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Do we have the softest team in the league?

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Old
08-03-2013, 03:23 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Yes, that's the gist of it. Somebody wins, somebody loses, and the loser is always said to not be quite good enough.
The Vancouver Canucks scored 8 goals in 7 games and 3 goals in the final 4 games.
Sedin combined for 2 goals and 3 assists or something.



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Yes. Retaliating for Weber's hit wasn't going to be the big difference maker in the series.
Maybe not in your opinion. But in my opinion, a team that stands up for its captain was more likely to show some fight on the ice.

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08-03-2013, 03:32 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Maybe not in your opinion. But in my opinion, a team that stands up for its captain was more likely to show some fight on the ice.
Maybe so. But the fact of the matter is that having one or more players suspended for a fight - be it Zetterberg, if he had retaliated, or someone else, was more than likely going to hurt our chances at winning that series.

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08-03-2013, 03:36 PM
  #53
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joakim andersson should start using his size. he is one of the softest player i have ever seen.


Last edited by landskronala: 08-03-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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08-03-2013, 03:37 PM
  #54
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I dont see how the Weber/Zetterberg incident is really relevant.

The team we'll see this upcoming season will look much different from the team thay got knocked out by the Preds. We're seeing a transition to younger players with Z and D showing them how strong they have to be.

This fighting talk is bunk.

At this point, best thing to do is stick to our puck possession system and adjust if needed.


Last edited by Townsend Beasley: 08-03-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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08-03-2013, 03:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Luongo was good enough to get to the finals, but not good enough to close it out?
The Red Wings were going to lose no matter what to a team that got rudely dismissed in the next round?
1. Precisely. Luongo was good enough to make it to the Finals and good enough to put Vancouver in a position to win some games in the Finals. He was also bad enough to cost them the series. If you're going to give him a pass because Vancouver was having problems getting goals, you should harp on him for going 7uongo in the losses. Was he the only reason they lost to Boston? No. Was he a big one? Yes.

2. Yes. The Predators were built to play against the Wings through years and years of experience. Everything that was a Red Wings weakness was a Predators strength. When they win, the Wings are moving the puck around and cashing in on rebounds/deflections from good perimeter shots. The Predators gameplan was built on blocking those perimeter shots and clogging the shooting lanes. Those shots that weren't bogged down going through the Predators defense were snatched up by Rinne.

Their unceremonious thrashing by the Coyotes backs up my point. Once they weren't playing a Red Wings like team, they folded and got crushed.

The psychological edge you're talking about is nonsense in about 95% of cases.

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08-03-2013, 04:06 PM
  #56
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I would have said yes, but to my amazement the Wings physically abused Chicago for pretty much that entire series... so apparently the answer is no.

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08-03-2013, 04:11 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Maybe so. But the fact of the matter is that having one or more players suspended for a fight - be it Zetterberg, if he had retaliated, or someone else, was more than likely going to hurt our chances at winning that series.
How? If Bertuzzi, Z or Kronwall or Cleary smashed Weber back -- do you think the officials would have suspended them?
Did Malkin get suspended? Did Weber get suspended?
Would the league look down on the Wings for standing up for their captain?

And if one of our guys did get suspended, do you think Weber would have gone with them?

Regardless ... the Wings needed to stand up for Z and they didn't.
It was heartless. And we played heartless in that series.

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08-03-2013, 04:14 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
joakim andersson should start using his size. he is one of the softest player i have ever seen.
Andersson better do something, because other than being big and having a bit of chemistry with Nyquist and Tatar, he brings little to the table. And Sheahan, Jarnkrok and Ferraro are going to be pressing him soon.

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08-03-2013, 04:17 PM
  #59
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Babcock seems to have a strict policy of avoiding activity after the whistle, I don't think its have a lot of soft players its just a system that isn't overly physical. That on top of the wings tending to draft smaller sized skilled players because their first rounder is usually after the 6 footers are all gone Sure there are big guys but they are more bottom sixers that the wings sometimes let hangout with the top 2 lines


Last edited by Fedorov: 08-03-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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08-03-2013, 04:27 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Fedorov View Post
Babcock seems to have a strict policy of avoiding activity after the whistle, I don't think its have a lot of soft players its just a system that isn't overly physical. That on top of the wings tending to draft smaller sized skilled players because their first rounder is usually after the 6 footers are all gone Sure there are big guys but they are more bottom sixers that the wings sometimes let hangout with the top 2 lines
Yup. Babcock doesn't really believe in scrumming and most of the time doesn't see a lot of value in enforcers. If they can play well AND fight, that's great, but those players are pretty rare.

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08-03-2013, 04:32 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
How? If Bertuzzi, Z or Kronwall or Cleary smashed Weber back -- do you think the officials would have suspended them?
Did Malkin get suspended? Did Weber get suspended?
Would the league look down on the Wings for standing up for their captain?

And if one of our guys did get suspended, do you think Weber would have gone with them?

Regardless ... the Wings needed to stand up for Z and they didn't.
It was heartless. And we played heartless in that series.
Malkin didn't get suspended because they didn't want to kill the ratings for the Finals any more than they already did by dicking around the start of the series. There was no way in hell they were going to forcibly sit one of the biggest stars in the game on the biggest stage in the game for something like that. He didn't do anything suspension-worthy in the fight, it just happened near the end of the game.

