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Offseason: Let's talk about movies (and TV shows)

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Old
08-24-2013, 08:10 PM
  #826
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I still say that DON KNOTTS would have made a better Batman than Ben Affleck!




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08-24-2013, 08:12 PM
  #827
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I think that anyone who still harps on the ben affleck thing didn't watch the Nolan movies.

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08-25-2013, 01:21 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Was Oliver Stone's Alexander as bad as people say?
Yes!

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08-25-2013, 01:27 AM
  #829
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I think you're being too literal. First of all, the hostage crisis wasn't exclusive Canadian history. The film was about the American hostages, the American-conceived idea of 'Argo', the Americans who implemented the rescue. Canadians have had 30 years to make their own version of the story; this was told from the US side. Yeah, some details were tweaked/exaggerated, but so what? Argo is no more or less accurate a depiction of history than any other historical film. Most important, judged purely as a piece of entertainment I thought it worked really well.

That said, my favourite film of the year was Life of Pi. Gorgeous, surprisingly strong screenplay and great story. Loved it.
Completely agree on Argo....it was an American story where Canadians played a part but a relatively small one. It is mostly just embarrassing Canadian insecurity complexes fuelling the backlash here in Canada.

I can't stand American flag waiving propaganda as much as the next person but people are barking up the wrong tree in the case of Argo

Haven't seen Life of Pi yet but I have heard that it is amazing.....definitely on the "to do" list.

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08-25-2013, 01:49 AM
  #830
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Best picture in recent years:

2012 - Argo
2011 - The Artist
2010 - The King's Speech
2009 - The Hurt Locker
2008 - Slumdog Millionaire

And before that you have a different style of movie, Gladiator, Chicago, and the Departed.

What the recent trend shows, in my opinion, is a preference for glorifying the political consensus. Both the King's Speech and The Hurt Locker made the US/UK, their elites, etc. look better than they deserve. I was actually expecting Zero Dark Thirty to win this year, because the movie is intrinsically pro-Obama... they even had Michelle Obama present at the Oscars, but I guess they want to raise attention as to the evil regime in Iran. It's not a perfect model, I also thought Contagion would be a good candidate because the movie is irrationally pro-government.

King's Speech in particular should have been disqualified due to its unnecessary historical inaccuracies.

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08-25-2013, 02:05 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Best picture in recent years:

2012 - Argo
2011 - The Artist
2010 - The King's Speech
2009 - The Hurt Locker
2008 - Slumdog Millionaire

And before that you have a different style of movie, Gladiator, Chicago, and the Departed.

What the recent trend shows, in my opinion, is a preference for glorifying the political consensus. Both the King's Speech and The Hurt Locker made the US/UK, their elites, etc. look better than they deserve. I was actually expecting Zero Dark Thirty to win this year, because the movie is intrinsically pro-Obama... they even had Michelle Obama present at the Oscars, but I guess they want to raise attention as to the evil regime in Iran. It's not a perfect model, I also thought Contagion would be a good candidate because the movie is irrationally pro-government.

King's Speech in particular should have been disqualified due to its unnecessary historical inaccuracies.
If historical inaccuracies disqualified films from Oscar consideration then there would be many past winners that would not have won such as Gladiator, Titanic, Braveheart, Platoon etc.

Just sayin'

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08-25-2013, 02:13 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
If historical inaccuracies disqualified films from Oscar consideration then there would be many past winners that would not have won such as Gladiator, Titanic, Braveheart, Platoon etc.

Just sayin'
King's Speech took itself more seriously, and thus the errors are more damning.

As for Titanic, James Cameron didn't have the captain run to the nearest lifeboat and survive. He tried and succeeded in capturing a lot that was relevant ... it doesn't bother me that the actual characters were not on the ship.

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08-25-2013, 03:17 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
If historical inaccuracies disqualified films from Oscar consideration then there would be many past winners that would not have won such as Gladiator, Titanic, Braveheart, Platoon etc.

Just sayin'
Gladiator was much more of a 'what if' than simply inaccurate stuff.

The succession from Marcus Aurelius to Commodus was hazardous and Commodus went on to re-instate a lot of games at the Colosseum. He even fought as a gladiator, probably in arranged bouts. He became erratic and was killed in a conspiracy that involved some of the guys we saw in Gladiator, such as Quintus. So Gladiator did not happen, but it could have and History would be exactly the same.

Titanic (horrible movie!) is the same. Most of the stuff is real and what they focus on is made up but it could have happened (sort of).

And I think this approach is much more honest than what we saw with the King's speech or Zero Dark Thirty, for example.

You can take some liberties if the story is already there, but when you take liberties in order to have a story to tell, i'm out.

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08-25-2013, 03:42 AM
  #834
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Gladiator was much more of a 'what if' than simply inaccurate stuff.

The succession from Marcus Aurelius to Commodus was hazardous and Commodus went on to re-instate a lot of games at the Colosseum. He even fought as a gladiator, probably in arranged bouts. He became erratic and was killed in a conspiracy that involved some of the guys we saw in Gladiator, such as Quintus. So Gladiator did not happen, but it could have and History would be exactly the same.

