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Do you Want Messier for One More Year?

View Poll Results: Do you Want the Mess back for one more season?
Yes - He can teach the young players, has great leadership 18 16.36%
No - Hes going to keep a prospect from the NYR team / hes not going to help the rebuild. 92 83.64%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-16-2005, 09:44 PM
  #1
FLYLine24
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Do you Want Messier for One More Year?

My answer is a easy..HELL NO. Lev made a good point on another thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
i seriously do not want messier on the rangers again...that logjams the center position with holik and nylander there now, and doesn't leave room for some of the rangers prospects to get a shot (like immonen)
I agree with this comment 100%.


The way I see it..if he comes back...hes only thinking about himself and his stats.

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06-16-2005, 09:50 PM
  #2
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I voted no, only because he basically had his farewell game and all that. I would like to see it end the way it did. He's always been my favorite player and i'd like to see him be able to walk away from hockey with that game against buffalo being his last.

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Old
06-16-2005, 10:05 PM
  #3
barrel_master
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Apperently I'm the only one who's voted yes so far... my resoning...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=nyr

Although they aren't great, his stat's where okay. And even with Nylander at centre the log jam wouldn't be any worse then when Lindros and Nedved where around. Honestly, 2nd in team scoring with +4 on NYR isn't bad.

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06-16-2005, 10:10 PM
  #4
Barnaby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
My answer is a easy..HELL NO. Lev made a good point on another thread...


I agree with this comment 100%.


The way I see it..if he comes back...hes only thinking about himself and his stats.
Yes, the young prospects will learn more from Messier in one year, then they would with anyone else in the organization in 2 or 3. Immonen is the only potential center who could step in next year, so it's not like we're blocking Jason Spezza. IF Immonen earns his way onto the team, then why couldn't Mess play LW with Holik or something?

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Old
06-16-2005, 10:12 PM
  #5
NYR469
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can we make that one more year retroactive to 3 years ago when he should have been gone??

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06-16-2005, 10:12 PM
  #6
Barnaby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
My answer is a easy..HELL NO. Lev made a good point on another thread...


I agree with this comment 100%.


The way I see it..if he comes back...hes only thinking about himself and his stats.
He'd be coming back because he wants to play. He can probably make as big an impact for the good of the organization as anyone else. Whenever young NYR's are interviewed they often credit Mess for helping them. Who could be better to lead young player's, then the Captain himself?

He could probably play the same role Andreychuck did with TB in his first few seasons there...

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06-16-2005, 10:17 PM
  #7
Onion Boy
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I said no, but not for the stated reason.

I will never question Messier's leadership, but he seems to have issues with Holik and maybe Jagr, plus I'd worry about him and Renney butting heads. The less locker room drama the better.

I think Mess pretty much indicated his retirement at the end of last season.

It will only be a matter of time before the announcement which will be immediately followed by setting the date for his number retirement.

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Old
06-16-2005, 10:23 PM
  #8
NYR469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
He'd be coming back because he wants to play. He can probably make as big an impact for the good of the organization as anyone else. Whenever young NYR's are interviewed they often credit Mess for helping them. Who could be better to lead young player's, then the Captain himself?
his impact would be more important in the lockerroom than on the ice at this point imo, so keep him around as part of the organization in some capacity but don't do it by giving him 18 minutes of ice time/game.

but even more important is the fact that the biggest reason for a rebuild is not to get younger, it is to change the culture of the organization and create a new identity, a new era and that can't happen if messier is still here. if messier is still here then it is his team no matter what anyone says or what line he plays on. you are still linked to the past and until you let the past go you can't move on to the future. if mark is in the lockerroom as a player, everyone will look toward him to do stuff instead of stepping up themselves and emerging as the new identity of the team. for the very same reason i wouldn't bring leetch back.

love the guys for what they did in the past but you gotta cut ties and move on, hanging onto the glory days isn't gonna help

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06-16-2005, 10:25 PM
  #9
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Wouldn't mind Mess as an assistant coach actually... I would just hate to lose one of the best leaders, and most experienced players in the game as we begin a rebuild. Mine and most peoples argument over the last few years was his 20 min a game when clawing for the playoffs. That shouldn't be an issue right now - I would hope...

