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Old
09-27-2003, 05:30 PM
  #26
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Damn.. minnie just has our number in OT recently hey? I still say Conklin is great for the first save, but those rebounds are a huge worry...

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09-27-2003, 05:49 PM
  #27
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3 Stars:

Torres
Daigle
Conklin

I guess Daigle has given up on that movie career; it wasn't that long ago that he wouldn't have deigned to sully his hands with an unglamourous team like the Wild...guess he's realizing people remember the #2 pick in his draft a lot more than the #1. Karma's a *****.

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Old
09-27-2003, 06:09 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrew
Torres great hands
He did have great hands on that goal, it was a keeper. Most players don't score that goal!

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09-27-2003, 06:10 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Probably just won himself a ticket to the next game.
I don't think he gets cut. MacTavish mentioned he is a guy that can bury chances.

I think he gets another game.

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09-27-2003, 06:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by theoil
Lowetide, are you thinking that Sarno might be short-term until we get the 'other situation' straightened out or do you think Sarno has finally turned the corner. I notice you have been a big fan thoughout TC and was just curious why.
Well, if I was king of the world the centers out of camp would be York, Horcoff, Reasoner and Stoll. That's three guys over six feet.

However, Sarno has all kinds of little things that would make him valuable so maybe he's the guy. He's a little more seasoned, can (apparently) help the power play, and maybe it gives Stoll a chance to spend another 40 games in the AHL.


I'll be somewhat surprised if they send Stoll out though, because he's a pretty well developed defensive hockey player even now.

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Old
09-27-2003, 06:20 PM
  #31
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Just got back from the game

For the most part a sloppy game by the Oilers. A lot of missed passes, many odd man rushes for the Wild.

Players that stood out.

Conklin was excellent, should have been first star. Minnesota had a lot of good chances and Conklin never had a chance on any of the goals they scored.

Bergeron IMO took a step backwards tonight. He did not play well offensively and defensively he was a nightmare. He took a lot of low percentage chances and got caught numerous times. Luoma made a couple of mistakes but tonight he wins the battle between these two.

Sarno impressed me tonight. Made a few nice plays, and played well defensively. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the season here, especially if Comrie is not still here. IMO the battle between Sarno and Stoll is neck and neck, but the Oilers may want Stoll to get the ice time in Toronto.

Torres creates chances and scored a goal scorers goal tonight. He needs to play with people that can bury the biscuit!

A boring game, those that weren't there didn't miss much.

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Old
09-27-2003, 06:20 PM
  #32
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Okay, just home from the game, a little analysis:


Torres: No way he's the first star of this hockey game, that was a sad pick. In a BORING game, he had all of one nice hit and a pretty simple goal. Needs to get to work, we know he's staying here though because of that contract.

Rita: Not a very good game, had plenty of chances to step and beat guys or win races but couldn't/wouldn't. Not looking ready to play this year, which is a sad thing.

Salmelainen: Takes a beating and keeps going, very nice hockey sense on his goal, always in the openings. He'll play some games in Edmonton this season, just not sure how many. I hope he gets a shot to beat out Rita, because he's definately playing better than him right now.

Stoll: You see that he's going to be a full-timer by the end of the year, but I think he might end up goin down. Fairly good game tonight, just not quite what he needs to bring.

Sarno: Played well, I'd keep him to start the year and give the guy a shot, he makes his linemates look better than they're playing, which is always a good sign. Definately playing decent defence.

Other Forwards: meh, nothing special, this game was BORING BORING BORING, York looked out of it, Chimera played alright, Horcoff should've done better than he did, Wright isn't quite the player he was earlier, no memorable performances.

Mikko Luoma: Stunk the joint out, coughed up the puck multiple times, got burned numerous times, kept losing the puck in the offensive zone, it was UGLY. Mikko, you're not ready, you're skating slowly, and you're not hitting, go to Toronto, learn the N.A. game, then come back and we'll see how things go.

