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Old
08-11-2013, 03:06 PM
  #126
Christina Woloski
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Not a single scouting report that I saw had Horvat ranked higher than Domi, so pardon me for immediately thinking that it was going to be Domi when "London Knights" was uttered.
What are you even talking about......


Seriously.




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08-11-2013, 03:09 PM
  #127
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^ Shinkaruk at 5

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08-11-2013, 03:14 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
What are you even talking about......


Seriously.



well he did say 'that I saw'. The wording leads me to believe he didn't see any rankings at all.

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08-11-2013, 03:24 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Horvat screams Gillis BPA anyways. Guy has been hot for a giant centerman for two years now.

I'd be curious where the Canucks actually ranked Shinkaruk, too.
Horvat isn't exactly "giant".

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08-11-2013, 03:29 PM
  #130
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What are you even talking about......


Seriously.



That looks more like a list some random kid at HF made in the mock drafts board than Central scouting..

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08-11-2013, 03:39 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Horvat isn't exactly "giant".
He's at the precipes of being one.

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08-11-2013, 03:41 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't get this logic. If we feel that two "big risks" were the BPAs, then we have every right to say so. You can't just say that if we took Domi we'd take Dickinson over Shinkaruk. I'd like to believe the Canucks always(or at least, should always) take who they feel is the best player. Not try to balance some sort of imaginary scale.
That is in an ideal world, realistically Gillis' job may be on the line, if both of his first rounders in the deepest draft in the last 10 years, one of which was the return from a controversial goalie trade were to bust, he would be disgraced.

Plus, I'm not sure why you would want both domi and Shinkaruk, neither of theirs builds/games will translate to centre in the NHL. Who will be our future first line pivot?

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08-11-2013, 03:41 PM
  #133
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He's at the precipes of being one.
What? 6'0 is decidedly below average in the NHL.

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08-11-2013, 03:44 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
That looks more like a list some random kid at HF made in the mock drafts board than Central scouting..
Are you questioning the validity of CS? Historically, their BPA was generally the correct choice.

Excellent post from DJOpus:

Quote:
----------------1------------2------------3------------4-----------5
2004 - 26 - Schneider---- Bolland-------Graham----- Bolland------ Green
2005 - 10 - Bourdon------ Kopitar ------Kopitar----- Kopitar------- Skille
2006 - 14 - Grabner------ Sanguinetti- Vasyunov-- C. Stewart---- William
2007 - 25 - White-------- Petrecki ---- Mayorov----- Perron------ Katic
2008 - 10 - Hodgson----- Hodgson---- Hodgson------ Myers------ Petrov
2009 - 22 - Schroeder---- Schroeder - Schroeder--- Schroeder -- Schroeder
2010 - NA - (--------------------------NONE------------------------------)
2011 - 29 - Jensen-------- Saad ------ Grimaldi ----- Rattie---- Khokhlachev
2012 - 26 - Gaunce ----- Gaunce ----- Gaunce------ Gaunce ----- Finn

1 = Canucks
2 = TSN's pre-draft list
3 = International Scouting Services (ISS)
4 = Central Scouting Bureau (CSB) (they seperate NA from Euro, so I went with whover was picked 1st in real life to break ties)
5 = Redline Report (from NY Times, note they seperate FW from D so I went with whoever was picked first in real life to break ties) - I think Red Line actually compiles a sigle list but it wasn't available to me.

Interesting to note that in 3 of the 4 Gillis years, where we had a pick, we picked exactly who people projected that we'd pick.

I've always maintained that the Kopitar was the only major and hugely disappointing miss by the Canucks....CSB's list is ****ing amazing.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=112

I thought ppl would learn after they saw a glimpse of what our list looked like in 2010.

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08-11-2013, 03:44 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Callhee View Post
That is in an ideal world, realistically Gillis' job may be on the line, if both of his first rounders in the deepest draft in the last 10 years, one of which was the return from a controversial goalie trade were to bust, he would be disgraced.
If all he cared about was the media or fan reaction, he wouldn't have traded Schneider at all.

Quote:
Plus, I'm not sure why you would want both domi and Shinkaruk, neither of theirs builds/games will translate to centre in the NHL. Who will be our future first line pivot?
Certainly not Horvat.

