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Old
10-08-2013, 09:17 PM
  #1
BigDaddyLurch
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Habs fan asking about Erat...

Habs fan coming in peace...curious as to what the Caps would look for in a trade for Martin Erat, since Oates doesn't use him...would a point producing energy centre (Desharnais) and a solid RW prospect in need of a change (Leblanc) at least get the conversation started?...just curious; remember, I come in peace...

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10-08-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Habs fan coming in peace...curious as to what the Caps would look for in a trade for Martin Erat, since Oates doesn't use him...would a point producing energy centre (Desharnais) and a solid RW prospect in need of a change (Leblanc) at least get the conversation started?...just curious; remember, I come in peace...
Well, first, there are wings I'd rather see traded than Erat. I don't think his ice time is an indicator of what the coaching staff thinks of him so far, to be honest. He seems more like he's being put into a sort of shepherd role for Wilson, someone who he can rely on, but nothing has disappointed me about his play other than the fact that he's not getting enough time or opportunity to produce yet.

As for the offered players, the Caps just traded one (point scoring energy center) to make room for the other (solid RW prospect), so look towards the blueline if you're interested in snagging someone. Apparently the roster thread is going bananas about Gorges for Brouwer, or something.


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10-08-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Habs fan coming in peace...curious as to what the Caps would look for in a trade for Martin Erat, since Oates doesn't use him...would a point producing energy centre (Desharnais) and a solid RW prospect in need of a change (Leblanc) at least get the conversation started?...just curious; remember, I come in peace...
Josh Gorges? We need LD and maybe a LW.

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10-08-2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
Josh Gorges? We need LD and maybe a LW.
Gorges might be a bit much for the Habs to part with...any interest in Murray or Bouillon (I realize that the Habs would have to add to them), both LD??...and Desharnais can play LW.

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10-08-2013, 09:32 PM
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Well, first, there are wings I'd rather see traded than Erat. I don't think his ice time is an indicator of what the coaching staff thinks of him so far, to be honest. He seems more like he's being put into a sort of shepherd role for Wilson, someone who he can rely on, but nothing has disappointed me about his play other than the fact that he's not getting enough time or opportunity to produce yet.
This is an interesting statement. I'm curious what, beside the fact that he's playing on that line, suggests to you that it's a deliberate mentor situation? Serious question.

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10-08-2013, 09:42 PM
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This is an interesting statement. I'm curious what, beside the fact that he's playing on that line, suggests to you that it's a deliberate mentor situation? Serious question.
Yeah, it seems like just wishful thinking. That doesn't mean it's not true that Erat would do better in a more appropriate role though.

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10-08-2013, 09:53 PM
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Give it time. While he's certainly not being utilized heavily enough right now, it's only been three games. If he's still there in another 10, then we can start talking trading him.

That said, if the Caps are going to move one of Erat, Laich, or Brouwer, the target would be a 2LD. Specifically Gorges, or maybe Emelin once he returns from injury.

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10-08-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
This is an interesting statement. I'm curious what, beside the fact that he's playing on that line, suggests to you that it's a deliberate mentor situation? Serious question.
I just think if I'm Oates and I can't in good conscience award Tom Wilson a 2nd or 3rd line role, the next best thing to do is to give him at least one option on his line that should, in theory, give him some solid support. Of the possible left wing options, Erat is the most experienced, plays a hard, complete game, has the hands and size to help win board battles and act as a distributor in the grinding game and the skating to gain the zone with possession and create off the rush. Every other LW on the roster is better suited to support an offensive play than act as its catalyst, so to take full advantage of his 9 freebie games, I give him the best possible offensive option short of throwing him in the top 6, and I get to do so without disturbing my other big experiment (Fehr at Center, who at least gets the safety blanket of two linemates that work phenomenally together).

Since those two evaluations shouldn't be allowed to interfere with one another, Wilson can't play the 3rd line, but shouldn't be put in a situation in which his best feasible linemate turns out to be Chimera (presumes Erat to top 6, and subsequent displacement of Laich and the 3rd line), and possibly plays with Volpatti and Beagle. I don't really like playing him on the 2nd RW either, because I'm of the opinion that Brouwer is a rhythm player who really needs reps to get going, and establishing early 2nd line chemistry between he and Grabovski, especially if there's a mandate to make him a bonafide trigger man, is important to improving my team's poor 5 on 5 play.