Bergeron: Not a great game, not a bad game, he got stuck cleaning up for Luoma ALOT tonight, which was fairly surprising. Not sure why you pair those two together. He's on my opening day line-up in the #6 spot No "step-backwards" though, as spaz indicated.

Ferguson: zzzzzzzzzz

Smith: zzzz, slightly more feisty than lately

Cross: Cory, speed up a little bit. Get into the game.

Semenov: Solid game from the big man, outperformed partner Smith.


And as for Conk, he played pretty well, made a really nice stick save in the 1st with the end of his stick intentionally, and I think he's gonna do just fine as our backup.


Anyone hear the ROLOSON! guys? Man was that some funny stuff, I was sittin down there near them, the 3rd period was a total riot with those guys down there, it was great.

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Old
09-27-2003, 06:32 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Okay, just home from the game, a little analysis:


Torres: No way he's the first star of this hockey game, that was a sad pick. In a BORING game, he had all of one nice hit and a pretty simple goal. Needs to get to work, we know he's staying here though because of that contract.

Rita: Not a very good game, had plenty of chances to step and beat guys or win races but couldn't/wouldn't. Not looking ready to play this year, which is a sad thing.

Salmelainen: Takes a beating and keeps going, very nice hockey sense on his goal, always in the openings. He'll play some games in Edmonton this season, just not sure how many. I hope he gets a shot to beat out Rita, because he's definately playing better than him right now.

Stoll: You see that he's going to be a full-timer by the end of the year, but I think he might end up goin down. Fairly good game tonight, just not quite what he needs to bring.

Sarno: Played well, I'd keep him to start the year and give the guy a shot, he makes his linemates look better than they're playing, which is always a good sign. Definately playing decent defence.

Other Forwards: meh, nothing special, this game was BORING BORING BORING, York looked out of it, Chimera played alright, Horcoff should've done better than he did, Wright isn't quite the player he was earlier, no memorable performances.

Mikko Luoma: Stunk the joint out, coughed up the puck multiple times, got burned numerous times, kept losing the puck in the offensive zone, it was UGLY. Mikko, you're not ready, you're skating slowly, and you're not hitting, go to Toronto, learn the N.A. game, then come back and we'll see how things go.

Bergeron: Not a great game, not a bad game, he got stuck cleaning up for Luoma ALOT tonight, which was fairly surprising. Not sure why you pair those two together. He's on my opening day line-up in the #6 spot No "step-backwards" though, as spaz indicated.

Ferguson: zzzzzzzzzz

Smith: zzzz, slightly more feisty than lately

Cross: Cory, speed up a little bit. Get into the game.

Semenov: Solid game from the big man, outperformed partner Smith.


And as for Conk, he played pretty well, made a really nice stick save in the 1st with the end of his stick intentionally, and I think he's gonna do just fine as our backup.


Anyone hear the ROLOSON! guys? Man was that some funny stuff, I was sittin down there near them, the 3rd period was a total riot with those guys down there, it was great.
I agree with some of your analysis and completely disagree on other points. It was Bergeron that pinched about 6 times and lost (and yes I counted, it was a boring game) It was Luoma that was kept holding the bag.

I already commented on that I saw more from Torres than you did in the last thread and obviously the person that picked the stars saw that as well. He Stoll the puck a lot to continue the cycle, scored a goal (and results do count).

Completely agree on Rita, he also floated at times tonight. One play in particular that really bothered me. He loses the puck in his own zone, everybody is hustling back to get back in the play because it is an odd-man rush. They get two shots on goal and he is just crossing the blueline. Terrible!!

I think York played very well for a guy that is playing his first game since the injury.

Agree on the rest.