Weber didn't get suspended because Zetterberg wasn't hurt. They said this at the time. Also, there was enough in what Zetterberg was doing with the cross-checking and jockeying for them to avoid suspension. If the Wings had a third guy go in and do Weber dirty (which is what you're calling for), they would have gotten the ban for the retaliation and Weber would not have gotten any more than he did.

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08-03-2013, 04:34 PM
  #62
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Fighting and crushing hits aren't a sign of toughness. Winning battles and being hard to take off the pick and getting up when you get knocked down are signs of toughness.

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08-03-2013, 05:58 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Konnan511 View Post
Fighting and crushing hits aren't a sign of toughness. Winning battles and being hard to take off the pick and getting up when you get knocked down are signs of toughness.
Agreed. This so much.

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08-03-2013, 07:23 PM
  #64
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fighting is part of the real NHL, the real hockey game, the way it is suppossed to be played

that said, no, icing a team of talentless goons will never win you a cup but nor will a talented soft team ever win the cup eith

its the perfect balance that wins championships

it is not tough to always skate away, sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and your teammates and if that means fighting so be it

those who dont like that concept should get the he.. out of hockey and move on to figure skating

Weber SHOULD have been targeted for revenge, physical revenge not scoring bullsh.. revenge

the message should have been sent that you will not target our captain or any of our other stars like that, case closed

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08-03-2013, 07:24 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnan511 View Post
Fighting and crushing hits aren't a sign of toughness. Winning battles and being hard to take off the pick and getting up when you get knocked down are signs of toughness.
have you played hockey before?

hitting is as much a part of the game as is skating, passing, stick handling, backchecking for christs sake

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08-03-2013, 08:09 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
have you played hockey before?

hitting is as much a part of the game as is skating, passing, stick handling, backchecking for christs sake
Good thing he didn't say it wasn't part of the game.

Speaking of standing up for a downed player, where were the Bruins in the 2011 finals when Aaron Rome sent Nathan Horton into next week?

They did nothing immediately after the hit and were unable to retaliate due to his suspension, but still ended up winning the cup. Does every single cheap shot need to be responded to, or are there exceptions?


Last edited by ArGarBarGar: 08-03-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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08-03-2013, 08:28 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
fighting is part of the real NHL, the real hockey game, the way it is suppossed to be played

that said, no, icing a team of talentless goons will never win you a cup but nor will a talented soft team ever win the cup eith

its the perfect balance that wins championships

it is not tough to always skate away, sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and your teammates and if that means fighting so be it

those who dont like that concept should get the he.. out of hockey and move on to figure skating

Weber SHOULD have been targeted for revenge, physical revenge not scoring bullsh.. revenge

the message should have been sent that you will not target our captain or any of our other stars like that, case closed
No, if the NHL was doing its job correctly (I know I'm contradicting my old post a bit, but whatever), Weber would have been suspended for a game. And Malkin would have been suspended for starting the fight in the last five minutes.

Just because the league doesn't follow its own rules for stars and punishes the result of actions and not the clear intent doesn't mean that the Red Wings did wrong.

The Red Wings did right by not retaliating against Weber in a dirty way. The NHL ****ed it up.

And Bertuzzi went after Weber. Sure, it ended up being patty cake more than a beating, but did you want him to pull a McSorley and assault Weber with his stick?

The Wings were outplayed in that series by a superior defensive team. The fact that they didn't "take revenge" on Weber had very little to do with it.

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08-03-2013, 08:28 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
fighting is part of the real NHL, the real hockey game, the way it is suppossed to be played
You should tell the Europeans that.

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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
have you played hockey before?

hitting is as much a part of the game as is skating, passing, stick handling, backchecking for christs sake
Why does it matter if he's played hockey before?

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08-03-2013, 08:49 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post



Why does it matter if he's played hockey before?
Playing hockey mean's you've probably experienced how physical intimidation chances a game

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08-03-2013, 09:04 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Playing hockey mean's you've probably experienced how physical intimidation chances a game
Agreed, this is exactly why Kronwall can be so effective.

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08-03-2013, 10:05 PM
  #71
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Agreed, this is exactly why Kronwall can be so effective.
Kronwall's hitting is an effective intimidation tool. However, I'm pretty sure the other team feeds off his cowardice.

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08-03-2013, 10:09 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Kronwall's hitting is an effective intimidation tool. However, I'm pretty sure the other team feeds off his cowardice.
Very doubtful. If anything it gets them off their game more trying to run around with no results.

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08-03-2013, 10:12 PM
  #73
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Considering how many guys on this team have been on deep playoff runs and cup winning teams, have been on international teams, etc., I'm not too worried about them being too soft. Whether they are the "softest" team in the league by whatever criteria you want to use, I don't know, but I don't see it as something to worry about.

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08-03-2013, 11:12 PM
  #74
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Very doubtful. If anything it gets them off their game more trying to run around with no results.
Very doubtful. If anything, they know they can facewash our guys and make them look like wimps and they'll just cower like turtles or hide behind officials.

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08-04-2013, 01:37 AM
  #75
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Very doubtful. If anything, they know they can facewash our guys and make them look like wimps and they'll just cower like turtles or hide behind officials.
Yes, numerous playoff series were decided by number and quality of facewashes incurred.

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