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Who would you play with Jagr and Nylander?

View Poll Results: Who plays with Jagr and Nylander?
Martin Rucinsky (assuming he signs) 17 22.67%
Paul Kariya (assuming he signs) 5 6.67%
Alexandre Giroux 8 10.67%
Jamie Lundmark 19 25.33%
Chad Wiseman 3 4.00%
Garth Murray 0 0%
Jason Strudwick 1 1.33%
Jozef Balej (shift him over) 12 16.00%
Nigel Dawes 4 5.33%
Other (name in reply) 6 8.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-24-2005, 05:30 PM
  #1
Kodiak
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Who would you play with Jagr and Nylander?

Since this topic always seems to come up within threads, I thought we should have a poll and a separate discussion. So who would you like to see riding shotgun with Jagr and Nylander next year?

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Old
06-24-2005, 05:49 PM
  #2
Kodiak
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I choose Giroux for a number of reasons.

First, this is a rebuilding team. We've seen time and again how other, more successful franchise break in their young players--they play them with quality veterans, even if it's on a top line. Having an all-veteran line on a rebuilding team is just a wasted learning opportunity for a young player.

Second, of our young players that can play LW, Giroux is most deserving of this opportunity. Giroux's offensive totals have improved every year in the AHL and he led the Wolfpack in both goalscoring (by a fair margin) and total scoring (by a few points). Wiseman's numbers took a hit last year. So did Balej's, and he's a natural RWer. Lundmark came on strong in the second half, but I think if he's not playing center he should be riding shotgun with Holik (assuming he's still here). Giroux is the best option out of what we have.

Third, I don't believe the pressure is too much for a young player. Giroux would not be counted on to provide offense. That would be the main responsibility of Jagr and Nylander. Giroux would be asked to be defensively responsible, muck it up in the corners, provide support to Jagr and Nylander, and then contribute whatever offense he can.

Fourth, as I said early, Giroux has improved on his totals every year in the AHL. From 11 goals and 27 pts in his first year, to 19 goals and 35 pts in his second, to 25 goals and 51 pts in his third, and to 32 goals and 54 pts last year. He has yet to take an NHL shift and I doubt that anyone here has seen him more than a handful of times. Now is not the time to be pigeonholing our prospects. Now is the time to test their capabilities and maybe we'll get a nice surprise.

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Old
06-24-2005, 06:11 PM
  #3
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Good argument Kodiak

You've convinced me. I just want to see someone under 30 in that spot.

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Old
06-24-2005, 06:37 PM
  #4
mazmin
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It would be neat to see what a sniper like Dawes could do... but I doubt he's ready.

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06-24-2005, 06:41 PM
  #5
Barnaby
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I'd give Lundmark a shot - he'd really have some room playing with those guys. Secondly, Balej and Lundmark with Holik might be too much. Holik generally does best with a scorer and a banger. I figured something like this... b/c Giroux is a bit more physical...

Lundmark - Nylander - Jagr
Giroux - Holik - Balej

Of course things would probably change over the course of the season...

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Old
06-24-2005, 07:17 PM
  #6
NYRangers
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Prucha > All Options

...but when I suggested this last time I was called crazy since Prucha is "not ready for first line minutes" but apparently Giroux and Lundmark are. Has anyone been watching Lundmark? A whole 10 goals in 111 games.

Martin Rucinsky needs to be on another line. Theres no reason to stack our best 3 offensive players on the top line. Its not utilitzing your assets.

Balej is a right winger and is having his own trouble at his regular position.

We already know Prucha and Jagr have tremendous chemistry. I'm not going to buy that 'he needs to adjust' crap when your talking about playing with Jagr and Nylander. All he's going to have to do is be able to pass and finish shots. He would double Lundmark's career goals number in his rookie season. He'd get all the confidence in the world playing next to those two and it would help develop a top prospect.

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06-24-2005, 07:31 PM
  #7
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Being physical is why I wanted him

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
I'd give Lundmark a shot - he'd really have some room playing with those guys. Secondly, Balej and Lundmark with Holik might be too much. Holik generally does best with a scorer and a banger. I figured something like this... b/c Giroux is a bit more physical...

Lundmark - Nylander - Jagr
Giroux - Holik - Balej

Of course things would probably change over the course of the season...

with Jagr and Nylander.

With a C and RW as soft as those 2, having a different look to the LW like Giroux would lend some balance to the line.

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Old
06-24-2005, 07:55 PM
  #8
Kodiak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
I'd give Lundmark a shot - he'd really have some room playing with those guys. Secondly, Balej and Lundmark with Holik might be too much. Holik generally does best with a scorer and a banger. I figured something like this... b/c Giroux is a bit more physical...