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Old
09-27-2003, 06:57 PM
  #34
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With Torres it might be what we expect from differing points of view. I expect, since he does not have the offensive skill to get points regularly, that Raffi Torres should be out there skating like a maniac, laying people out every shift or two, in order to be worthy of a roster spot, and he isn't. He doesn't have the hands to expect him to put up points in a meaningful way, but he has to make something happen somewhere. If a guy is going to occupy a roster spot, and not make a difference in some way regulary, I'd at least give that spot to someone who can shoot well when they have a half-decent chance.


With Luoma vs. Bergeron, I think it was watching different areas. I expect Bergeron to pinch and get beat sometimes, BUT, a forward on the ice is supposed to have him covered, and offensive d-men are told to be aggressive because of this. He didn't have a stellar game, so it wasn't surprising to me that he'd be bashed on here, but in his own end, he was solid.

Luoma backs off in a hurry, so you know he's going to be back there, but something you really have to watch for are A) getting burned wide, and B) giving up odd-man situations right in front of your net. Luoma was guilty of both on multiple occaisions tonight. He looked HORRID on Minnesota's 2nd goal, and I had a great view, maybe 20 feet away. There is ZERO excuse for getting cleanly burned wide when you're supposed to be a defensively strong defenceman in the NHL. Bergeron was in the right spot that time, and made it so all Ty had to do was put his stick down and stop the pass, unfortunately, this didn't happen and it was in the net.

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Old
09-27-2003, 07:04 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
With Torres it might be what we expect from differing points of view. I expect, since he does not have the offensive skill to get points regularly, that Raffi Torres should be out there skating like a maniac, laying people out every shift or two, in order to be worthy of a roster spot, and he isn't. He doesn't have the hands to expect him to put up points in a meaningful way, but he has to make something happen somewhere. If a guy is going to occupy a roster spot, and not make a difference in some way regulary, I'd at least give that spot to someone who can shoot well when they have a half-decent chance.


With Luoma vs. Bergeron, I think it was watching different areas. I expect Bergeron to pinch and get beat sometimes, BUT, a forward on the ice is supposed to have him covered, and offensive d-men are told to be aggressive because of this. He didn't have a stellar game, so it wasn't surprising to me that he'd be bashed on here, but in his own end, he was solid.

Luoma backs off in a hurry, so you know he's going to be back there, but something you really have to watch for are A) getting burned wide, and B) giving up odd-man situations right in front of your net. Luoma was guilty of both on multiple occaisions tonight. He looked HORRID on Minnesota's 2nd goal, and I had a great view, maybe 20 feet away. There is ZERO excuse for getting cleanly burned wide when you're supposed to be a defensively strong defenceman in the NHL. Bergeron was in the right spot that time, and made it so all Ty had to do was put his stick down and stop the pass, unfortunately, this didn't happen and it was in the net.
What I saw from Bergeron is pinching on low percentage plays. What I mean by that is even if he wins that battle nothing is really going to happen anyway. Any coach will tell you that this has them pulling hairs. And it wasn't just a couple of times it was about six and I believe two of them resulted in goals against! And on that second goal, it was Bergeron's bad pinch that caused Luoma to be in trouble in the first place! You have to look at the whole play, not just the play in the own zone!

As for being beat wide, Bergeron was also beat wide on a few occasions and then didn't get himself back in the proper position to compensate.

IMO it isn't a great pairing. Bergeron needs a steady, experienced dman to play with because he is a high-risk, high reward dman.

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Old
09-27-2003, 07:08 PM
  #36
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It was a bad pairing, but I thought it was Bergeron who benefited negatively from it, and you thought it was Luoma.

On the 2nd goal, Bergeron was in the right position, and made the right play. 1st goal, I don't believe they were on the ice, not the OT goal either. Cross was on for both of those though wasn't he? Nice pass by Daigle on the first, should been cut off though.

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Old
09-27-2003, 07:14 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Well, if I was king of the world the centers out of camp would be York, Horcoff, Reasoner and Stoll. That's three guys over six feet.

