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2014 WJC Discussion [Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce invited to Camp]

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08-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #226
The Poacher
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Edit: Hmmm I guess this post doesn't really fit in with the topic, sorry. Anyways ya hopefully all three of our prospects make Team Canada, sounds like Gaunce will be a long shot though.


Last edited by The Poacher: 08-17-2013 at 01:02 PM.
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08-17-2013, 01:06 PM
  #227
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Meh Im not putting too much weight into Sutters comments. He's been a ppg player for two years and 30 goal scorer in the OHL. Also voted best defensive forward in the league by the coaches.

Im not worried about Gaunce. I think he'll turn out to be a really good 3C like a Paul Gaustad or possibly Rob Niedermayer type which I am totally fine with.

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08-17-2013, 01:31 PM
  #228
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On Gaunce - I believe when he was drafted, he was exactly as Sutter described. And what is the tragedy about him being a 3rd liner? Like the Canucks aren't in desperate need of a big bodied defensively responsible 3rd line centre?

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08-17-2013, 02:26 PM
  #229
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Poor Gaunce, it's his day to be piled on now

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08-17-2013, 02:34 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Bieksa#3 View Post
It's just personal opinion from my very limited viewing of Gaunce, therefore I shouldn't be critiquing him tbh. However, to me he has no wow factor to his game at all and I haven't seen much offensive creativity or edge that would make him be effective at the NHL level. For a big body I feel like he doesn't hit and take advantage of his size better. I understand and hope that these things improve through development as he is still young, but I'm keeping my expectations tempered.

A lot of my opinion has swayed because of Horvat though. There are people out there that believe that he only tops out as a 3rd line center at the next level. I find it hard to believe his potential is only 3rd line center because of what I've seen from him in games. I just don't get that same feeling whenever I see Gaunce and that's why I think he maxes at 3rd line centre. He plays too safe and too defensive minded imo. Where I feel like Horvat constantly pushes the pace and tries to make things happen offensively with a real bullish/Power game.

I understand and see that same difference in Gaunce and Horvat. Gaunce is too passive. He's not flashy, but then, I don't think a player needs to be to have a good offensive game. Vision and offensive IQ will see him through. Somehow, he finds a way to get to 30~ goals on bad offensive teams, and I don't think this can be overlooked.

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08-17-2013, 02:39 PM
  #231
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Pretty good summary from Sutter I'd say. Shinkaruk and Horvat with top 6 upside and Gaunce a future third line center who's still a ways away from getting there.

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08-17-2013, 04:13 PM
  #232
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Ehh, I don't see any of the three playing more than nine games with the Canucks this season. For developmental reasons I think it's best to keep them all in the juniors for at least one more year (to fine-tune their skills and get the most icetime possible), and Schroeder deserves the 3rd line center spot more than Gaunce right now. I wouldn't want any of them playing on the 4th line for a full season either.
It's a gut feeling but I think Bo makes the Canucks out of camp and impresses more than Jordan does and then the decision will be made.

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08-17-2013, 04:48 PM
  #233
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It's a gut feeling but I think Bo makes the Canucks out of camp and impresses more than Jordan does and then the decision will be made.
I would like for this to happen, then trade JS for a pick/prospect but I think Horvat has to be really good to stick this year

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08-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  #234
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Those will be the things that hold him back. He's too passive, and his puck skills/skating need to improve through development.

All told, I still don't see why such a player can't make it as a top6er. Gaunce has the IQ, passing and shot to play with other offensive players and not hold them back. He's just not a strong enough creator on his own. Therefore, I'm unsure why the 3rd/4th line ceiling is placed upon him?
It comes down to probabilities and likelihoods for a guy like Gaunce.

Can he be a top 6 guy in the NHL? Yes it's possible but also unlikely.

Can he be a solid 3rd line center with his skill set? Yes and it's more likely that's what he will become as he doesn't possess elite offensive skills

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08-17-2013, 05:07 PM
  #235
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I would like for this to happen, then trade JS for a pick/prospect but I think Horvat has to be really good to stick this year
I'm just that high on Horvat and I think he is physically and mentally ready after his dominant playoff run.

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08-17-2013, 05:11 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
It comes down to probabilities and likelihoods for a guy like Gaunce.

Can he be a top 6 guy in the NHL? Yes it's possible but also unlikely.

Can he be a solid 3rd line center with his skill set? Yes and it's more likely that's what he will become as he doesn't possess elite offensive skills

There are top6ers in this league that don't have elite offensive skills.

I just don't agree with a 3rd line cap placed on his projection. I feel it is premature, given his vision, IQ and shot. A player like him finds a way to be useful wherever in the line up he is.

It's a different thing to say it is unlikely he will reach the top6, to say that the 3rd line is his hard ceiling.

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08-17-2013, 05:45 PM
  #237
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Ok fellows, discussion:
How does Gaunce's puck carrying and puckhandling compare to that of David Backes?

