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Old
08-20-2013, 06:03 PM
  #676
Lemurion
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Thanks for the link on the Stars article.

However, the point remains, and is actually reinforced by the fact that Nichushkin already has a KHL contract. Russian players are pulled two ways, to the NHL and the KHL, and for many of them, the KHL is more attractive. It's that tension that makes them more of a risk as a high draft pick.

There's also the perception factor. With recent high-profile defections, it was a risk that Gillis just couldn't take.

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08-20-2013, 06:15 PM
  #677
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Maybe. Winnipeg's relationship with Evander Kane is also been publicly dysfunctional though, which has me raising an eyebrow.
Evander's Kane's relationship with the city has been dysfunctional. I got told by a hockey mom on the flight to Winnipeg that he did a dine & dash there. It does not matter if it is true or not, it is believed. It is a small city you need to behave or it will come out. Everyone knows your a Jet and what you are doing.

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08-20-2013, 06:18 PM
  #678
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Evander's Kane's relationship with the city has been dysfunctional. I got told by a hockey mom on the flight to Winnipeg that he did a dine & dash there. It does not matter if it is true or not, it is believed. It is a small city you need to behave or it will come out. Everyone knows your a Jet and what you are doing.
So they say. From my perspective, I'm starting to see a trend that leads me to believe the fans and organization are not being particularly fair to these players.

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08-20-2013, 06:21 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Jiri Hudler, Nikita Filatov, Nikolai Zherdev, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alex Radulov. Off the top of my head.

Blaming Winnipeg?

Hilarious.
you should re-read the question. you didn't read it properly the first time.

how embarrassing!

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Old
08-20-2013, 06:24 PM
  #680
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The problem is that they put him out there in tougher minutes than Jokinen got and he still did a better job. He earned more ice-time and certainly earned more PP time. Personally, I don't understand what their strategy was in developing him and now they've lost a very promising prospect as a result. They really should've given him a chance to play Top 6 minutes to see what he could do.
no no. ~russians~, man. RUSSIANs. russians

...russians

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Old
08-20-2013, 06:39 PM
  #681
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no no. ~russians~, man. Russians. russians

...russians
Утшпьфешс.

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08-20-2013, 06:55 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Couldn't read last post. So ridiculously long. How can people have an answer for every single sentence....seriously.
I skip over those novel length posts myself.

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Old
08-20-2013, 06:56 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Hard to put much stock in a ranking where Nichushkin ends up at #6 despite the statistical comparables being poorer than in Horvat's case. They seem to have no trouble putting a ton of stock into third party eye tests and small sample sizes for one player but not for the other.

Very much not sold on the elite projections for Nichushkin. Doubt there's much of a difference in ceiling between him and Horvat.
The ranking is their method in total. I don't put much stock into it overall, primarily because they seem to discriminate against 2way forwards. I just found it interesting that their methodology among 1way forwards propped up Domi and Shinkaruk while sinking Nichishkin. That's interesting to me because I expected Nich to at least hold to their preference for 1way high PPG forwards, but he didnt.

Nich has got a rare toolset, but each tool is not elite. I don't see one trait that stands at an elite level. Maybe his straight ahead speed, but not his skating overall. I just don't see it when I watch him play. Maybe he can develop it though...?

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:04 PM
  #684
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Overall getting Horvat, a talented and tough 2 way centre AND Shinkurak a fast and talented offensive player, makes this a great draft for Vancouver IMO. Nuff said. The wild card being this Russian guy who if he decides to make the NHL his career and give 100%, well Dallas is going to be very happy and other teams are going to kicking themselves

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:07 PM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
Thanks for the link on the Stars article.

However, the point remains, and is actually reinforced by the fact that Nichushkin already has a KHL contract. Russian players are pulled two ways, to the NHL and the KHL, and for many of them, the KHL is more attractive. It's that tension that makes them more of a risk as a high draft pick.

There's also the perception factor. With recent high-profile defections, it was a risk that Gillis just couldn't take.
The risk on top of a comparable upside. If it is proposed that Horvat tops out as a 60 point selke type, then Nich would have to be PPG to at least match him in overall effectiveness IMO. Just as a general thought. Is he projecting as that? Nash is even a 60-70 point forward and he is bandied about as Nich's upside. That's a tall order.

