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MLB Discussion Thread, Part II: Yanks pay Ellsbury

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Old
12-04-2013, 08:01 PM
  #826
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I don't mind the current system. There's no cap, but there's certain restrictions to keep the league from completely revolving around money.

I think that drafting should be rewarded, but at the same time the more I watch the post-cap NHL, the more I think salary caps suck.

I liked when the NHL had good teams and bad teams. Now everyone's just ok, there's no separation, and everyone's beating everyone else. I liked it better when the 1 seed was a juggernaut and the 8 seed was just an ok hockey team. Now that matchup is a ****ing barnburner every year.

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12-04-2013, 08:01 PM
  #827
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you can sign every big name position player on the market, yankees don't find themselves at least 2 more starters its a waste of time

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12-04-2013, 08:09 PM
  #828
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Gammons saying that Tanaka's team is leaning against posting him now, ****

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12-04-2013, 08:36 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Gammons saying that Tanaka's team is leaning against posting him now, ****
That obviously sucks

I wonder how much longer they keep him then? 1 more year or forever?

Yankees may have to reconsider trading Gardner to help obtain SP.

I'm not that excited for Garza.

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12-04-2013, 08:47 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
That obviously sucks

I wonder how much longer they keep him then? 1 more year or forever?

Yankees may have to reconsider trading Gardner to help obtain SP.

I'm not that excited for Garza.
9 year reserve clause in Japan. Tanaka is set to be a free agent in 2015 offseason when he would be 27 years old. His team likely thinks they'd rather have Tanaka than the $20 million.

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12-04-2013, 08:48 PM
  #831
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Tanak's team wants to repeat. They want another championship

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12-04-2013, 09:06 PM
  #832
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9 year reserve clause in Japan. Tanaka is set to be a free agent in 2015 offseason when he would be 27 years old. His team likely thinks they'd rather have Tanaka than the $20 million.
Thanks

Yeah 2 years is probably worth 20mil to them & they can post him next year

Ok Yanks, plan B?

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12-04-2013, 09:09 PM
  #833
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If no Tanaka, have to imagine they will give Kuroda a few more million to urge him to come back. Supposedly Oakland will trade Brett Anderson next week, but he is always hurt, only 25 though.

I don't think the Yanks have any interest in giving big money to Garza, Ervin Santana, or Ubaldo. Scott Feldman could be a cheaper choice to be a number 4 starter. Go CC, Kuroda, Nova, Feldman, and open up the 5th spot to Phelps, Nuno, or Pineda, but can't really trust him at this point.

It's really not a great rotation, with Kuroda a year older and needing CC to bounce back, plenty of time left in the offseason, see if any pitchers become available in trades.

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12-04-2013, 09:10 PM
  #834
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The Yankees rotation can be good this year. Sabathia should bounce back to the 17-19 win range. Nova finally had command of his change up and it's just a lethal pitch. I can see him win 15-17. Phelps is better than Hughes. Kuroda may be back and Pineda is a real wild card.

They need to fix the bullpen and add a 3-5 starter. I'm happy with CC, Nova and either Phelps or Kuroda at 3.

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12-04-2013, 09:13 PM
  #835
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The new system does screw the yanks.. No team was going to outbid them in the Tanaka posting.

The problem with trading Gardner is that he is a free agent after this year. Its going to be difficult for a team to give up a decent starter for Gardner because he is not locked up.

I think they are going to have to trade a prospect or two and probably either Romine or Murphy to find a starter. Maybe, someone like Rick Porcello might be available.

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12-04-2013, 09:16 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The only adv the Yankees have is money, they should use it. They dont suck bad enough to get high draft picks, mlb has put a cap on what they can spend on IFA in a year now, and now everything mlb is negotiating in the new process for posting fees is specifically designed to keep Tanaka from the Yankees, so u know what screw them and I dont think they are done
You clearly don't understand how the draft works. This isn't hockey. You don't have to be picking in the top 10 to get a superstar. The Yankees were scheduled to have the 18th pick and their comp pick for Granderson would've been in the 30s somewhere. All star players go in that range all the time. Mike Trout went 25th overall with the pick the Yankees gave up to sign Mark Teixeira. David Wright went 38th. Jacoby Ellsbury went 23rd. Matt Cain went 25th. Cole Hamels went 17th. Michael Wacha went 19th. Those are just guys who went in the first and sandwich rounds.

So what I'm saying as a Mets fan and avowed Yankee hater is this: Please continue throwing massive contracts around and sacrificing all your draft picks. Your crap farm system makes you far, far less likely to have another period of sustained dominance. Please make sure at all costs that your system never produces another Jeter, Posada, Williams, Pettitte, and Rivera in short order.

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12-04-2013, 09:24 PM
  #837
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I would love Gardner on the Mets..

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12-04-2013, 09:27 PM
  #838
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If the Mets had legitimate owners, Robinson Cano would be prime target.

Heard a rant by Jeff Passan on Joe and Evan. He hit the nail on the head. This is a big ****ing market. 5th most valuable franchise in the MLB. As many fans as you could hope for. Remarkable untapped revenue.

