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Would Montreal Welcome the Expos Back

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Old
03-29-2014, 10:07 PM
  #451
Jigger77
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I was there on Friday night. Last minute decision, buddy got some tickets. Honestly thought of it as just something to do on a Friday night.

The second I got near the place emotions starting running high. We somehow walked through slush and climbed down walls to get there. Helped some older dudes down some little walls. Everyone smiling, feeling like a kid again. Genuinely excited.

Then you get in the place, no checks other than your ticket. Just like in the old days before everyone turned paranoid. Everyone smiling, feeling great. The first thing I noticed was the sound that place makes. You can hear it from outside. I don't know if it's the fans (not the people the actual air circulation system) but there is literally a buzz in the air there. Then second comes that smell of hot dogs or whatever it is. All of a sudden this evening goes from just something to do to total nostalgia. I remember being 12-13-15 years old and being in that same exact state of awe at the place with my dad leading the way. Really unique feeling.

I get to my seat and immediately it hits me. I was at the last game and it felt like it was a week ago. Everything was familiar, felt right, felt good, felt like home. Those old ass speakers, can't really make out what they're saying on the P.A, the old jumbotron screen, the vintage feel, the let's go expos cheers...

Took a few innings (and a couple beer) to really get into the game and all of a sudden I realized we were cheering for the Jays. I honestly couldn't give two ***** about the Jays but all of a sudden, it just felt like we were cheering on the Expos. And then of course the bottom of the 9th picture perfect finish with the crowd going nuts and us banging seat and chanting. It felt right man.

A night that went from uneventful turned into something meaningful and something that I'll remember and cherish. It reminded me of my grandpa, my dad and his old stubbies listening to games on the old AM radio back in the day on hot summer evenings. It reminded me that maybe I took that stuff for granted back then. But now I sort of understand a little better how privileged I was to experience that as a kid.

Anyway, special night for me personally, and for Montreal I think as a whole.

I hope with all my heart that someday major league baseball comes back here so that other kids can grow up with it and appreciate it.

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03-29-2014, 10:13 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by FuriousSenator View Post
Great on Montreal to get some decent attendance for these two games, but do I think MLB in Montreal is viable enough for a pro franchise? Nope.

Getting a majority attendance figure out for 2 games is one thing, for 82 is quite another.

Everyone loves to blame the Expo's attendance problems on 2 main things: the anaemic management/ownership, and the stadium. On the former fair enough, but I find it interesting that the Expos managed TWO WINNING SEASONS in 2002 and 2003 (aka better records than most Blue Jays teams in the 2000s) and never saw a positive rise in fan support as a result. The interest was killed in 1995 and never came back. All that's left is powerful nostalgia. Funny thing about nostalgia is that it only really works when you're putting down 20-30 dollars for a one off event. Ask those same fans singing and cheering all day and night this past weekend to pay big bucks for full/half season ticket packages and I'm sure you'd see a lot of quick movement of Expos hats and jerseys being slipped away into closets and bags...

As for the stadium. I will never ever EVER understand Montrealer's complaints about Olympic Stadium's location. NEVER. Maybe I'm a hardened Ottawan who routinely must make a 45 minute BUS COMMUTE out to the middle of rural farmland to catch a glimpse of our only pro team...but c'MON Montreal. Olympic Stadium has NOT 1 BUT 2 metro stations ON ITS PREMISES. I visited Montreal a few summers ago for a Montreal Impact game. Took maximum 20-25 minutes on the comfortable and fast metro from the center of downtown Montreal. If that is something you can't handle, that is a complete joke imo. You would never survive owning a season's ticket package for the Senators. The average veteran fans here usually sacrifice about 2-2.5 hours of commute time 3-4 TIMES A WEEK to see the team. Stop whining about the location. It's a beautiful spot.

The structure itself is certainly crumbling, and would benefit immensely from a retractable roof. I don't know the cost figures but I'm sure it would be a better call for any new investor to simply tear off the current roof on the Big O and replace it with something more flexible or really just completely redesign and refurbish it from the ground up with a minimal roof (a la BC Place but without retraction for example).