To me, with a roster that has this many positions in flux, this combination of the 9 game deadline to make rookie decisions and the idea that if I have to experiment I'd rather do it early than late lead me to believe that by November, I don't think you see Erat in the bottom 6, the only caveat being that if Wilson gets pulled up from the 4th line, Erat could follow (probably prefaced by Fehr vacating 3C, and Erat either getting his shot at center, or flanking Laich with Wilson on the other side). That gets a little dicey, unless you want Fehr playing 1LW (which I like, since I've enjoyed Fehr on Ovechkin's line, but puts him on his off-hand), since I think things work out like:

Fehr-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Johansson-Grabovski-Brouwer
Erat-Laich-Wilson
Chimera-Beagle-Ward

I don't think that's the most effective use of manpower, it's just the only way I see Erat maintaining any permanence in the bottom 6. Besides that, I think you get him on 1/2LW and he becomes almost everything that made Kozlov a good fit at 1RW, or becomes the tandem option for Grabovski that Laich once looked like and Brouwer may never be, but regrettably puts Fehr in a bad position to succeed, and Wilson doesn't stick.

Erat/Johansson-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Johansson/Erat-Grabovski-Brouwer
Chimera-Laich-Ward
Volpatti-Beagle-Fehr

Maybe it is just optimism blanketed by rationalization, but I've seen Erat too often in Nashville to think that this is the best you're going to get out of him, and I have too much faith in Oates' ability to see talent when it's staring him in the face to believe that he doesn't see anything in Erat other than a 4th line option. It's the only scenario that makes sense to me.

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10-08-2013, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
I just think if I'm Oates and I can't in good conscience award Tom Wilson a 2nd or 3rd line role, the next best thing to do is to give him at least one option on his line that should, in theory, give him some solid support. Of the possible left wing options, Erat is the most experienced, plays a hard, complete game, has the hands and size to help win board battles and act as a distributor in the grinding game and the skating to gain the zone with possession and create off the rush. Every other LW on the roster is better suited to support an offensive play than act as its catalyst, so to take full advantage of his 9 freebie games, I give him the best possible offensive option short of throwing him in the top 6, and I get to do so without disturbing my other big experiment (Fehr at Center, who at least gets the safety blanket of two linemates that work phenomenally together).
I think if this were the case the line would be getting more ice time and especially Erat would have been given some indication of what was happening. He told the media he had no idea what was going on. Sooner or later he will get an opportunity in a different role, though, and I hope he seizes it.

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10-08-2013, 11:28 PM
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I think if this were the case the line would be getting more ice time and especially Erat would have been given some indication of what was happening. He told the media he had no idea what was going on. Sooner or later he will get an opportunity in a different role, though, and I hope he seizes it.
Well, don't get me wrong, I see a few flaws in the logic I presented as well (more TOI expected, Erat could be getting some late game shifts on PP1 or 2), it just jives with what I think I would do given the pieces I have. I just can't see any reality that exists where Coach Notebooks' reason for Erat clocking in at <10:00 a game has to do with his talent level or lack of place on the roster.

Hell, maybe I'm the biggest ostrich on the boards, but I can't wrap my head around that at all, so I'm not going to see it. Oates is going out of his way to try and get each and every player to improve in any variety of ways, but with Erat he's content to stuff him in the offensive basement and ignore the issue? Doesn't want to try him in any different role, but trusts him on the PK? No way. (Not saying you're implying that, but some have, and especially some talking heads). The guy probably has two or three ideas on the backburner that optimize his skillset better than this. If he starts juggling lines and terminating experiments and we're still looking at the same TOI distribution I'll eat every crow thrown my way, but I just can't fathom it.

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10-08-2013, 11:40 PM
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Well, don't get me wrong, I see a few flaws in the logic I presented as well (more TOI expected, Erat could be getting some late game shifts on PP1 or 2), it just jives with what I think I would do given the pieces I have. I just can't see any reality that exists where Coach Notebooks' reason for Erat clocking in at <10:00 a game has to do with his talent level or lack of place on the roster.
Well, just as you looked for an explanation for Erat's placement specifically on 4, you can look for one for, for example, insisting on Laich at 2LW. Form it out of some combination of: They talked up Laich as Richards/Backes/the 2C and want him to have a big role, Laich is seen as a "core" player whom they're intent on being an offensive contributor but he doesn't have a PP role anymore, they're prioritizing his acclimation to the system/lineup after he missed so much time last year. In other words, just like it can be Erat on 4 because he's the best mentor for Wilson, it can be Laich on 2 pushing Erat down because he's their focus right now (and they want to keep Chimera/Ward together), without it being a "lack of place on the roster" for Erat.

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10-09-2013, 12:04 AM
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Well, just as you looked for an explanation for Erat's placement specifically on 4, you can look for one for, for example, insisting on Laich at 2LW. Form it out of some combination of: They talked up Laich as Richards/Backes/the 2C and want him to have a big role, Laich is seen as a "core" player whom they're intent on being an offensive contributor but he doesn't have a PP role anymore, they're prioritizing his acclimation to the system/lineup after he missed so much time last year. In other words, just like it can be Erat on 4 because he's the best mentor for Wilson, it can be Laich on 2 pushing Erat down because he's their focus right now (and they want to keep Chimera/Ward together), without it being a "lack of place on the roster" for Erat.
I dig it. If there's one thing I've had to remind myself of so far when it comes to keeping a level head it's that the benefit of juggling lines is diminished with the season so young, since it only delays the building of chemistry. I really believe that Fehr is the first domino, and that only at the end of that experiment do we get close to seeing what Oates actually has planned for the forward corps. Does the fan in me want to see the lines juggled in Dallas with the immediate thrill of victory on the line? Yeah, a lot, but I think I can see why going for the safe and obvious choices can be saved for later when there are so many specific things that should be figured out now. I hadn't really considered Laich as a question mark, but your point is well made.

