones who in some cases were born in France but mostly were descendants of those who were.

Lost in this Brouhaha was the situation with Germanys leading hockey player of the day, who in 1930 was voted Europes Top Player by a leading French sports journal. Rudi Ball. Absolutely one of the best European players of the 20's & 30's bar none. Leader of the German Team in the 1932 Olympics as well. Problem though; Rudi was Jewish. The Nazi's banned all German Jews from competing in the Olympics. However, they made an exception to the rule as they realized theyd get hammered without him and additionally several of his team mates were threatening to sit it out if the ban in this single case wasnt lifted. So Rudi Ball demanded & received dispensation for his participation. And that was that his family, parents, siblings & cousins would be permitted to leave Germany forthwith as by 1936, the pogroms, anti-semitism, the ghetto's in which Jews were being forced & the horrors that followed all well on their way to becoming realities.... very interesting story.

With war on the horizon, Im afraid Leo Dandurands unbridled optimism following GB's Gold Medial had nothing whatever else to do with itself but fizzle out. It took Britain years to recover economically from WW2, some think it never really did, and a "luxury sport" like hockey not exactly "on" due to costs, from building facilities to amateur participation & development. Its pro-leagues since the 50's about on par with the Federal League and thats being generous.

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03-19-2014, 08:15 PM
  #222
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The Canadians launched a formal complaint against both England & France & the Olympic Committee upheld it, insisting all members of the French & English Teams must have been born and raised in their respective countries and if they hadnt been? Ineligible. Canada then dropped its complaint before the start of the Games against England, but bitterly, did not do so against France who's team was stacked with excellent Quebec trained francophones who in some cases were born in France but mostly were descendants of those who were.
I've read that elsewhere too, but from the contemporary newspaper sources a slightly different picture emerges: Canada didn't challenge the eligibility of Canadian-trained players with European passports, but only the eligibility of those players who had been suspended by the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association for playing abroad without CAHA transfer permission. Thus only two of the "Canadians" on the British Team were affected: James Foster and Alex Archer. The IIHF sided with the CAHA against protests of the British Federation, but the Canadians nevertheless allowed both players to line up after the Canadian honour had been challenged by the suggestion they were merely afraid to play a full strenght Great Britain. They stepped up to prove otherwise and lost 1-2.

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03-19-2014, 08:31 PM
  #223
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The column doesn't mention the Winter Olympics (although the timing, February 1936, is seductive for sure) and in fact it doesn't actually say NHL scouts were headed to Europe. What it actually says is: "If the present rate of migration of good Canadian hockey material to England and the continent continues, it's going to be a costly business for the N.H.L. clubs to maintain their scouting activities. Instead of the ivory hunters being sent out to dig up prospects in the Canadian west or at Allan and Memorial Cup finals, they will be off to Europe...". So what MacDonald actually does is to make a prediction based on the fact that more and more Canadian talents chose to play in Europe. He doesn't say NHL scouts were in fact heading to Europe in February 1936.

Will see that I can post something on the 1920/30s transatlantic link Canada - England in the coming days.
Suggest considering the totality of the article combined with the other European connected articles posted recently in this thread, 1927 Victoria in Europe, Leo Dandurand returning from overseas with interest in a six team British league, the influx of Canadian trained hockey players in Britain and France and other stated factors there is little doubt.

Leo Dandurand was an NHL coach, GM, owner, if he was not scouting... Likewise link the names on the 1927 Victorias, players and management. Canadiens and Maroons connections. They did not shade their scouting eyes during the trip.

D.A.L MacDonald new how to nuance stories to protect sources. Vital for writers of the era.

Look forward with great anticipation to your contribution. Really curious about going beyond the Canada-England aspect to the rest of Europe.

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03-19-2014, 08:45 PM
  #224
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C.A.H.A Transfer Rules

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I've read that elsewhere too, but from the contemporary newspaper sources a slightly different picture emerges: Canada didn't challenge the eligibility of Canadian-trained players with European passports, but only the eligibility of those players who had been suspended by the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association for playing abroad without CAHA transfer permission. Thus only two of the "Canadians" on the British Team were affected: James Foster and Alex Archer. The IIHF sided with the CAHA against protests of the British Federation, but the Canadians nevertheless allowed both players to line up after the Canadian honour had been challenged by the suggestion they were merely afraid to play a full strenght Great Britain. They stepped up to prove otherwise and lost 1-2.
C.A.H.A. transfer rules were very strict at that time especially internally in Canada where residency within a district was a key factor. Plenty of player rights disputes at the provincial senior levels about players playing outside their district of residence and/or before all the paper work had been vetted and rubber stamped.

That this issue extended across international borders is not surprising. Certain similarities exist presently.

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03-19-2014, 08:58 PM
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Suggest considering the totality of the article combined with the other European connected articles posted recently in this thread, 1927 Victoria in Europe, Leo Dandurand returning from overseas with interest in a six team British league, the influx of Canadian trained hockey players in Britain and France and other stated factors there is little doubt.
Early NHL interest during that time is not in doubt as far as I am concerned, just that there were NHL scout sent to scout the 1936 Olympics specifically is something we cannot gather from MacDonald's column.

The Canada-England link alone is interesting enough in my eyes, Europe beyond that no less of course, the challenge probably is to locate sources of information. We'll see.

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