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Old
06-16-2005, 10:34 PM
  #10
Larry Melnyk
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I think I'd rather have Zero Cigar and Dave Krapa back...But seriously, If I had the choice between another year of hockey with Mess on the Rangers or another lockout year, I'd take the latter..I never want to see Messier's cro mag mug on garden ice ever again...Unless it's a "Thank you" night....Sorry, I've had my fill of the old and just want to get on with a new era...

It has nothing to do with Messier's on ice ability even though, and with another year of age, it will most probably have deteriorated a little more...It's because he has provided zero leadership and zero mentoring for youngsters over the last few years---why should it change--- and the team needs leaders to stay and develop as the team does...This team needs to start over from scratch..It needs to be Renney's team, not Ren and Messy's...For whatever reason (earned or not), players and coachers will defer to Mess and it will stall the development of the team...That is not Mess's fault, but it will still happen as long as he's around..Remove the temptation and adolation completley...

All this being said, knowing Sather and some of the things he's hinted at, Mess will indeed be back foir another year to help usher in the rebirth of hockey in New York!!! And to mentor Sidney Crosby...

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Old
06-16-2005, 10:49 PM
  #11
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At this point

I see zero benefit for the growth of this franchise.

It's one thing to say something on the bench, but another thing when you go out there and do the exact opposite.

Messier was able to score most of his goals (the last year he played) from being in the right place at the right time. That's an innate ability, not something that can be taught.

I believe that he'd be more of a hinderance than a help at this point.

Want to hire him as something of an assistant that doesn't sit on the bench, maybe upstairs with Allaire to evaluate the team, fine but he doesn't belong on the ice.

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Old
06-16-2005, 10:51 PM
  #12
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If he could play LW.

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06-17-2005, 07:07 AM
  #13
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Mark Messier?He will turn 45 next January

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Old
06-17-2005, 08:17 AM
  #14
Levitate
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Quote:
Although they aren't great, his stat's where okay. And even with Nylander at centre the log jam wouldn't be any worse then when Lindros and Nedved where around. Honestly, 2nd in team scoring with +4 on NYR isn't bad.
that's fine except we don't want to go that route again, like it was with nedved and lindros around. that was just about the entire point in the whole fire sale that went on back at the end of last season. it may not be "worse" but that's not good enough, we don't want to maintain the status quo of what used to be, we want to do better now with giving our prospects a chance to play

Quote:
Yes, the young prospects will learn more from Messier in one year, then they would with anyone else in the organization in 2 or 3. Immonen is the only potential center who could step in next year, so it's not like we're blocking Jason Spezza. IF Immonen earns his way onto the team, then why couldn't Mess play LW with Holik or something?
i don't agree with the whole "prospects will learn more from messier". what did lundmark learn from messier? how to water ski through center ice, that's what he learned. i expect young guys to talk about how they learned from messier because do you really think any of them, when asked, are going to say "i learned nothing from him except how to be lazy during practices and skate lazy during games" they're not going to say that...i don't believe he's "teaching" much anymore. and yes it blocks immonen, also lundmark if they decide they want him to play center, moore if they want him to play center, etc. i don't think it's a good idea to stack the center with vets, not at this point anymore. there's just been too many years where we've said "oh one more vet to play here because we need this or that" and in this case enough is enough. and i honestly believe messier was at the very least part of the problem we've heard about in recent years with the "country club atmosphere" and issues in the lockerroom. and last, do you honestly think messier would play LW and i don't want to see BS power struggles between renney and messier.

