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How much damage has the Alfredsson fiasco done to the Sens reputation?

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Old
08-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #26
FolignoQuantumLeap
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
NJ said it wasn't cap circumvention if Kovalchuk didn't end up signing the contract. The league disagreed.
Wat?

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08-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #27
HavlatMach9
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Shea Weber's caphit is 7.9m and that's after an unholy amount of backdiving.

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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Wat?
NJ didn't circumvent, they attempted to.

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08-15-2013, 12:28 PM
  #28
One Turris God
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Anyone wanna fill me in? I missed it, but people on Twitter seem to think this was terrible for the team.. what happened?

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08-15-2013, 12:31 PM
  #29
SpezDispenser
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Not at all. Alfie was asking too much, it became about the money. End of story.

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08-15-2013, 12:31 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish Connection View Post
Anyone wanna fill me in? I missed it, but people on Twitter seem to think this was terrible for the team.. what happened?
Basically it was all about the money for alfredsson. He actually never thought that the wings had a better shot at the cup then ottawa. The sens organization stalled in negotiations and alfie decided to go to the team that actually gave him the money that he thought he deserved.

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08-15-2013, 12:32 PM
  #31
SpezDispenser
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Originally Posted by Swedish Connection View Post
Anyone wanna fill me in? I missed it, but people on Twitter seem to think this was terrible for the team.. what happened?
No idea why they have their panties in such a knot. Especially RadekBonksMullet or whatever his name is.

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08-15-2013, 12:33 PM
  #32
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My view of Alfie has changed. I can't believe a 41 year old 2nd line player wanted $7 million for 1 year, or 12 for 2. That is crazy! He's willing to play for Detroit for $5.5, but wants 7 from the sens? Wow! How much did teemu make the last few years?

Yes, Melnyk was a bit of a tightwad. Jacobs has been a tightwad for 30 years, and notoriously turns the screws on the union every cba negotiation, that doesn't keep anyone from signing with the Bruins.

It's all business.

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08-15-2013, 12:43 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post

NJ didn't circumvent, they attempted to.
Well yeah, but wasn't the contract terminated by the league? As in it didn't get approved when it went through the head office? Kovalchuk would have had to have signed it if it got that far.

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08-15-2013, 12:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Well yeah, but wasn't the contract terminated by the league? As in it didn't get approved when it went through the head office? Kovalchuk would have had to have signed it if it got that far.
The contract was terminated and the Devils were punished. The Devils weren't punished for the contract that went though; they were punished for attempting the contract that didn't.

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Old
08-15-2013, 12:49 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
The contract was terminated and the Devils were punished. The Devils weren't punished for the contract that went though; they were punished for attempting the contract that didn't.
I guess we do not have to worry about getting punished:

Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 51m
Bill Daly says mutual understanding on Alfredsson's previous contract amounts to circumvention, but doesn't think looking back is productive

Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 50m
Bill Daly believes cap circumvention was "rampant" under last CBA, which is why rules were changed in new one.

Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 45m
Daly added that a thorough investigation would be needed to determine if Alfie/Sens violated CBA. But the NHL won't be looking back.

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Old
08-15-2013, 12:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
The contract was terminated and the Devils were punished. The Devils weren't punished for the contract that went though; they were punished for attempting the contract that didn't.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. So, you understand that Kovalchuk signed both?

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Old
08-15-2013, 12:51 PM
  #37
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Oh please. We'll be fine - I think if anything it'll show that some fiscal restraint based upon intelligent decisions is what's best for the team. If Murray signed Alfie for $7mil or $12mil for two seasons, it would have been a huge mistake. I actually have a lot of respect for Sens ownership and management in NOT succumbing to emotional pressure in signing a 41 year old player to that ridiculous contract.

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Old
08-15-2013, 01:03 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Step View Post
Oh please. We'll be fine - I think if anything it'll show that some fiscal restraint based upon intelligent decisions is what's best for the team. If Murray signed Alfie for $7mil or $12mil for two seasons, it would have been a huge mistake. I actually have a lot of respect for Sens ownership and management in NOT succumbing to emotional pressure in signing a 41 year old player to that ridiculous contract.
As much as I hate Eugene Melnyk this is the right answer.

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08-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #39
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I think the asking price of 7 mill for one season or 12 for two was high, but you expect high figures in the first offer. The Sens apparently countered with 4.5 for one, which is quite a gap. Seeing as the Alfie camp did not counter-offer with 6 for 1 or 10 for 2, which would have been closer to fair, I believe Murray when he says that Alfie's agent probably did not keep him informed.