BEGIN!

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08-17-2013, 06:29 PM
  #238
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I personally do not put any value into what Sutter says. Nothing in his past makes me think he is a good evaluator of talent.

I think Gaunce's ceiling is 2nd line center. Back to back 30 goal seasons may not be elite offense but it should still be given consideration as possible 2nd line talent. I believe the intangibles argument pigeon holes players like Gaunce into the 3rd line role. Just as it did with Kesler and look how that turned out.

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08-17-2013, 06:41 PM
  #239
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I think Gaunce is a pretty safe bet to end up like Taylor Pyatt. The fact he can play C and W makes him entirely more valuable than Pyatt.

I think his best season will be better than Taylor's and I think his prime will be longer.

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08-17-2013, 06:45 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I think Gaunce is a pretty safe bet to end up like Taylor Pyatt. The fact he can play C and W makes him entirely more valuable than Pyatt.

I think his best season will be better than Taylor's and I think his prime will be longer.
That's exactly who I have him pinned as. Hard wrist shot that can beat goalies clean but not much else offensively. He has better vision than Pyatt IMO but puck skills are similar and skating and mobility are near identical.

I also think he can peak higher and put up more points by virtue of his playmaking and the fact that he is a center. I can see him getting a few 40-50 point seasons in the NHL if everything works out for him. If he does better than this I will be pleasantly surprised

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08-17-2013, 07:28 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
I personally do not put any value into what Sutter says. Nothing in his past makes me think he is a good evaluator of talent.

I think Gaunce's ceiling is 2nd line center. Back to back 30 goal seasons may not be elite offense but it should still be given consideration as possible 2nd line talent. I believe the intangibles argument pigeon holes players like Gaunce into the 3rd line role. Just as it did with Kesler and look how that turned out.
That's kinda where my head's at too.

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08-17-2013, 08:59 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I think Gaunce is a pretty safe bet to end up like Taylor Pyatt. The fact he can play C and W makes him entirely more valuable than Pyatt.

I think his best season will be better than Taylor's and I think his prime will be longer.
Taylor Pyatt but with actual interest in body contact?

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08-17-2013, 10:20 PM
  #243
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Taylor Pyatt but with actual interest in body contact?
That's a very good player..

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08-17-2013, 11:15 PM
  #244
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I hate to discredit a coach of his ability, but... I believe this is the first time, or one of the first times he's seen Gaunce play, and the week, or three days that they played with each other shouldn't make Sutters assertions of what he will be, credible. However this is why you need to make a good first impression.

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08-17-2013, 11:46 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
There are top6ers in this league that don't have elite offensive skills.

I just don't agree with a 3rd line cap placed on his projection. I feel it is premature, given his vision, IQ and shot. A player like him finds a way to be useful wherever in the line up he is.

It's a different thing to say it is unlikely he will reach the top6, to say that the 3rd line is his hard ceiling.
Almost all top 6 player in the NHL show off elite skills and production at lower levels and sure Gaunce could rise over his 3rd line projection but he is already playing a bit like one in the OHL, with his size and physical maturity and production a top 6 placing seems unlikely.

Probably even more so with our current lineup at Center and Bo in the system as well.

It's almost a certainty that by the time Ryan and Bo are 1,2 on this team and Gaunce hopefully on the 3rd line doing well that another more offensive "top 6 " type of center will be drafted and in the system (5 years out).

Maybe Gaunce exceeds projections and expectations but the likelihood is that he will be a very solid 3 line center in the NHL (which is something the Canucks really need as well)

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08-18-2013, 03:28 AM
  #246
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If Gaunce turns out as a good third line centre, I am very happy with our selection of him. Sutter didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, although I would argue that he is close to NHL ready.

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08-18-2013, 03:33 AM
  #247
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It's a gut feeling but I think Bo makes the Canucks out of camp and impresses more than Jordan does and then the decision will be made.
While I'd be excited if true, I dont see it happening. Am really hoping He and/or Shinkaruk gets 8 games (or is 9 the cutoff) for some experience.

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08-18-2013, 03:33 AM
  #248
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I would like for this to happen, then trade JS for a pick/prospect but I think Horvat has to be really good to stick this year
I think they should probably throw Gaunce in the fire and move JS for a pick/prospect unless they give him a shot on the wing in the top 6.

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08-18-2013, 04:00 AM
  #249
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I think they should probably throw Gaunce in the fire and move JS for a pick/prospect unless they give him a shot on the wing in the top 6.
I could see that, although Gaunce would need a good showing in his 9 games for me to have any confidence in moving JS. I think we could return a nice project prospect for him. Preferably a winger

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08-18-2013, 04:04 AM
  #250
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Wait how the hell does Gaunce being described as a 3/4th line guy at the pro level end up being him being a long shot for the WJC?

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