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08-11-2013, 03:55 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If all he cared about was the media or fan reaction, he wouldn't have traded Schneider at all.



Certainly not Horvat.
It's too early to judge Horvat. It's definitely 50/50 at this point, I wouldn't dismiss someone so early on in their careers. Development is often not linear with prospects. I'm not sure Domi is a game changer, sure he will bring offense, but Hodgson brought offense and I wouldn't want him in our lineup.

Horvat is a more complete player already, along with his top tier defensive game; I along with many respected pundits believe that he has untapped offensive potential. He has great hands, great motor, good size, and good vision, I think a lot of fans will be signing a different tune about him this time next year.

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08-11-2013, 03:57 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Callhee View Post
It's too early to judge Horvat. It's definitely 50/50 at this point, I wouldn't dismiss someone so early on in their careers. Development is often not linear with prospects. I'm not sure Domi is a game changer, sure he will bring offense, but Hodgson brought offense and I wouldn't want him in our lineup.

Horvat is a more complete player already, along with his top tier defensive game; I along with many respected pundits believe that he has untapped offensive potential. He has great hands, great motor, good size, and good vision, I think a lot of fans will be signing a different tune about him this time next year.
I have nothing against Horvat. But anyone expecting him to become a #1 center with top line production will most likely be disappointed.

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08-11-2013, 04:07 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I have nothing against Horvat. But anyone expecting him to become a #1 center with top line production will most likely be disappointed.
I don't expect him to be a elite all-star who produces 80+ points. But I think its not out of the world to have his ceiling at a 55-70 points centre-man bringing Selke level defense as well as heart and drive. Someone in the mold of Patrice Bergeron as his best case scenario is not ridiculous.

Horvat is the prototypical Canadian captain, polite, doesn't quit, does what needs to be done to win. I don't believe Domi possesses those leadership attributes, if he stays with a contender for his entire career I doubt he would ever get a letter on his jersey.

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08-11-2013, 04:07 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What? 6'0 is decidedly below average in the NHL.
6'1 was the average NHLer last I checked, and Unless that's changed dramatically in the last 3 years, that's only a half an inch off for Horvat. Doesn't sound 'decidedly below average' to me. While that is not gigantic in itself, his large frame with room to grow is why I used the term 'giant.' 206 at 6'0.5 is a lot of mass.

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08-11-2013, 04:22 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Callhee View Post
I don't expect him to be a elite all-star who produces 80+ points. But I think its not out of the world to have his ceiling at a 55-70 points centre-man bringing Selke level defense as well as heart and drive. Someone in the mold of Patrice Bergeron as his best case scenario is not ridiculous.

Horvat is the prototypical Canadian captain, polite, doesn't quit, does what needs to be done to win. I don't believe Domi possesses those leadership attributes, if he stays with a contender for his entire career I doubt he would ever get a letter on his jersey.
There's a pretty big difference between 55 and 70 points. But regardless, Saying we shouldn't have taken Domi/Shinkaruk because we wouldn't have a future top line centre is pretty ridiculous, as there's very little chance Horvat becomes a future top line centre for us either.

Quote:
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6'1 was the average NHLer last I checked, and Unless that's changed dramatically in the last 3 years, that's only a half an inch off for Horvat. Doesn't sound 'decidedly below average' to me. While that is not gigantic in itself, his large frame with room to grow is why I used the term 'giant.' 206 at 6'0.5 is a lot of mass.
If his height is shorter than the average height in the NHL, that's decidedly below average. Not that I think his height will in any way hold him back, but he's certainly not a giant by any standards.

If you're 206 pounds at 6 feet, it's not likely you have much more room to grow.

When I think "giant" centremen, I think Kopitar, Getzlaf,Thornton, etc, standing around 6'4 230 pounds.

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08-11-2013, 04:38 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
There's a pretty big difference between 55 and 70 points. But regardless, Saying we shouldn't have taken Domi/Shinkaruk because we wouldn't have a future top line centre is pretty ridiculous, as there's very little chance Horvat becomes a future top line centre for us either.