It's amazing no one has filed a law suit against Selig for not ousting them yet. When it all boils down, Selig is an employee of the owners. As commissioner, he is essentially acting as the CEO of the MLB. Allowing the Wilpons to continue to operate as Mets' owners when they don't have the financial resources to run the organization to the constraints of the NY market is not maximizing the value of the league. He's playing buddy-buddy but really all that this is doing is putting the value of the league lower. Someone said on here a competitive league is a profitable one. This is a huge market. This is on Bud.

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12-04-2013, 09:29 PM
  #839
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I would love Gardner on the Mets..
As long as he stays healthy, and has a good year, he should get paid real well. Here are outfielders who are UFA'S after next season, could make a case Gardner is the best one available.

Quote:
Left fielders

Melky Cabrera (30)
Chris Denorfia (34)
Brett Gardner (31)
Jonny Gomes (34)
Tony Gwynn Jr. (32)
Scott Hairston (35)
Ryan Ludwick (36) - $9MM mutual option with a $4.5MM buyout
Darnell McDonald (35)
Seth Smith (32)
Alfonso Soriano (39)
Vernon Wells (36)
Josh Willingham (36)

Center fielders

Emilio Bonifacio (30)
Coco Crisp (35)
Colby Rasmus (28)
Denard Span (31) - $9MM club option with a $500K buyout
Chris Young (31)

Right fielders

Norichika Aoki (33)
Michael Cuddyer (36)
Chris Denorfia (34)
Scott Hairston (35)
Torii Hunter (39)
Nick Markakis (31) - $17.5MM mutual option; $2MM buyout if club declines
Alex Rios (34) - $13.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Nate Schierholtz (31)
Ichiro Suzuki (41)

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Old
12-04-2013, 09:37 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
You clearly don't understand how the draft works. This isn't hockey. You don't have to be picking in the top 10 to get a superstar. The Yankees were scheduled to have the 18th pick and their comp pick for Granderson would've been in the 30s somewhere. All star players go in that range all the time. Mike Trout went 25th overall with the pick the Yankees gave up to sign Mark Teixeira. David Wright went 38th. Jacoby Ellsbury went 23rd. Matt Cain went 25th. Cole Hamels went 17th. Michael Wacha went 19th. Those are just guys who went in the first and sandwich rounds.

So what I'm saying as a Mets fan and avowed Yankee hater is this: Please continue throwing massive contracts around and sacrificing all your draft picks. Your crap farm system makes you far, far less likely to have another period of sustained dominance. Please make sure at all costs that your system never produces another Jeter, Posada, Williams, Pettitte, and Rivera in short order.
I would care if the Yankees had any ability at all to draft impact players, hey thats one thing they have in common with the Rangers

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12-04-2013, 09:39 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Tanak's team wants to repeat. They want another championship
They dont want to lose their best pitcher for a lousy 20M

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12-04-2013, 09:59 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I would care if the Yankees had any ability at all to draft impact players, hey thats one thing they have in common with the Rangers
Well then your argument should be that the Yankees should replace Cashman and his scouting team, not that the draft can't help them.

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12-04-2013, 11:36 PM
  #843
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Mets get Granderson. Terms not yet disclosed.

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12-05-2013, 12:09 AM
  #844
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The Yankees rotation can be good this year. Sabathia should bounce back to the 17-19 win range. Nova finally had command of his change up and it's just a lethal pitch. I can see him win 15-17. Phelps is better than Hughes. Kuroda may be back and Pineda is a real wild card.

They need to fix the bullpen and add a 3-5 starter. I'm happy with CC, Nova and either Phelps or Kuroda at 3.


He also almost completely ditched his slider and started using a 2-seamer lot more. It made a world of difference. Mid 2s ERA since re-joining the rotation in late May/early June.

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Old
12-05-2013, 12:18 AM
  #845
Lundsanity30
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Mets get Granderson. Terms not yet disclosed.

had a feeling this might happen, knew they wouldn't spend for choo..

anyway, where did you hear this?

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12-05-2013, 12:42 AM
  #846
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So I was just listening to Mark Feinsand clip of him on Mike and Mike talking about the Yankees. He said the Yankees appear to be functioning under the assumption that Arod is going to be suspended for all of 2014, and if that were to happen, despite already signing Mcann and Ellsbury (as well as Johnson, ryan lol), the Yankees would be able to sign Cano for 25M maybe a bit more, Kuroda for 15M, Tanaka, and bring in a reliever, and still stay under 189. That is insane.

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12-05-2013, 12:59 AM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
You clearly don't understand how the draft works. This isn't hockey. You don't have to be picking in the top 10 to get a superstar. The Yankees were scheduled to have the 18th pick and their comp pick for Granderson would've been in the 30s somewhere. All star players go in that range all the time. Mike Trout went 25th overall with the pick the Yankees gave up to sign Mark Teixeira. David Wright went 38th. Jacoby Ellsbury went 23rd. Matt Cain went 25th. Cole Hamels went 17th. Michael Wacha went 19th. Those are just guys who went in the first and sandwich rounds.