Seriously, 4.5 for one year of a 41 year old winger is more than fair and is not in any way an insult. Making a fair offer will not hurt our organization at all. The only thing that may hurt us is the accusation that there was a verbal agreement to make up for the lower pay in the tail end of the back diving contract. That becomes a reputation issue with players, and if credibility is lost then we can pay for it in contracts down the road.

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Old
08-15-2013, 01:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Step View Post
Oh please. We'll be fine - I think if anything it'll show that some fiscal restraint based upon intelligent decisions is what's best for the team. If Murray signed Alfie for $7mil or $12mil for two seasons, it would have been a huge mistake. I actually have a lot of respect for Sens ownership and management in NOT succumbing to emotional pressure in signing a 41 year old player to that ridiculous contract.
This is the perfect response.

We'd be the laughing stock of the league if it was announced that our free agency period consisted of signing Alfredsson for $12 million over two years or $7 million over 1 year.

I can guarantee you Teemu Selanne isn't asking for $7 million from the Ducks.

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Old
08-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
This is the perfect response.

We'd be the laughing stock of the league if it was announced that our free agency period consisted of signing Alfredsson for $12 million over two years or $7 million over 1 year.

I can guarantee you Teemu Selanne isn't asking for $7 million from the Ducks.
Teemu Selanne isn't trying to balance out a year that he played for $1 million.

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08-15-2013, 02:16 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Ever22 View Post
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 50m
Bill Daly believes cap circumvention was "rampant" under last CBA, which is why rules were changed in new one.
The most relevant piece here. The CBA allowed for this kind of contract structure, and every team and agent used it to their advantage. See: every long term deal handed out to a UFA. Nothing to see here.

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08-15-2013, 02:18 PM
  #43
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The most relevant piece here. The CBA allowed for this kind of contract structure, and every team and agent used it to their advantage. See: every long term deal handed out to a UFA. Nothing to see here.
Except for NJ. They really want their 1st back

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08-15-2013, 02:18 PM
  #44
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Damage to the Sens = Little to none imo, and if we are winning people won't care

Damage to Alfie = Fairly significant I say. If he had just left and said thanks then people would probably get over it. But now his rep is less repairable imo

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08-15-2013, 02:21 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by great1 View Post
Teemu Selanne isn't trying to balance out a year that he played for $1 million.
Evidently Teemu considers all possible outcomes when he signs a deal, making the whole retroactive raise-seeking process unnecessary.

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08-15-2013, 02:26 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Except for NJ. They really want their 1st back
This is true, and they have a right to be pissed, because everybody knew it was happening a little bit - just like this deal with Alfie - and they only got in trouble because they weren't subtle about it. I still don't know what rule in the CBA they actually broke, if any, but they were definitely guilty of circumventing the <i>intent</i> of the cap.

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Old
08-15-2013, 02:28 PM
  #47
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With Alfie it was all about the money pure and simple. The story from the Alfredsson-Barry camp has changed from day to day. What Bryan Murray said has not changed. He's a very up front guy. I hope Alfie and the family like living in Motown.

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08-15-2013, 02:40 PM
  #48
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I'm a big fan of what Melnyk did for us, but at a certain point, if his financial situation will keep him from icing a competitive team, then perhaps an NHL team isn't a good business for him. Internal cap or not, there is no reason why both Ryan and Alfie shouldn't be on the team today. Alfie has taken pay cuts forever to keep the team competitive as we had big names on the team, and when they finally have money, instead of doing the right thing and compensating him, they play hardball (well, Melnyk).

Alfie was and always will be a bigger part of this franchises' history than Melnyk.

Enough money is generated through other events. Regardless though, a one year contract for Alfie wouldn't have been the end of the world. I don't blame Alfie one bit, and this internal budget crap is starting to annoy me.

Like I said, if you can't pay for a hockey team, find a buyer that can. Ottawa is still a strong market and will only get stronger.

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08-15-2013, 03:23 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Not at all. Alfie was asking too much, it became about the money. End of story.
$7M was his asking price, which was really over 2 years. Part of that $7M was to offset the $1M he played for in 2012-13, which neither party expected him to play.

So in reality, Alfie was asking for $8M for 2012-13 and 2013-14, average $4M/season, very fair IMO.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 08-15-2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old
08-15-2013, 03:30 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
$7M was his asking price, which was really over 2 years. Part of that $7M was to offset the $1M he played for in 2012-13, which neither party expected him to play.

So in reality, Alfie was asking for $8M for 2012-13 and $2013-14, average $4M/season, very fair IMO.
Exactly

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