However, Sarno has all kinds of little things that would make him valuable so maybe he's the guy. He's a little more seasoned, can (apparently) help the power play, and maybe it gives Stoll a chance to spend another 40 games in the AHL.


I'll be somewhat surprised if they send Stoll out though, because he's a pretty well developed defensive hockey player even now.
Thanks, I was just wondering. If MC is in camp I figure Sarno doesn't get a sniff but the way things are going there has to be a scramble on. I haven't seen Stoll since the first days of training camp and am wondering like everybody else if he is ready or if we are going to force feed or if there is another option (Sarno).

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09-27-2003, 07:15 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I'll be somewhat surprised if they send Stoll out though, because he's a pretty well developed defensive hockey player even now.
This surprises me a bit. Of course it's hard for me to comment because I've only seen limited action of the kid.

If so, good on the youngster. It takes a while for many to be well developed defensively. And with the limited NHL experience he has, it's pretty impressive.

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Old
09-27-2003, 07:19 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
It was a bad pairing, but I thought it was Bergeron who benefited negatively from it, and you thought it was Luoma.

On the 2nd goal, Bergeron was in the right position, and made the right play. 1st goal, I don't believe they were on the ice, not the OT goal either. Cross was on for both of those though wasn't he? Nice pass by Daigle on the first, should been cut off though.
Bergeron pinched a lot and lost a lot tonight the only person that saved Bergeron was Conklin!

Luoma had a bad night too (but lets be honest he had to cover for Bergeron's pinches), but of the two dman, I give Luoma the edge tonight. But on the whole I would still go with Bergeron because he has more offensive upside, but he has to learn the difference between a high percentage pinch and a low percentage pinch. They both have to learn when to leave the offensive zone. They both got caught leaving late. Minnesota just tapped the puck of the boards to the open man at centre and the Oilers were caught.

Defensive skills can be taught, Luoma is never going to bring the offensive gifts that Bergeron has.

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09-27-2003, 07:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil
Thanks, I was just wondering. If MC is in camp I figure Sarno doesn't get a sniff but the way things are going there has to be a scramble on. I haven't seen Stoll since the first days of training camp and am wondering like everybody else if he is ready or if we are going to force feed or if there is another option (Sarno).
It's not like we are talking about Sarno being in the lineup even if he makes the team. He would be the 23rd player on the roster or in other terms the 14th forward. I think it makes alot of sense for Sarno to fill that role. He is a veteran, he's cheap and it won't hurt the team to have him fill in if two forwards get injured. I'd much rather have stoll getting first line minutes in Toronto than to have him sitting in the pressbox in Edmonton.

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09-27-2003, 07:32 PM
  #41
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We also have to realize that Torres comes with a pretty big dollar value. So my question is how many players can we afford on the bottom two lines whom are paid around the million dollar mark and beyond. If you get that kind of money you should perform. I'm not sure what kind of change Torres gets here but on the Island he was over a million dollars. Also for the agitator role he is supposed to play he backs down alot. I've seen him back down from a fight at least four times already.

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09-27-2003, 07:40 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote
We also have to realize that Torres comes with a pretty big dollar value. So my question is how many players can we afford on the bottom two lines whom are paid around the million dollar mark and beyond. If you get that kind of money you should perform. I'm not sure what kind of change Torres gets here but on the Island he was over a million dollars. Also for the agitator role he is supposed to play he backs down alot. I've seen him back down from a fight at least four times already.

$800 k I believe.

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09-27-2003, 07:44 PM
  #43
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Ya i think Torres gets paid around 800K but im not sure because he took a pay cut to get the one way contract. but if Torres can pot 10-15 this season and cause some $hit on the ice i'll be happy.and i do beleive Torres someday can pot 20-25 season but i guess we will have to see.