Anyways my point is I think this weekend was more of a flash in the pan. Also quit complaining about Olympic Stadium and be immensely grateful for the fantastic transportation links of your city....not all of us have such comforts.
Olympic stadium is really only a good venue with 30-35 K in attendance. Otherwise, it's a cavern and feels empty. It certainly wasn't built for pro sports games, whether Baseball, Football or Soccer. The stands aren't designed to be close to the action. Even for concerts, there are only certain sections that are remotely decent for acoustics.

Most teams in Baseball, even the ones that end up with between 2 Million and 3 Million in attendance, don't draw much more than 15 - 25 K during week day games. They load up on fans during the weekend as Baseball is still the only real family game (affordability-wise) left (bringing in 2-3 kid and the wife for under $100 in tickets if you want to.

With the latest TV deal and the (rather complicated) revenue sharing for it in MLB, a team with an average Payroll will inevitably turn a small profit. Strong attendance and better local TV deals will only contribute to a more robust profit.

A downtown stadium with arena seating designed for a warmer Baseball experience would undoubtedly help draw the 20-25 K attendance during the week and could make a game part of a three prong experience during the weekends; shopping, Baseball, dinner/movie/clubbing/Old Montreal walk/whatever.

Montreal, unlike most (and almost all) major urban centres in North America, has the advantage of concentrating EVERYTHING in it's downtown core. Unlike other cities where downtown becomes a ghost town after regular office hours, Montreal's downtown boasts all of business, banking, shopping, nightlife and entertainment in one BIG spot.

Sending Baseball fans to the outskirts of the city's East end (not the far outskirts but, far enough) doesn't encourage Baseball as part of a larger outing. Rather, it draws more hard core fans than casual fans that could be a huge impact on overall attendance, even if it is a revolving slate of casual fans.

A Baseball-designed stadium would also, IMO, help retain a higher portion of that hopeful 25 K in attendance during week day games as the experience would be warmer and help mark the moment in a more positive manner.

The proximity of restaurants, alone, would be more inviting for fans, rather than needing to find parking in one area of town and then pick up to find parking at the olympic stadium all over again. It's not like there's ANY quality restaurant around the stadium! The idea of leaving your car at work, going for dinner and catching a game is much more inviting than leaving your car at work, taking the subway to The Olympic stadium, overpaying for 'deux rotteux' et une 'graisseuse' (two hot dogs and a fry, for the uninitiated) and then needing to wait for four or five subway trains, cramped as a sardine, before getting the chance of returning to work to get your car back.

The time lost, alone, doing this, would prevent you from being back home before after midnight on a work day.

ALL OF THIS SAID, the price tag, evaluated at roughly a minimum of 1.25 Billion to re-acquire an MLB franchise, most likely, through the expansion route, where your team would be out of the running early on, short of WASTING loads of cash on Free Agents (not a guarantee to success in the long term) IS MIGHTY STEEP!

Are there enough potential owners with deep enough pockets to make it work (around 400 - 500 Million for the franchise, another 400 Million or so for a stadium, the money for the minor league system, the MLB staff and the team's payroll over the first few seasons)?

I believe it can work, provided the main investor is a media company that needs the 162 MLB games for it's fledgling Specialty sports Channel, like TVA's TVA Sports station. Other investors like Stephen Bronfman (an avid baseball fan who could be the designated front person of the ownership group with MLB), the Molsons who could use the return of baseball to promote their alcohol brands, Jean Coutu and other past and new participants could help round out the ownership group.

The question of monies for the new downtown stadium (and there are possible avenues still like the Dow Breweries lot which has been abandoned for years now) would likel;y need to be a partnership between private ownership, municipal government, provincial government and, potentially, federal government. The government participation could be part investment and part loan guarantee.