If his height is shorter than the average height in the NHL, that's decidedly below average. Not that I think his height will in any way hold him back, but he's certainly not a giant by any standards.

If you're 206 pounds at 6 feet, it's not likely you have much more room to grow.

When I think "giant" centremen, I think Kopitar, Getzlaf,Thornton, etc, standing around 6'4 230 pounds.
It's not though, he'll be listed at 6'1" in the NHL. Half inches never get rounded down. He's definitely not a giant but he's average in height and above average in weight.

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08-11-2013, 04:44 PM
  #142
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It's not though, he'll be listed at 6'1" in the NHL. Half inches never get rounded down. He's definitely not a giant but he's average in height and above average in weight.
This is getting off topic. How NHL.com rounds their heights is besides the point. He's not a "giant" when he's slightly below the average height and slightly above average weight.

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08-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Although I'm afraid it's got me thinking. Domi's draft combine results were 5'9.5 If he grows even a half inch more he'll be the same height as or bigger than Patrick Kane, Mike Cammalleri, Derek Roy, Tyler Ennis, Ray Whitney, Kris Versteeg, Brian Gionta, Danny Briere, Brad Marchand, David Desharnais, Jiri Hudler, Steve Sullivan, Bryan Little, Ryan Callahan, and young players such as Jaden Schwartz, Brendan Gallagher, Cory Conacher.

Very likely I missed some players as well.
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If you're 206 pounds at 6 feet, it's not likely you have much more room to grow
Its funny. Domi is 5'9.5" 194 and you contemplated him growing another inch. But for Horvat 6'0.5" 206, it is unlikely to have much more room to grow and he is considered decidedly below average in height for a 1/2 inch.

Personally, I don't think either will grow much at all more. But there should be some consistency here.

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08-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #144
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What are you even talking about......


Seriously.



Shockingly King of ES gets owned yet again.

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08-11-2013, 04:52 PM
  #145
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Its funny. Domi is 5'9.5" 194 and you contemplated him growing another inch. But for Horvat 6'0.5" 206, it is unlikely to have much more room to grow and call him decidedly below average in height for a 1/2 inch.

Personally, I don't think either will grow much at all more. But there should be some consistency here.
I was referring in context to his weight, not his height. I don't see him putting on significantly more muscle mass without it negatively affecting his game. And I said if Domi grows a half inch.

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08-11-2013, 04:52 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
This is getting off topic. How NHL.com rounds their heights is besides the point. He's not a "giant" when he's slightly below the average height and slightly above average weight.
His height isn't slightly below average though, it's average.

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08-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
This is getting off topic. How NHL.com rounds their heights is besides the point. He's not a "giant" when he's slightly below the average height and slightly above average weight.
It's pertinent when perhaps 80% of the guys listed at 6'1 are actually being rounded up as well. It might be 20%, too. All we know is it falls into the range of 'average.'

That aside, this is a super tiring discussion. You're being much more stricter with the word giant than i am and i don't really care to argue abot that. It's all semantics here on out. He's above average weight especially for a 17 year old and i'm more optimistic that he's going to get bigger.


Last edited by Wisp: 08-11-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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08-11-2013, 05:07 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I was referring in context to his weight, not his height. I don't see him putting on significantly more muscle mass without it negatively affecting his game.
But you said "If you're 206 pounds at 6 feet". That specifically references height and your previous sentence reference height...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
And I said if Domi grows a half inch.
Fine, half an inch for Domi and he becomes included in the top players you listed in terms of height. But half an inch less than the average height in the NHL and Horvat is decidedly below average in height?


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08-11-2013, 05:12 PM
  #149
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It's pertinent when perhaps 80% of the guys listed at 6'1 are actually being rounded up as well. It might be 20%, too. All we know is it falls into the range of 'average.'

That aside, this is a super tiring discussion. You're being much more stricter with the use of the word giant than i am and i don't really care to argue abot that. He's above average weight especially for a 17 year old and i'm more optimistic that he's going to get bigger.
Your both arguing over hyperbole. There is no winner.

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08-11-2013, 05:41 PM
  #150
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Your both arguing over hyperbole. There is no winner.
I wasn't aware it was a competition.

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