So what I'm saying as a Mets fan and avowed Yankee hater is this: Please continue throwing massive contracts around and sacrificing all your draft picks. Your crap farm system makes you far, far less likely to have another period of sustained dominance. Please make sure at all costs that your system never produces another Jeter, Posada, Williams, Pettitte, and Rivera in short order.
And you keep supporting an organization that has been mismanaged for at least a decade. You keep collecting your picks and not doing anything with them. This is the same franchise that after spending millions on building a new stadium, they had to move the fences in because a pitchers ballpark did not support their team while their best player was an offensive 3rd baseman....

27 world series. The most recent in 2009. I'll take my chances with the yankees management decisions over the mets. Good luck with Grandy. He has a severe issue with recognizing the breaking ball especially when facing a lefty.

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12-05-2013, 01:33 AM
  #848
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Nice mixture of strawman arguments and classic Yankee fan bluster there.

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And you keep supporting an organization that has been mismanaged for at least a decade.
What does my Mets fandom have to do with my ability to notice that the Yankee farm system is terrible? Robinson Cano is the most recent homegrown impact player the Yankees have produced and he's 31 and a free agent. Does me being a Mets fan change that fact? Did you not notice the glaring lack of talent and depth available from the minors when the injuries started to hit last year?

The question isn't whether the Yankees stack up against the Mets going forward. It's whether they stack up against teams like the Red Sox and Cardinals that can both afford to spend money and are loaded with young talent.

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You keep collecting your picks and not doing anything with them. This is the same franchise that after spending millions on building a new stadium, they had to move the fences in because a pitchers ballpark did not support their team while their best player was an offensive 3rd baseman....
Again, I wasn't making a direct comparison between the Yankees and Mets. I have a post a mere three pages back in this thread begging for the Wilpons to be forced to sell the team. Take that as a hint on my views of their current direction. That said Sandy has done a great job building the farm system up from nothing. Having a ton of talented young pitching most certainly is helping us. Even with Harvey scheduled to miss the season, our rotation for next year looks something like:

1) Wheeler
2) Gee
3) Niese
4) Mejia/Montero/Syndergaard
5) Mejia/Montero/Syndergaard

If ownership was willing to spend on hitters we'd be in great shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
27 world series. The most recent in 2009. I'll take my chances with the yankees management decisions over the mets. Good luck with Grandy. He has a severe issue with recognizing the breaking ball especially when facing a lefty.
Let me ask you something: Do you give a **** about all those cups the Canadiens won decades before you were born? Because I sure as **** don't and that's how I feel about the vaunted Yankee history too.

And none of that bravado changes the fact that the most recent extended run of Yankee success was built upon homegrown players. Without Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Rivera, and Williams it never happens. All of those guys are either gone or about to retire. Where are their replacements?

I'm sure the Yankees will stay competitive because of their willingness to throw money around, but I wouldn't expect any more dominance if I were you. That farm system is one of the worst in baseball. We're entering an era where farm systems are becoming more and more important as the influx of cash into baseball means more and more superstars get extended by their own teams.


Last edited by Zil: 12-05-2013 at 01:49 AM.
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Old
12-05-2013, 03:13 AM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
So I was just listening to Mark Feinsand clip of him on Mike and Mike talking about the Yankees. He said the Yankees appear to be functioning under the assumption that Arod is going to be suspended for all of 2014, and if that were to happen, despite already signing Mcann and Ellsbury (as well as Johnson, ryan lol), the Yankees would be able to sign Cano for 25M maybe a bit more, Kuroda for 15M, Tanaka, and bring in a reliever, and still stay under 189. That is insane.


IMO pen is fine.

Robertson, Kelley, Logan, Betances, Warren, Joba, Marshall.

Robertson is one of the best RPs in the game. Big fan of Kelley. He pitched much better than his ERA suggests. 12K/9 is as good as it gets, needs to cut down on walks abit. Phelps could join the pen too.


EDIT: Cesar Cabral looks promising too.

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12-05-2013, 08:24 AM
  #850
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MLB, NPB Reach Agreement On Posting System

By Steve Adams [December 5 at 8:03am CST]

Major League Baseball and Japan's Nippon Professional Baseball have reached a basic agreement on a new posting system, according to the Japan Times. The new system will indeed have a maximum posting fee of $20MM. A formal draft of the agreement is currently being prepared, NPB secretary general Atsushi Ihara told the Times.

The Times report says the final details are being ironed out, but Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports spoke with a source who told him that if multiple teams submit the same bid, the player will be allowed to negotiate with all of those clubs. Only the signing club would be required to pay the posting fee, which still will not count against MLB's luxury tax (the ensuing contract, of course, will count). MLB fully expects Rakuten Golden Eagles ace Masahiro Tanaka to be posted, Rosenthal adds (All Twitter links). Rosenthal's report meshes with the details reported by Bill Shaikin of the L.A. Times yesterday.

The Golden Eagles, not surprisingly, opposed the $20MM maximium posting fee even when NPB's other 11 teams all agreed to the pact, according to the Times report. However, they have now accepted the system, meaning the new system has been passed.

The new changes should open Tanaka and future top players to negotiate with nearly any team, as the $20MM posting fee doesn't figure to be a deterrent for most big league clubs.

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