A special levy could be applied to EVERY seat in the stadium for EVERY event presented there, with the sole purpose of helping to repay, along with other assigned portions of revenue, to the costs of building the new stadium in as short a time frame as possible, something equating an added $2 per seat until the stadium is paid off.

It ISN't impossible to afford a new MLB, especially given MLB's financial structure that is all but guaranteed to survive over the next 25 years with the latest National TV contract. AND, do so while having a competitive, middle of the pack team that would afford enough hope to create new fans…

The new playoff format, that would've seen Montreal make the playoffs regularly had it been in place during the 80s, would help convert and retain fans for the Expos.

STILL, IT'S A LONGSHOT AND A PERFECT STORM WOULD NEED TO FORM FOR IT TO BECOME A REALITY.

ONE CAN ALWAYS DREAM….

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Old
03-29-2014, 10:23 PM
  #453
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The problem I have right now... We just had two great ball games in Montreal for the first time in nearly a decade... and now I miss the Expos more than ever. Someone... Anyone... please bring back my team.

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03-29-2014, 11:20 PM
  #454
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I was 5 months old in 94 when the strike hit and 10 years old when they left. My entire memory of baseball in Montreal came from the dark years and still I remember loving it. For all the times I went I can't tell you when I went, who they played against or even if the expos won, I just remember loving it and enjoying the time with the family.

Growing up I could never skate well and despite my height and shoulder size I wasn't mean enough for football. Baseball was my calling, some of my best memories come from playing.

Baseball runs deep in this city, give me a downtown stadium that I can hop onto the metro straight from school and hangout with friends in the bars and restaurants before and after. Give me an owner who isn't afraid to field a competitive team and I will be there 15-20 maybe even 30 times a year. And I won't be the only one.

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03-30-2014, 01:26 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
I was 5 months old in 94 when the strike hit and 10 years old when they left. My entire memory of baseball in Montreal came from the dark years and still I remember loving it. For all the times I went I can't tell you when I went, who they played against or even if the expos won, I just remember loving it and enjoying the time with the family.

Growing up I could never skate well and despite my height and shoulder size I wasn't mean enough for football. Baseball was my calling, some of my best memories come from playing.

Baseball runs deep in this city, give me a downtown stadium that I can hop onto the metro straight from school and hangout with friends in the bars and restaurants before and after. Give me an owner who isn't afraid to field a competitive team and I will be there 15-20 maybe even 30 times a year. And I won't be the only one.
Under those circumstances, I'd throw a Grand towards getting games in, however many games that gets me….

I'd probably end up throwing another 50 to 75 bucks with related activities surrounding each game I attended….

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03-30-2014, 07:05 AM
  #456
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The Jays don't even get this type of crowd for opening day any more (45K typical). You can bet they will be interested in exploring more of these games, maybe even in the regular season. If there is stamina in Montreal and they truly can support baseball it will eventually show.

As for the Jays, after the home opener their crowds are typically at about the 22K level, the chance to fill up the Big O and take in some revenue is a good thing for them.

Evenko, with a close up view of this throughout, are in a great position to assess the strength of Montreal's support for America's pastime , the CH Group being a possible ownership group should this thing look like it could take off.
You're wrong. Jays sell out every home opener. They'll get over 50 k next week. You are right that typically the crowds bare down after that but uhmm..the Jays haven't been that great of a team so I'm not sure if you're taking a jab at the fan base or pumping up your city and your people...Anyway congrats on having some big crowds.

Another point, last season I believe the Jays finished in the top 10-13 in average attendance. With the payroll rising and the hype of the big moves people showed up. We here in Toronto aren't bad fans, we just have to deal with bad teams year after year in all our sports. Is it too hard to ask to at least contend in September? Hopefully we can this year. It's been way too long since the Jays have made late summer exciting.

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03-30-2014, 07:53 AM
  #457
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You're wrong. Jays sell out every home opener. They'll get over 50 k next week. You are right that typically the crowds bare down after that but uhmm..the Jays haven't been that great of a team so I'm not sure if you're taking a jab at the fan base or pumping up your city and your people...Anyway congrats on having some big crowds.

