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Alfredsson talk II

View Poll Results: Alfie leaving, Who's fault?
Alfie 115 43.07%
Murray 15 5.62%
Melnyk 137 51.31%
Voters: 267. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #101
Liliaceae
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
booooooooooooooooooooooooo
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34

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08-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #102
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Anyone who says Murray should be put to death.

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08-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #103
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Don't get the hate for Melnyk. We might not have a team it weren't for him, and it's tough to see how Alfredsson is innocent.
because we lost the best Senator ever because of him..... and he kinda of comes off as an idiot with crime scene unit for Karlsson, and acting like a child over the casino.

he just doesn't conduct himself very well.

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08-15-2013, 10:54 AM
  #104
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booooooooooooooooooooooooo
Alfredsson > Sens?

Huh?

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08-15-2013, 10:55 AM
  #105
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Alfredsson > Sens?

Huh?
no it used to be Alfredsson=Sens

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well played.

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08-15-2013, 10:56 AM
  #106
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Don't get the hate for Melnyk. We might not have a team it weren't for him, and it's tough to see how Alfredsson is innocent.
Melnyk just cost future players to play even more hardball with him.

Every agent of every Senators roster player just guaranteeed a minimum 20% ask over market value the next time their contract is up...

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08-15-2013, 10:57 AM
  #107
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Melnyk just cost future players to play even more hardball with him.

Every agent of every Senators roster player just guaranteeed a minimum 20% ask over market value the next time their contract is up...
Pfft, sure they will.

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08-15-2013, 10:58 AM
  #108
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Every agent of every Senators roster player just guaranteeed a minimum 20% ask over market value the next time their contract is up...
Tbh I have no idea why people think this.

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08-15-2013, 10:58 AM
  #109
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Quote:
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Don't get the hate for Melnyk. We might not have a team it weren't for him, and it's tough to see how Alfredsson is innocent.
He had an agreement with Alfredsson and when it came time for Melnyk to go through with this agreement, he asked Alfredsson for another favour instead.

#BlameMelnyk

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08-15-2013, 10:58 AM
  #110
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No ones fault. Stop pointing fingers at people and just accept the fact that whats done is done. No amount of complaining is going to fix it. Also, how do we know that alfredsson is really telling the whole truth? I have heard so many stories by murray, melnyk and now alfreddson, that i do not know who to actually believe. So i am just going to let it go and look forward to next season.


Last edited by Senators65: 08-15-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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08-15-2013, 10:59 AM
  #111
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There should be a 33,33,33 option. The 1% left over goes to whomever else you would like to blame.

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08-15-2013, 11:00 AM
  #112
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Tbh I have no idea why people think this.
Have you ever negotiated the price of something? Anything? Car? House??

Leverage.

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08-15-2013, 11:00 AM
  #113
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He had an agreement with Alfredsson and when it came time for Melnyk to go through with this agreement, he asked Alfredsson for another favour instead.
Doesn't seem like an agreement because that 1 year was tacked on because both the team and Alfie knew he was not going to player. When Alfie decided to play that year was when he felt he should get more.

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Have you ever negotiated the price of something? Anything? Car? House??

Leverage.
That's not an answer as to why it would affect negotiations for other players.

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Old
08-15-2013, 11:01 AM
  #114
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Don't get the hate for Melnyk. We might not have a team it weren't for him, and it's tough to see how Alfredsson is innocent.
Because for some reason a lot of Ottawa fans are those politically correct, whiny, weak minded type personality people, who really don't get it.

No one is innocent here, especially Alfie. Screw everyone.

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08-15-2013, 11:02 AM
  #115
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Doesn't seem like an agreement because that 1 year was tacked on because both the team and Alfie knew he was not going to player. When Alfie decided to play that year was when he felt he should get more.
They weren't sure that he was going to play and if he did they were to make up for it in the new contract extension. Instead, Alfredsson got low balled.

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08-15-2013, 11:02 AM
  #116
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I never really cared much about the "why", whether it was (1) money, or (2) a better chance at the Cup.

I just think it's crazy that so many people presumed Alfredsson 'screwed over' Ottawa. To me it speaks to a certain insecurity of character on behalf of some. Alfredsson did what he wanted for himself, and power to him for that.

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08-15-2013, 11:04 AM
  #117
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Of course not, because they didn't circumvent the cap, Alfie played.
They're not going to charge a team for thinking about something.
Were the Devils punished for circumventing the cap or attempting to?

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08-15-2013, 11:04 AM
  #118
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I'll give an overview on the situation and indirectly respond to some points by posters.