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09-27-2003, 07:54 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrew
Ya i think Torres gets paid around 800K but im not sure because he took a pay cut to get the one way contract. but if Torres can pot 10-15 this season and cause some $hit on the ice i'll be happy.and i do beleive Torres someday can pot 20-25 season but i guess we will have to see.
That's what nhlpa.com has him listed as. If I understand correctly (and it is hit and miss) he was over 1mil on a two way and took the lower number to get the 1 way. It is still high for a 4th liner in his first year but I gave up pretending to understand the market a long time ago. I know he has to play better than Pisani and Chimera and about the same as Horcoff to keep the team payroll in balance. Big shoes to match in his first year.

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09-27-2003, 07:57 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
This surprises me a bit. Of course it's hard for me to comment because I've only seen limited action of the kid.

If so, good on the youngster. It takes a while for many to be well developed defensively. And with the limited NHL experience he has, it's pretty impressive.

Well, I don't want to overstate my knowledge of him, I've seen Stoll maybe 10 times all told, twice as an Oiler last season (one good game, one not so good). I've read that he is a good faceoff man, and a solid two way center who is alot faster than he was in his (original) draft year of 2000. What I've seen backs up that assessment.

That would be a better way of putting it.

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09-27-2003, 08:05 PM
  #46
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I thought Torres was over a million but you may be right that he took a cut for two years plus I remember hearing he really wanted a one way deal which he got. Considering they kept sending him down on the Island that was probably the most important part of the deal to him.

I was at the game and it was pretty boring. I thought Torres would have livened up the game with some physical play considering he kept saying he needed to play against other teams to really show what he can do.

If he had a two way contract I'm sure he would have been much more abrasive. I don't see him as much of a scorer so for his salary I hope he puts more into his physical and emotional game than he did tonight.

Conklin was the first star in my mind and I think the wild deserved two stars.

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09-27-2003, 08:44 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
Conklin was the first star in my mind and I think the jackets deserved two stars.
I thought we were playing the Wild?

I find it interesting how some posters are getting on Torres' case tonight on having the audacity of being named first star. It's preseason, they could name Joey Moss first star for all I care about it. To call it a 'grave injustice' is laying it on a bit thick IMO. BTW, at least he SCORED a goal, which is more than anyone w/ the exception of Salmo can say tonight.

I'll wait until the real games start before I get too excited about his lack of dominance.

One thing that's getting me excited though (in a not-good way) is the 2 goals a game clip we're running at thus far. This had better not be a harbinger of things to come.

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09-27-2003, 09:06 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
How much icetime has Sarno gotten tonight?

Just started listening in the third and haven't heard his name yet(listening part-time).
Regular shift like everyone else. It just goes to show that he's invisible out there. He had one "nice" play all night...

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09-27-2003, 09:12 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1

Semenov: Solid game from the big man, outperformed partner Smith.

Semenov was awful today. He was consistently beat one on one and he lost all the battles on the boards in his own end. For a giant, he should be able to do better.

I thought Conklin was easily the Oilers' best player tonight.

Torres and Stoll have a sweet chemistry and they complement each other very well. They'll be excellent together.

Wright should not play in the NHL.

Luoma was easily the worst player on the ice. Though, he was not the only guy to have a terrible night. Most of the d-men were definitely below average.

No forward stood out tonight other than the aforementioned two in my mind. Nobody was particularily bad, but nobody was particularily good either.

And yes, after a pretty good first period, the rest of the game was a snooze-fest...

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09-27-2003, 09:22 PM
  #50
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Hey, at least we kicked butt on the faceoff dot! (straws, grasping at them...)

From NHL.com:

Horcoff - won 12, lost 4
Torres - won 2, lost 2
York - won 5, lost 1
Moreau - won 0, lost 2
Reasoner - won 11, lost 5
Sarno - won 6, lost 10 :mad:
Stoll - won 3, lost 3

Nice to see York do well in limited work on the dot.

The main reason for Sarno's poor showing here was Darby Hendrickson, who totally SCHOOLED him...lost 7 of 9 draws against Darby.

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