Another point, last season I believe the Jays finished in the top 10-13 in average attendance. With the payroll rising and the hype of the big moves people showed up. We here in Toronto aren't bad fans, we just have to deal with bad teams year after year in all our sports. Is it too hard to ask to at least contend in September? Hopefully we can this year. It's been way too long since the Jays have made late summer exciting.
The Jays paid attendance, and the actual number of people there at the game, are quite often alot different...the Jays don't draw many fans anymore, but their numbers seem inflated...so, the Expos if they ever return, would struggle through the week also, but TV revenue seems to bail most teams out...

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Old
03-30-2014, 08:27 AM
  #458
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Under those circumstances, I'd throw a Grand towards getting games in, however many games that gets me….

I'd probably end up throwing another 50 to 75 bucks with related activities surrounding each game I attended….
Yeah I'm gonna get a new jersey, a couple hats. Most likely a half season ticket package with my dad it would make for memorable summer nights for those of us who don't care about soccer. (Which despite what people are saying here is a large majority of people).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
You're wrong. Jays sell out every home opener. They'll get over 50 k next week. You are right that typically the crowds bare down after that but uhmm..the Jays haven't been that great of a team so I'm not sure if you're taking a jab at the fan base or pumping up your city and your people...Anyway congrats on having some big crowds.

Another point, last season I believe the Jays finished in the top 10-13 in average attendance. With the payroll rising and the hype of the big moves people showed up. We here in Toronto aren't bad fans, we just have to deal with bad teams year after year in all our sports. Is it too hard to ask to at least contend in September? Hopefully we can this year. It's been way too long since the Jays have made late summer exciting.
The jays are actually the only TO team I don't hate (hopefully that changes soon with an Expos VS Jays AL east rivalry. But until the wonderful day when we get a team back I wish the Jays all the luck in the world.

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03-30-2014, 08:46 AM
  #459
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How much would cost a nice downtown stadium (retractable roof) ?

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03-30-2014, 09:08 AM
  #460
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One of the best weekend Ive had in long time. I love baseball in Montreal. Please bring it back!

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03-30-2014, 09:19 AM
  #461
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How much would cost a nice downtown stadium (retractable roof) ?
Not sure, but it was written that you need an owner, with around 1 Billion dollars to make it ALL work...

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03-30-2014, 09:36 AM
  #462
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How much would cost a nice downtown stadium (retractable roof) ?
Depends on where it is and how nice we want it but open air would be soooo much nicer. I'd say in the $500M-$750M range will get us a nice downtown stadium.

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03-30-2014, 09:57 AM
  #463
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You're wrong. Jays sell out every home opener. They'll get over 50 k next week. You are right that typically the crowds bare down after that but uhmm..the Jays haven't been that great of a team so I'm not sure if you're taking a jab at the fan base or pumping up your city and your people...Anyway congrats on having some big crowds.

Another point, last season I believe the Jays finished in the top 10-13 in average attendance. With the payroll rising and the hype of the big moves people showed up. We here in Toronto aren't bad fans, we just have to deal with bad teams year after year in all our sports. Is it too hard to ask to at least contend in September? Hopefully we can this year. It's been way too long since the Jays have made late summer exciting.
Actually you are wrong. The Jays haven't hit 50,000 in a home opener since 2008. The team record is 50,560 a decade ago. The typical opening day crowd is 46000-48000 with a drop off to 22k-26k on day 2.

The Jays have a core fan base but it's not a baseball city. Knowledge of the game is generally very low, media attention to the game is very low, the Leafs have taken over sports in Toronto just like Habs did in Montreal. The typical excuses, the strike, the bad stadium, the product, are all excuses. Toronto just doesn't like baseball that much.

As for the home opener , the only reason that sells out is the once a year party atmosphere. The busloads of university students coming in from western Ontario fill up the 500 level and empty the stadium beer kegs. It's a party on opening night, not a commitment from fans to their team.