Lundmark - Nylander - Jagr
Giroux - Holik - Balej

Of course things would probably change over the course of the season...
I agree with you, but I don't think that Balej is cemented into that 2nd line RW spot. If Rucinsky and Balej sign, I'd like to see something like this:
Giroux-Nylander-Jagr
Lundmark-Holik-Ortmeyer/Murray/Hollweg/some other grinder
Rucinsky-Immonen-Balej

Giroux can add grit to to the top line. Lundmark can ride shotgun with Holik. Holik gets a scorer and a grinder. Balej gets a playmaker and a vet. Immonen gets a goalscorer and a vet. IMO, it works for everybody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers
Prucha > All Options

...but when I suggested this last time I was called crazy since Prucha is "not ready for first line minutes" but apparently Giroux and Lundmark are. Has anyone been watching Lundmark? A whole 10 goals in 111 games.

Martin Rucinsky needs to be on another line. Theres no reason to stack our best 3 offensive players on the top line. Its not utilitzing your assets.

Balej is a right winger and is having his own trouble at his regular position.

We already know Prucha and Jagr have tremendous chemistry. I'm not going to buy that 'he needs to adjust' crap when your talking about playing with Jagr and Nylander. All he's going to have to do is be able to pass and finish shots. He would double Lundmark's career goals number in his rookie season. He'd get all the confidence in the world playing next to those two and it would help develop a top prospect.
Prucha is a valid option. His name must have slipped my mind while I was making the poll. I wouldn't argue against him by saying he's not ready. He's 23 and has 4 years of elite league experience. If he's not close to ready now, I don't think he'll ever be ready. I'd be concerned about the lack of grit in a Prucha-Nylander-Jagr line (one of the things Giroux has going for him) and the fact that it doesn't seem like Prucha is interested in coming over next year.

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Old
06-24-2005, 08:36 PM
  #9
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Giroux. I'm excited to see what he can do in Ranger blue, hopefully he's in the long term plans and has a good showing at camp or whatever...I'd be miffed if he just turned out to be AHL fodder. The only negative thing I hear about him is his lack of consistency. He must be consistent enough if he led the Pack in goals AND points.

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Old
06-24-2005, 08:37 PM
  #10
in the hall
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what other FAs are there?

(both restricted and unrestricted)

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Old
06-24-2005, 09:12 PM
  #11
Fletch
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Whoever wins the spot..

except for free agent signings, all prospects listed are sever suspects. Giroux is a 195 pound power forward. Lundmark and Balej had subpar seasons. Dawes is 20 years old and tiny. Prucha's pretty small and couldn't beat out other players to get playing time - so why would he be a top line NHLer - although he improved in the end, but likely isn't coming over. I don't remember the rest of the players...

Got the other names..Wiseman regressed. Strudwick's a stiff. Murray's no better than Hollweg who is at best a third line NHLer...and that's hopeful.

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Old
06-24-2005, 09:46 PM
  #12
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I don't mind Barnaby's suggestion to try Lundmark on the top line. But I kind of also wouldn't mind Wiseman. He's scored in the 'A' and could be good with other skilled players.


I'd like to see Lundmark play with Immonen and Dom Moore.


P.S. We're in agreement about who should play with Holik. Thing is I'd buy him out.

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06-24-2005, 09:52 PM
  #13
Onion Boy
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Martin Rucinsky.

I say sign Rucinsky. If someone else steps up in camp and shows first-line ability, then give them the spot. Rucinsky is a very versatile player and can play anywhere from the 1st to 3rd lines. On the other hand, I think it would be foolish to put a prospect on the first line just because he's a prospect. Putting young guys in top positions before they'd ready can retard their development.

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06-24-2005, 09:53 PM
  #14
Evil Sather
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I'd bet $20 Kip Miller ends up playing LW with Jagr. He follows him around (both PIT and WSH) and scores with him to boot.

It'll be great watching everyone's heads explode at his signing.

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06-24-2005, 09:53 PM
  #15
Onion Boy
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Giroux, IMO, would be perfect on Holik's left wing with a grinder on right wing.

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06-24-2005, 09:56 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
I'd bet $20 Kip Miller ends up playing LW with Jagr. He follows him around (both PIT and WSH) and scores with him to boot.

It'll be great watching everyone's heads explode at his signing.
I wouldn't complain.

Having spent the 03-04 season going to school in DC, I got to see alot of the Caps and I like Kip Miller quite a bit. Like Rucinsky, he's a very versatile player.

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06-24-2005, 10:05 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
Martin Rucinsky.

I say sign Rucinsky. If someone else steps up in camp and shows first-line ability, then give them the spot. Rucinsky is a very versatile player and can play anywhere from the 1st to 3rd lines. On the other hand, I think it would be foolish to put a prospect on the first line just because he's a prospect. Putting young guys in top positions before they'd ready can retard their development.