To me it's risk of the KHL and projection itself that speak against taking Nich at that position.

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:20 PM
  #686
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Horvat in London: What production would make you happy?

First thread start, so hope it gets some good discussion about one of our most exciting prospects beyond second-guessing his selection at number nine.

Basically, I'm curious what people are expecting for Horvat, production wise, in his upcoming CHL season. Of course that assumes he doesn't make the Canucks, but for the sake of this thread lets make that assumption.

Other assumptions (for the sake of consistency):

- He centres London's top line with Domi and, presumably, McCaron
- No major injuries
- Plays about 60-62 games, allowing a few games missed for the WJC

So what production would leave you:

1) Disappointed with his season
2) Satisfied
3) Happy+

I expect a lot of variation in answers, but I'll start with mine:

1) Disappointed: Under 35 goals or 80 points
2) Satisfied: 35-42 goals, 80-90 points
3) Happy+: 43-48 goals, 91-98 points

I capped my "happy" goals and points to where even optimistically I don't see Horvat getting too.

That's just me, not sure if its too high or low, but I'd love to see what other people's feelings are. Remember, these aren't predictions, just what would make you disappointed, satisfied, or happy with his offensive progression.

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:22 PM
  #687
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I would be satisfied with 70 points, and anything else is gravy for me. Another strong playoff showing is big too

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:26 PM
  #688
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has any player ever won two consecutive ohl playoff mvp's? that would be pretty amazing...

i'm more intrigued by his guaranteed world junior hockey championship and memorial cup appearances but that's just because i don't watch the ohl on a regular basis

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:28 PM
  #689
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As a top-10 pick who scored 33 goals last year, anything under 40-40-80 in ~60 games would be on the disappointing side. Anything over that would be excellent.

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08-20-2013, 07:32 PM
  #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Couldn't read last post. So ridiculously long. How can people have an answer for every single sentence....seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle1 View Post
I skip over those novel length posts myself.

Will try to keep 'em shorter next time. A lot of disagreement that branched off into other disagreement.

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:32 PM
  #691
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Burmistrov played in the CHL. He wanted to be an NHLer. Winnipeg ****ed that kid up.

A flight risk that shouldn't have been one, which just highlights the dangers all the more.
So did Radulov.

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:38 PM
  #692
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less than 1.25PPG would be pretty disappointing imo, if we're hoping for him to become a high end 2nd liner

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:41 PM
  #693
Bleach Clean
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1) Disappointed: Less that PPG (regression from this year)
2) Satisfied: Around PPG (what he did this year)
3) Happy: Well over PPG (beyond what he did this year)

Based on playstyle, I expect his line to be a about a 1:1 ratio of goals to assists.

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Old
08-20-2013, 07:45 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
you should re-read the question. you didn't read it properly the first time.

how embarrassing!
How many have left good teams for the KHL.

Kovalchuk - one year removed from a cup finals appearance

Hudler - Redwings were perennial contenders

Nashville- solid team

It's a cup out to blame the team. Do you blame the Canucks for Hodgson believing he was better than hank and Ryan? I don't.

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08-20-2013, 07:54 PM
  #695
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Hudler is Czech...

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Old
08-20-2013, 08:07 PM
  #696
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Hudler is Czech...
I know he is. He's a European player who left an excellent top tier NHL organization for KHL money.

I thought the main point was players don't leave good teams.

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08-20-2013, 08:09 PM
  #697
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I know he is. He's a European player who left an excellent top tier NHL organization for KHL money.

I thought the main point was players don't leave good teams.
Fair enough. I'm only half paying attention to this conversation.

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Old
08-20-2013, 08:10 PM
  #698
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How many games are we expecting him to get? World junior and possible look in the NHL likely shortens his season to mid 50's level in games played.

1.3-1.5 PPG is my expectation.

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Old
08-20-2013, 08:16 PM
  #699
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Isn't Hudler with the Flames?

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08-20-2013, 08:22 PM
  #700
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Isn't Hudler with the Flames?
He is. He left Detroit a few years back to go to the KHL. Then he came back.

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