I've coached minor league rep baseball in this community, I buy flexpacks and attend the Jays home openers, I have a good idea if what the interest in baseball is. I can tell you it's hockey hockey hockey 12 months of the year here. Baseball, not so much.

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03-30-2014, 09:59 AM
  #464
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The feasibility study had the projected costs for a downtown 35,000 seat outdoor stadium (no roof) at $500mil, with government chipping in ~$335mil.



http://montrealbaseballproject.com/w...lity_Study.pdf

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03-30-2014, 10:31 AM
  #465
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If the Expos come back I would start following baseball more closely than I do now. Every summer I go to a couple Blue Jays games but that's more because it's something to do in Toronto.

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03-30-2014, 10:53 AM
  #466
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I'm trying to convince my dad to put in a billion dollars.. most he's willing is 800 million... ****ing tight ass

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03-30-2014, 10:56 AM
  #467
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something like this downtown would be perfect:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=new+ma...w=1280&bih=599

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03-30-2014, 12:05 PM
  #468
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If there was a stadium downtown, where would it go? I remember rumours of putting it in the Turcotte Yards or in the location that's now the EV and JMSB buildings at concordia, but I can't really think of a space big enough to put a stadium.

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03-30-2014, 02:24 PM
  #469
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If there was a stadium downtown, where would it go? I remember rumours of putting it in the Turcotte Yards or in the location that's now the EV and JMSB buildings at concordia, but I can't really think of a space big enough to put a stadium.
Peel basin and Wellington basin are presently the most likely locations.

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03-30-2014, 02:29 PM
  #470
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You know, if there was money for a stadium, if I was the mayor I would conduct a study to learn what the cost and feasability of a multi-fonctional stadium would be. That way you can let the door open for a futur NFL venture too. I didn't even know those existed until a few weeks ago, look it up, it's pretty interesting. There are even stadiums that can do the three fonctions and transform into a Football stadium, Soccer stadium and Baseball stadium at will.

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03-30-2014, 03:20 PM
  #471
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something like this downtown would be perfect:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=new+ma...w=1280&bih=599
Would be nice, but
Wikipedia quote:The stadium's public-funding plan—which would eventually strap a $2.4 billion debt to Miami-Dade County alone—led to a protracted lawsuit, largely contributed to the ouster of several local politicians, and triggered an SEC investigation. As revelations of the team's finances and their handling of payroll (both before and after construction) seemed to contradict some of the premises on which the tax-funded-stadium deal were based, the ballpark controversy intensified.

With all the current issue regarding the high level of corruption within Quebec's construction firms, what is the likelihood this will end-up in another Olympic stadium debacle?

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03-30-2014, 04:27 PM
  #472
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I am and have been a Red Sox fan, but I want Montreal to get a baseball team. It would be nice if they weren't in the same division as the Red Sox so I can kind of root for them too, but I doubt that would be possible. I just don't think I'll be able to hate them as much.

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03-30-2014, 05:03 PM
  #473
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I was at the game on Friday night. If this ain't a beautiful thing, I don't know what is.



Holy ****ing nostalgia, Batman. I'd welcome a team back with open arms.

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03-30-2014, 05:08 PM
  #474
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Would be nice, but
Wikipedia quote:The stadium's public-funding plan—which would eventually strap a $2.4 billion debt to Miami-Dade County alone—led to a protracted lawsuit, largely contributed to the ouster of several local politicians, and triggered an SEC investigation. As revelations of the team's finances and their handling of payroll (both before and after construction) seemed to contradict some of the premises on which the tax-funded-stadium deal were based, the ballpark controversy intensified.

With all the current issue regarding the high level of corruption within Quebec's construction firms, what is the likelihood this will end-up in another Olympic stadium debacle?
Times have changed it's not the 60s or 70s anymore. There's some level of corruption but it's not what it was before. They're building an arena in Quebec city for instance and so far there hasn't been any problems.

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03-31-2014, 07:59 AM
  #475
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