I was worried when Alfie mentioned the cap circumvention but as mentioned it was no harm because he actually played, unlike say Mikka Kipprusoff. Was this whole scenario caused by the old CBA and backdiving contracts? It wouldn't have played out this way under the new one. Alfie wouldn't have felt short changed and the Sens wouldn't have had to "pay him back". Let's not beat around the bush, management took advantage of Alfredsson and his generosity over his career. They tried to do it one last time and it back fired. I do believe that once they realized they dun goof'd with negotiations that they told Alfie they would sign him for whatever he wanted. But obviously he had made up his mind and wanted to move on. Can't say I blame him he felt disrespected and a little kiss and make up wasn't going to work.

The Sens made a shrewd business move plain and simple. I think a lot of people getting mad at management need to tone it down a little. Alfie made a business decision as well did he not? Something I'm interested in is how much did Alfie want from the Sens? Is it possible he wanted more than the 5.5 from Detroit because he gave the Sens a discount prior? Just something to think about and it is an answer we will never find out.

I'm happy Alfredsson came out and defended himself and gave a little more balance to the story. Like it has been mentioned we have Melnyk's account, Alfredsson's account and Murray's. We are never going to find out the actual truth but out of everyone's I think Murray gave the most balance.

The big question now is will this come back to bite the Sens in the butt? Do we have a Hossa/Chara like situation arising? I don't think so. Had the Sens offered Chara what he wanted he would hopefully still be a Senator. What this does is teaches all the young players (Karlsson included) a lesson about hockey and that it is a business. I really doubt that after this scenario Karlsson is set on not coming back to Ottawa after his contract 5 years is a long time and everything can change. Lehner, Zibby and others aren't going to refuse to play for Ottawa.

I'm just happy we have some closure on the situation and hopefully Alfie isn't the villain he was this past month. Thanks for taking the time to read.

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08-15-2013, 11:05 AM
  #119
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So, here's the thing: without the numbers, this is pretty strictly he said/he said.

Alfie was very up front, but we don't know what he considered fair compensation. Everyone is super eager to throw Melnyk and Murray under the bus, and I wonder how many of the would be a little squeamish if we overpaid Alfie by a couple million. Alfie, all due respect is a depreciating asset that we essentially replaced at a bargain with Clarke Macarthur. I'm not gonna immediately throw management under the bus for blowing a budget on sentimentality.

Fact is, Alfie has as much to gain from painting himself as the victim as the Sens do, so don't pretend we're suddenly hearing the unbiased 'real story'. Nobody cared when the Stars severed ties with Modano, and I see this as not particularly different. Sens didn't wanna overpay a beloved but replaceable player, and he left for Detroit. Enjoy that season at the end of your career no one will remember, Alfie.

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08-15-2013, 11:09 AM
  #120
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Seems that what I perceived all along is what really happened.

- Alfie asks for extension with Sens with a fair raise (at least in his view)
- Sens brass thinks they can get him for much cheaper and he will obviously take another hometown discount
- Alfie doesn't want to take a hometown discount and is making negotiations tougher. Also asks BM on what supporting players will give the team a better chance at the cup.
- BM/Melynk take longer than Alfie is willing to wait to come to a conclusion on what they should offer Alfie. In the end a low-ball(home down discount) offer is made.
- Alfie doesn't feel like its going to be enough. Deadline approaches and other teams start calling him for his services.
- Alfie's begins to think "what if I left scenario". The process of leaving begins
- BM/Melynk realize that there is a possibility he might leave. Panic sets in and "blank cheque" offer is made at the 11th hour.
- Alfie is excitied to play out his last year elsewhere and his Swedish comrades in Detroit have convinced him so. He's made up his mind he's leaving.

Bye Bye Lord Alfie. You will be missed. FU Melynk!
I seem to recall a lot of people talking about cheering for the crest on the front of the jersey, not the number on the back. Meanwhile we are listening to 3 truths and trying to pick which one we agree with.

The reality is that without Melnyk the Ottawa Senators do not exist... sometimes hard decisions have to be made and players are lost in the process. It still stands that Alfredsson got greedy in what will be his final season and I still believe that he had other reasons to go to Detroit aside from money.

If he asked what players could be brought in to help the team, knew there was an internal cap, knew BM was interested in Ryan and still left, then the onus is still on Alfredsson. He still does not look squeaky clean in this situation and anyone completely siding with him is being a bit of a homer.