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06-17-2005, 08:23 AM
  #15
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i said no. after leetch was traded last year, remember his comments?

he didn't give a quick indication that he was unsure about returning. if anything he sounded like a guy leaning towards retirement or ready to go to a sure contender. he sounded like a defeated man in the sense of "i came back to new york to win and now that the organization is looking like it will rebuild i don't really feel like being a part of it" type of way. even holik and jagr, both of whom were against rebuilding too, quickly changed their tunes after some thought. that didn't happen with messier...or at least it wasn't reported.

and you'd think it would be reported at least if he did...

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06-17-2005, 08:27 AM
  #16
Levitate
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actually seemed to me that messier was more bummed about not having his buddy leetch around anymore than he was about not winning. like he had come back to hang around with the good ol' boys


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06-17-2005, 08:49 AM
  #17
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Its difficult not to get nostalgic because of all he's done and on paper his stats look good but its time to get a clean break from the past. Let Jagr lead this team, let him be the player he was in world championships. Messier's presence always overshadows everyone else, and everyone always takes a step back to let him lead. If Messier wants to play another year he should bookend his career with the Oilers.

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06-17-2005, 09:13 AM
  #18
Shadowtron
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I didn't vote because it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. If used properly, Mess can still be an asset. However, I perfectly understand the the argument that it's time to turn the page and pass the 'C' over to a new leader. I'd like to see him sign with a good team and get into the playoffs one last time. It must be damn hard for him not making the playoffs in seven years.

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06-17-2005, 11:40 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
that's fine except we don't want to go that route again, like it was with nedved and lindros around. that was just about the entire point in the whole fire sale that went on back at the end of last season. it may not be "worse" but that's not good enough, we don't want to maintain the status quo of what used to be, we want to do better now with giving our prospects a chance to play
.
Fair enough, if the Rags are gonna go the complete rebuild route great. However, I still think Messier will be willing to come back and play LW if he has to. And if he does, I don't see why it'd be a huge problem to have him back.

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06-17-2005, 12:08 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
... I'd like to see him sign with a good team and get into the playoffs one last time. It must be damn hard for him not making the playoffs in seven years.
He could have done that last year when Sather made his deadline deals to contending teams.

If i remember correctly, Messier said he'd retire if traded.

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06-17-2005, 12:54 PM
  #21
Shadowtron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
He could have done that last year when Sather made his deadline deals to contending teams.

If i remember correctly, Messier said he'd retire if traded.
Yup, you are correct. I remember reading about that.

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06-17-2005, 01:06 PM
  #22
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No way. His personality is too dominating in the dressing room, which has been part of the problem over the last few years (I say part, not all). When players like Lindros and Holik should've been becoming the real team leaders, Mess was always in the way and the team would've been better off with one of them in that spot. To bring him back is to do the same thing, yet again. I love the guy, but it's time to move on.

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06-17-2005, 01:16 PM
  #23
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Love Mess but its time for new leadership. Today's Toronto Star states that a weighted lottery may not happen. I am too old to learn how to cut and paste; however, the site is www.torontostar.com.Go to sports, then Leafs hockey, then nhl notebook. Usually very informative info. Hope it is not true.

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06-17-2005, 01:24 PM
  #24
Levitate
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ehh, from all accounts, the toronto sun is like the calgary sun (which i did read a lot once)...a complete rag, kind of like the NY Post. i don't trust much that comes from any of the canadian "sun" newspapers

and it really just rehashes the rumor that was out there earlier this week, which hasn't been substantiated by anything as far as i know. i think a couple of GMs are also on record recently saying they believe there will be a weighted system.

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Old
06-17-2005, 01:57 PM
  #25
FLYLine24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
Love Mess but its time for new leadership. Today's Toronto Star states that a weighted lottery may not happen. I am too old to learn how to cut and paste; however, the site is www.torontostar.com.Go to sports, then Leafs hockey, then nhl notebook. Usually very informative info. Hope it is not true.
Its BS..it will never happen. Just another bogus story published during the lockout.

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