Titanic (horrible movie!) is the same. Most of the stuff is real and what they focus on is made up but it could have happened (sort of).

And I think this approach is much more honest than what we saw with the King's speech or Zero Dark Thirty, for example.

You can take some liberties if the story is already there, but when you take liberties in order to have a story to tell, i'm out.
It's not just about having errors to tell the story, it's about putting in errors to make the story more palatable to dim audiences.

There was no need for The King's Speech to completely transform Winston Churchill's position in the whole deal. They could have made a movie without it. The reason they did so, that they put Churchill with the "good guy", is because audiences have a skewed historical perspective of Churchill, they love Churchill, and thus by having Churchill side with George VI they are guiding the audience to better like George VI. It's a very crude storytelling advice, it appeals to audience emotions that are external to the movie itself, and it is a historical lie.

For me, King's Speech would be a much better movie with Churchill completely removed. However, they put Churchill in there because he might be the only thing about 1930s England that audiences have heard of, and he is associated with "the good" (like motherhood and mother theresa and jesus and apple pie), making him an effective plot device.

It's equivalent to having a war story set in the dark ages use American patriotic language (e.g. freedom !!!!!!) to better resonate with audiences. It's weak.

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08-25-2013, 03:59 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Was Oliver Stone's Alexander as bad as people say?
myeah... i dunno. i like stone in general and im a huuuuuge history buff so historical inaccuracies aside, i sorta liked it, but at the same time recognize that it was very flawed film

i had the misfortune of reading this amazing book twice before watching the movie

http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Mace...bs_275298011_4

so it kinda ruined everything for me.

if you have a chance of picking this book up, don't hesitate. it's a scholarly biography, with references and notes, but it's written like a novel. amazing...

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Old
08-25-2013, 04:11 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Gladiator was much more of a 'what if' than simply inaccurate stuff.

The succession from Marcus Aurelius to Commodus was hazardous and Commodus went on to re-instate a lot of games at the Colosseum. He even fought as a gladiator, probably in arranged bouts. He became erratic and was killed in a conspiracy that involved some of the guys we saw in Gladiator, such as Quintus. So Gladiator did not happen, but it could have and History would be exactly the same.

Titanic (horrible movie!) is the same. Most of the stuff is real and what they focus on is made up but it could have happened (sort of).

And I think this approach is much more honest than what we saw with the King's speech or Zero Dark Thirty, for example.

You can take some liberties if the story is already there, but when you take liberties in order to have a story to tell, i'm out.
During the making of Gladiator one of the historians quit during filming due to gross inaccuracies and the other one refused to have her name listed in the credits.

I am not familiar with the history of the subject matter from which The King's Speech was based upon and have not seen the movie either. Just wanted to point out how terrible Gladiator was in the same regard and should be held to the same standard of criticism.

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08-25-2013, 07:38 AM
  #837
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Completely agree on Argo....it was an American story where Canadians played a part but a relatively small one. It is mostly just embarrassing Canadian insecurity complexes fuelling the backlash here in Canada.

I can't stand American flag waiving propaganda as much as the next person but people are barking up the wrong tree in the case of Argo

Haven't seen Life of Pi yet but I have heard that it is amazing.....definitely on the "to do" list.
You might think so if you watched the movie. The movie was not about the politics, but the escape plan. Here is a quote:

"90% of the contributions to the ideas and the consummation of the plan was Canadian [while] the movie gives almost full credit to the American CIA...Ben Affleck's character in the film was only in Tehran a day and a half and the real hero in my opinion was Ken Taylor, who was the Canadian ambassador who orchestrated the entire process." -Jimmy Carter

So the President of the United States at the time of the crisis says Affleck is full of it.

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08-25-2013, 08:30 AM
  #838
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You might think so if you watched the movie. The movie was not about the politics, but the escape plan. Here is a quote:

"90% of the contributions to the ideas and the consummation of the plan was Canadian [while] the movie gives almost full credit to the American CIA...Ben Affleck's character in the film was only in Tehran a day and a half and the real hero in my opinion was Ken Taylor, who was the Canadian ambassador who orchestrated the entire process." -Jimmy Carter

So the President of the United States at the time of the crisis says Affleck is full of it.
On the other hand, if it's possible for an ex-President to be called "********", it would apply to Jimmy Carter and the Hostage Crisis. The event became a rug that was pulled from under him by Ronald Reagan, the succeeding President who was in office for the actual rescue, leaving poor Carter on the floor like one of those inept bad-guys in a Charlie Chaplin movie.

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Old
08-25-2013, 11:39 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
During the making of Gladiator one of the historians quit during filming due to gross inaccuracies and the other one refused to have her name listed in the credits.

I am not familiar with the history of the subject matter from which The King's Speech was based upon and have not seen the movie either. Just wanted to point out how terrible Gladiator was in the same regard and should be held to the same standard of criticism.
You're perfectly right about the innacuracies. The thing for me is that the protagonist (Maximus) simply never existed. So of course the story cannot be 100% accurate.

The King's speech is something else completely. George VI resolved his stuttering issues long before becoming king. So this 'critical' King's speech was never a problem for him.