Agreed

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06-24-2005, 10:42 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Agreed
I don't. Why would you put 3 vets all on the same line? Then there will end up with lines like Giroux-Immonen-Balej or something ridiculous. The kids need someone like Rucinsky, Jagr doesn't need Ruucisnky, Nylander and him alone will be enough you could put anyone with them.

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06-24-2005, 10:59 PM
  #19
Onion Boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers
I don't. Why would you put 3 vets all on the same line? Then there will end up with lines like Giroux-Immonen-Balej or something ridiculous. The kids need someone like Rucinsky, Jagr doesn't need Ruucisnky, Nylander and him alone will be enough you could put anyone with them.
It's not about that. It's about having a backup plan in case nobody in camp really earns a spot.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any prospect on the roster who is ready for top minutes in the NHL...at any position. To be frank, I don't even think Tyutin is quite ready for top-pair minutes, and he's by far the best skater prospect we have.

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06-24-2005, 11:18 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
It's not about that. It's about having a backup plan in case nobody in camp really earns a spot.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any prospect on the roster who is ready for top minutes in the NHL...at any position. To be frank, I don't even think Tyutin is quite ready for top-pair minutes, and he's by far the best skater prospect we have.
I want Rucinsky. I never said otherwise. But using a top line of Rucinsky-Nylander-Jagr and having all kids on nearly the next 2 lines is a waste of Rucinsky.

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06-24-2005, 11:21 PM
  #21
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If anyone ever told me that 9 out of 10 hockey fans would take Martin Rucinsky on thier first line than Paul Kariya I wouldn't have believed it.
Everyone is assuming Kariya would demant ALOT of money, I don't think he is dealing from a possition of strength at all. The guy is a great skater and has way more offensive potential than Rucinsky. Everyone is saying how prospect wise we don't have any really good offensive prospects, just some good character type guys and a lot of goalies. I think if we know we don't have it coming in the system, and sorry we don't, that is where you go out and sign someone like that.

The only thing i'm wondering is it his concussion history that has everyone so against him?"

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06-24-2005, 11:24 PM
  #22
FLYLine24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers
I don't. Why would you put 3 vets all on the same line? Then there will end up with lines like Giroux-Immonen-Balej or something ridiculous. The kids need someone like Rucinsky, Jagr doesn't need Ruucisnky, Nylander and him alone will be enough you could put anyone with them.
Well the question was who would you want to play with Jagr and Nylander...at the start I want that person to be Rucinsky. If one of the kids shows he's deserving to play that LW or even Center spot then move him up for a game or so. Also I doubt Sather is just going to sign one foward...im sure there will be at least one vet on each of the top 3 lines.

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06-24-2005, 11:24 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers
I want Rucinsky. I never said otherwise. But using a top line of Rucinsky-Nylander-Jagr and having all kids on nearly the next 2 lines is a waste of Rucinsky.

That line will also get us into last place with Rucinsky being demoted to a lower line and having Renney trying everyone and anyone at the possition. I can't believe out of all the guys gonna be available everyone wants Rucinsky..........I musta missed something with this player, cause I don't see him as anything special.

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06-24-2005, 11:39 PM
  #24
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i am 100000000000000000000% against signing a veteran LW to play on that line. that IMO is the single worst thing the rangers can do because that makes the team too top heavy and will lead to the temptation to double or even triple shift jagr's line when the team starts losing...and if you only have 4-5 veteran forwards you can't put 3 on 1 line, spread them out so every kid has atleast 1 veteran on his line to turn to.

we need to sign a LW but NOT to play on that line...sign someone like rucinsky to play with balej and ?? on the 2nd line.

IMO the LW spot should go to lundmark, put him there and let him attempt to prove himself. lundmark deserves alot of the blame for his own struggles but the rangers deserve alot of blame too between not giving him ice time, not giving him quality linemates, making him play in a checking role etc.

well this is a way to wipe the slate clean and start over...and he has been around long enough that its time to take off the kid gloves and say 'sink or swim time'. basically 'here you go jamie...top line minutes in a scoring role with great linemates. time to prove you belong'

if lundmark steps up in that role we have a solid top 6 guy starting to live up to his potential, if he fails miserably then we know to get rid of him so he doesn't get in the way when jessiman, dawes, korpikoski, etc arrive...either way it benefits the future of the team and progresses the rebuild forward

putting a veteran there does absolutely nothing to benefit the team in the big picture...short term it might be an exciting line, but i'll take losing to benefit the future over losing to benefit nothing.

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Old
06-24-2005, 11:45 PM
  #25
BigE
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Nylander is a lock to play with Jagr then?

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