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Old
08-15-2013, 11:09 AM
  #121
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I like how an owner pocketing money made by the team he owns is somehow distressing.

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08-15-2013, 11:10 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundmark17 View Post
I'll give an overview on the situation and indirectly respond to some points by posters.

I was worried when Alfie mentioned the cap circumvention but as mentioned it was no harm because he actually played, unlike say Mikka Kipprusoff. Was this whole scenario caused by the old CBA and backdiving contracts? It wouldn't have played out this way under the new one. Alfie wouldn't have felt short changed and the Sens wouldn't have had to "pay him back". Let's not beat around the bush, management took advantage of Alfredsson and his generosity over his career. They tried to do it one last time and it back fired. I do believe that once they realized they dun goof'd with negotiations that they told Alfie they would sign him for whatever he wanted. But obviously he had made up his mind and wanted to move on. Can't say I blame him he felt disrespected and a little kiss and make up wasn't going to work.

The Sens made a shrewd business move plain and simple. I think a lot of people getting mad at management need to tone it down a little. Alfie made a business decision as well did he not? Something I'm interested in is how much did Alfie want from the Sens? Is it possible he wanted more than the 5.5 from Detroit because he gave the Sens a discount prior? Just something to think about and it is an answer we will never find out.

I'm happy Alfredsson came out and defended himself and gave a little more balance to the story. Like it has been mentioned we have Melnyk's account, Alfredsson's account and Murray's. We are never going to find out the actual truth but out of everyone's I think Murray gave the most balance.

The big question now is will this come back to bite the Sens in the butt? Do we have a Hossa/Chara like situation arising? I don't think so. Had the Sens offered Chara what he wanted he would hopefully still be a Senator. What this does is teaches all the young players (Karlsson included) a lesson about hockey and that it is a business. I really doubt that after this scenario Karlsson is set on not coming back to Ottawa after his contract 5 years is a long time and everything can change. Lehner, Zibby and others aren't going to refuse to play for Ottawa.

I'm just happy we have some closure on the situation and hopefully Alfie isn't the villain he was this past month. Thanks for taking the time to read.
Well said. I hope Melnyk doesn't open his mouth and say something stupid.

Hopefully Alfie comes back to Ottawa after he retires. There better be a spot for him on the team.

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08-15-2013, 11:11 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpectacular View Post
So, here's the thing: without the numbers, this is pretty strictly he said/he said.

Alfie was very up front, but we don't know what he considered fair compensation. Everyone is super eager to throw Melnyk and Murray under the bus, and I wonder how many of the would be a little squeamish if we overpaid Alfie by a couple million. Alfie, all due respect is a depreciating asset that we essentially replaced at a bargain with Clarke Macarthur. I'm not gonna immediately throw management under the bus for blowing a budget on sentimentality.

Fact is, Alfie has as much to gain from painting himself as the victim as the Sens do, so don't pretend we're suddenly hearing the unbiased 'real story'. Nobody cared when the Stars severed ties with Modano, and I see this as not particularly different. Sens didn't wanna overpay a beloved but replaceable player, and he left for Detroit. Enjoy that season at the end of your career no one will remember, Alfie.
This...

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Old
08-15-2013, 11:17 AM
  #124
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The big question now is will this come back to bite the Sens in the butt? Do we have a Hossa/Chara like situation arising? I don't think so. Had the Sens offered Chara what he wanted he would hopefully still be a Senator. What this does is teaches all the young players (Karlsson included) a lesson about hockey and that it is a business. I really doubt that after this scenario Karlsson is set on not coming back to Ottawa after his contract 5 years is a long time and everything can change. Lehner, Zibby and others aren't going to refuse to play for Ottawa.

I'm just happy we have some closure on the situation and hopefully Alfie isn't the villain he was this past month. Thanks for taking the time to read.
Who knows what damage was done with the relationship of some of the young Swedish guys. If we praised Alfie's relationship helping those players, losing him in a less than ideal situations won't help relations with those guys.

All of this is minor compared to the real damage that came out of this situation - that the Sens are a severely budget constrained team.

We're probably not going to be able to keep our high end guys past a second contract. Spezza, Karlsson, Ryan - those guys are not going to stick around on a team that needs to catch lightning in a bottle to win on this budget. Those players will get paid the same on top contending teams.

Basically, it's pointless until we get a new owner or investors with money. Melynk just can't fund a contending team. The Alfie situation just makes it really obvious.

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08-15-2013, 11:18 AM
  #125
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If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yours forever. If it doesn’t, then it was never meant to be.

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