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08-25-2013, 11:43 AM
  #840
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You're perfectly right about the innacuracies. The thing for me is that the protagonist (Maximus) simply never existed. So of course the story cannot be 100% accurate.

The King's speech is something else completely. George VI resolved his stuttering issues long before becoming king. So this 'critical' King's speech was never a problem for him.
Solid point......I see what you are saying

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Old
08-25-2013, 12:10 PM
  #841
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I think you're being too literal. First of all, the hostage crisis wasn't exclusive Canadian history. The film was about the American hostages, the American-conceived idea of 'Argo', the Americans who implemented the rescue. Canadians have had 30 years to make their own version of the story; this was told from the US side. Yeah, some details were tweaked/exaggerated, but so what? Argo is no more or less accurate a depiction of history than any other historical film. Most important, judged purely as a piece of entertainment I thought it worked really well.

That said, my favourite film of the year was Life of Pi. Gorgeous, surprisingly strong screenplay and great story. Loved it.
I haven't seen the film and don't plan on it. Didn't like the way they re-wrote history on this one. As a piece of entertainment it might be good, but I don't like it when films do this.

Then again, you shouldn't go to the movie theatre expecting realistic depictions of history. 42 is actually a pretty good example of this. No evidence to support that the opposing pitcher was a racist but that's how he's painted. He becomes a composite for the racism that Robinson had to face. That's all well and good for a movie but they lay Ostermueller's reputation to waste... not cool.

He wasn't hit in the head the way the movie depicted, the homer didn't win the game... it's all just packaged fluff...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Completely agree on Argo....it was an American story where Canadians played a part but a relatively small one. It is mostly just embarrassing Canadian insecurity complexes fuelling the backlash here in Canada.

I can't stand American flag waiving propaganda as much as the next person but people are barking up the wrong tree in the case of Argo

Haven't seen Life of Pi yet but I have heard that it is amazing.....definitely on the "to do" list.
Most of the time I usually agree on the whole Canadian insecurity thing. As a whole we are way too insecure and way too focused on what everyone thinks of us. And it is embarrassing.

That being said, I completely disagree on this one. Argo attributes the credit to the US and it wasn't the case. Carter said so, the hostages said so, Ken Taylor says so and that's exactly how it has been remembered for years. U571 is another stark example of history being re-written so that the film does better at the box office. Mel Gibson has made a career out of demonizing the British...

If Argo comes on TV someday I might watch it. But I have no real desire to catch this movie right now because it kind of put a bad taste in my mouth. Normally this stuff doesn't really bother me but for some reason this one really irked me.


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08-26-2013, 09:20 AM
  #842
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Sorry.

Did I put a damper on this thread? Please carry on...


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08-26-2013, 03:18 PM
  #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Was Oliver Stone's Alexander as bad as people say?
Director's cut wasnt too bad (most director's cuts usualy are better anyway)

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08-26-2013, 03:18 PM
  #844
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Movie buffs, Is there a JFK related movie coming out this fall? I remember reading about an anniversary related release more than a couple years ago but I don't see any promos for it.

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08-26-2013, 03:19 PM
  #845
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Movie buffs, Is there a JFK related movie coming out this fall? I remember reading about an anniversary related release more than a couple years ago but I don't see any promos for it.
its called Parkland, was reading on it just the other day

"A recounting of the chaotic events that occurred at Dallas' Parkland Hospital on the day U.S. President John F. Kennedy was assassinated."

hope its good, stone's JFK's an all timer for me


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08-26-2013, 03:24 PM
  #846
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Haven't seen Life of Pi yet but I have heard that it is amazing.....definitely on the "to do" list.
Watch it, it was so much better then i thought it was going to be, and for MOST people, the "ending" goes completely over their heads, some people who have watched the movie still have no idea about the "true" ending

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08-26-2013, 03:32 PM
  #847
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Based on recommendations here on the weekend I watched the 2 star trek movies and the first 3 episodes of Homeland. Threw in directors cut version of JFK just because.

The screenplays for the Trekkie films are surprisingly funny, and Homeland is off to a good start.

But I get a feeling Homeland might turn me off the way Zero Dark Thirty did. Strong aggressive annoying female character running around being hailed as an outside-the-box superstar while they write the other characters as slow moving clods that can barely tie their shoes in the morning.

We'll see.

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08-26-2013, 03:40 PM
  #848
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its called Parkland, was reading on it just the other day

"A recounting of the chaotic events that occurred at Dallas' Parkland Hospital on the day U.S. President John F. Kennedy was assassinated."

hope its good, stone's JFK's an all timer for me
Thanks. I think Oliver Stone put so much out there in such a great film that any other film on the subject will be a letdown.

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08-26-2013, 03:41 PM
  #849
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Thanks. I think Oliver Stone put so much out there in such a great film that any other film on the subject will be a letdown.
only thing that would top it imo would be a movie about it from the assassins point of view, behind the scenes n such

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08-26-2013, 03:42 PM
  #850
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Watch it, it was so much better then i thought it was going to be, and for MOST people, the "ending" goes completely over their heads, some people who have watched the movie still have no idea about the "true" ending
Truly great film. And less fantasy in it than Argo.

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