I find it interesting that in my opinion, the biggest question marks on the roster are complimented by the biggest known quantities. Fehr, easily the sketchiest choice of the lineup, is flanked by two of the most dependable forwards on the team. Laich, looking to return to a form he once had, is both known and unknown, since his talent is offset by his recovery, and as such he winds up on a line of players with similar stories, since Brouwer and Grabovski both want to prove that they can be counted on to live up to production of years past. Wilson, inexperienced and raw, needs to get used to flow and positioning more than leading a line and creating, gets a polished, versatile, and above all consistent veteran, capable of doing his defensive duty or grinding out a forecheck, but quick and talented enough to create off the rush or make things happen for the less offensively inclined. Even Johansson needs to prove a thing or two to stay where he is, since we can recognize that there are better options available for the revival of the 1st line's even strength might, but what he has to prove most is that he can compliment that particular line, so the best way to prove it is to stick him there. The more I mull it over, the more it seems to make sense to me. There are still things that don't, but it's obviously not a perfect roster, either. That's going to happen.


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10-09-2013, 07:34 AM
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Josh Gorges? We need LD and maybe a LW.
Emelin+?

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10-10-2013, 02:21 AM
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Well hell, if you fellas aren't going to actually use him, we will take him in Phoenix.

Klesla and a conditional 1st/2nd? Condition being it's a 1st if we make the playoffs and a 2nd if we don't. Feel free to flip the pick at the deadline for another piece.

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10-10-2013, 02:42 AM
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Well hell, if you fellas aren't going to actually use him, we will take him in Phoenix.

Klesla and a conditional 1st/2nd? Condition being it's a 1st if we make the playoffs and a 2nd if we don't. Feel free to flip the pick at the deadline for another piece.
At this point may as well. Too bad Oates would probably make Klesla a healthy scratch or a 4C.

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10-10-2013, 03:59 AM
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Re: the original post, there'd be no way we'd take Desharnais in return, as much as I like him as a player, based on the fact that we just got rid of the same player, in Purrettu.

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10-15-2013, 09:05 AM
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What about something around Kulemin + D for Erat?

Reunite Kulemin with Grabovski and Leafs have a tone of LD

Kulemin is a solid two way player, strong on the boards and can score

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10-15-2013, 09:32 AM
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Done.

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10-15-2013, 11:33 AM
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Kulemin fits the Caps a ton better than Erat. I'd take that deal.

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10-17-2013, 09:56 AM
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6 mins including pk time? who's cereal did he piss in

how do you go from trading Forsberg for him to running him out of town.

Is he playing that bad? out of shape or something

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10-17-2013, 09:58 AM
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6 mins including pk time? who's cereal did he piss in

how do you go from trading Forsberg for him to running him out of town.

Is he playing that bad? out of shape or something
He is playing great just our coach is a moron.

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10-17-2013, 11:40 AM
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6 mins including pk time? who's cereal did he piss in

how do you go from trading Forsberg for him to running him out of town.

Is he playing that bad? out of shape or something
He is playing well which is rarity to say out of Caps forwards.

Terrible management right now, Wilson played 5:26 and Erat about 6 minutes yesterday despite 2nd and 3rd line both being absolutely terrible.

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10-17-2013, 01:29 PM
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He is playing well which is rarity to say out of Caps forwards.

Terrible management right now, Wilson played 5:26 and Erat about 6 minutes yesterday despite 2nd and 3rd line both being absolutely terrible.
only 6 mins and then making him kill a penalty is like slap in the face for a player like Erat. no stories or rumors about him pissing someone off or anything like that?

Such an odd situation

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10-17-2013, 02:12 PM
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"Making him" kill a penalty? Since when is being on a PK a punishment?

Plenty of players look forward to the opportunity to kill penalties. I know Semin was upset that Hunter wasn't using him on the PK.

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10-17-2013, 03:46 PM
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"Making him" kill a penalty? Since when is being on a PK a punishment?

Plenty of players look forward to the opportunity to kill penalties. I know Semin was upset that Hunter wasn't using him on the PK.
I don't think he means it that way, but the way that after PK TOI, he averages just about 5 minutes total in 5on5 and PP combined per game.

Which is pretty much slap in the face for a guy that is solid top-6 forward who has put up lots of points in his career. Especially when the team is struggling so badly that there could easily be atleast opportunity given to him to prove his worth there.

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