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How much damage has the Alfredsson fiasco done to the Sens reputation?

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08-15-2013, 03:38 PM
  #51
Orr123
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IMO this looks more like whinning from Alfie's part.

I don't know the whole scoop, but when a player agreed to a contract, then played it out, sadly, he agreed to that money. He shouldn't be over-rewarded after the fact just because he played out a contract (that was less money than he deserved) that he agreed upon.

Its like saying I got a job, and I agreed to a lower salary for a year. Worked that year then flipped my **** when they wouldn't give me way more than I deserved the following year. Just looks bad on him IMO.

Either way, at this point I'm actually happy to have Alfie out, and the Sens can move on and focus on winning and moving forward, and not making a 41 year old happy.

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08-15-2013, 03:44 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
Exactly
So do you believe that Alfredsson was worth the $6 million a year he received previously?

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08-15-2013, 03:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
So do you believe that Alfredsson was worth the $6 million a year he received previously?
For 60 points a season at his best? For a 41 year old player? Hell no.

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08-15-2013, 03:56 PM
  #54
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With Alfie it was all about the money pure and simple. The story from the Alfredsson-Barry camp has changed from day to day. What Bryan Murray said has not changed. He's a very up front guy. I hope Alfie and the family like living in Motown.
Murray is up front, but he does work for Melnyk and he is going to do his best to protect the organization, it is part of his job description.

However it is obvious there is quite a gap between what Barry and Murray are saying about the Alfie situation. To be honest I don't see any reason for Barry to lie, even if he is an agent.

If Murray was offering $4.5M, and Barry was operating on the basis that the Sens needed to adjust the 2012-13 contract year played at $1M based on previous discussions, this provides the insight into the differences in how each side is talking.

The Sens offer of $4.5M plus the $1M for last season means Alfie would average $2.75M/year for last season and for 2013-14. A declining Alfie or not, definitely not fair payment for what he brings.

With each side talking from a different starting point, neither is being untruthful, just selective to different degrees.

The truth is Melnyk didn't want to compensate Alfie for the last year of a four year contract neither side expected to him to play. Barry obviously felt this was a non-starter in terms of negotiating a new deal.

Murray makes public he was offering Alfie $4.5M for one year, Joe Fan thinks this is more than reasonable. Yet Barry is looking at two years, the last and next when he asks for $7M, which will give Alfie $4M average for 2012-2014.

When Murray presents this to Melnyk, he says no. Melnyk made his decision to save a few million, fair enough.

However IMO it isn't appropriate he goes to the media after the fact and suggests he was surprised by Alfie's response and even suggesting Alfie was asking for too much.

Alfie would have made $10M easily on the open market for last season and 2013-14, Melnyk wanted him at half the money and lost the gamble.

What has resulted due to Melnyk's decision not to correct something that was unfair, isn't about Murray or Barry, its about what Melnyk decided NOt to say IMO.

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08-15-2013, 04:04 PM
  #55
Big Papi
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Alfie helped the team huge earlier in his career taking a cut, and the like. I still respect him for this.

Wanting to get paid in lieu, I can understand this, but I think that the nice corner office with whatever title he wanted on the door was meant to be the silver lining, not a $7 million final season.

Alfie made $55 over his time in Ottawa

Similar players (quickly done):
Hossa: 58 million
Naslund: 43 M
Iginla" 69 M
Selanne: 68 million
Thornton: 63 M

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08-15-2013, 04:08 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr123 View Post
IMO this looks more like whinning from Alfie's part.

I don't know the whole scoop, but when a player agreed to a contract, then played it out, sadly, he agreed to that money. He shouldn't be over-rewarded after the fact just because he played out a contract (that was less money than he deserved) that he agreed upon.

Its like saying I got a job, and I agreed to a lower salary for a year. Worked that year then flipped my **** when they wouldn't give me way more than I deserved the following year. Just looks bad on him IMO.

Either way, at this point I'm actually happy to have Alfie out, and the Sens can move on and focus on winning and moving forward, and not making a 41 year old happy.
You are ignoring the fact that both sides agreed to adjustments in the $1M.

The Sens (Melnyk) just let it sit. I believe the reasoning at the time was the lock-out and not knowing what the new CBA might bring.

So while I agree in principle about a signed contract should be honored, if that contract was manipulated to help the Sens while having no expectation the player would play the final year, that changes things dramatically IMO.

Then add to this the Sens verbally agreed to make adjustment with an extension to the contract, then reneged.

IMO the more I hear about the situation the more surprised I am Alfie even considered playing another year for Melnyk.

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08-15-2013, 04:14 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
You are ignoring the fact that both sides agreed to adjustments in the $1M.

The Sens (Melnyk) just let it sit. I believe the reasoning at the time was the lock-out and not knowing what the new CBA might bring.

So while I agree in principle about a signed contract should be honored, if that contract was manipulated to help the Sens while having no expectation the player would play the final year, that changes things dramatically IMO.

Then add to this the Sens verbally agreed to make adjustment with an extension to the contract, then reneged.

IMO the more I hear about the situation the more surprised I am Alfie even considered playing another year for Melnyk.
the senators did not technically reneg. no number seems to have been agreed upon prior to this cluster****, and the senators are not the ones who walked away from negotiations. Just because they agreed to a nice payday for Alfie (which starting negotiations at $4.5 is a good starting point from mgmt perspective). It's unfair to expect Ottawa to just blank cheque-it.

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08-15-2013, 04:41 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Papi View Post
the senators did not technically reneg. no number seems to have been agreed upon prior to this cluster****, and the senators are not the ones who walked away from negotiations. Just because they agreed to a nice payday for Alfie (which starting negotiations at $4.5 is a good starting point from mgmt perspective). It's unfair to expect Ottawa to just blank cheque-it.


According to Murray, JP Barry has a different take.

Plus its Murray that brought up the blank cheque, not Alfie or Barry.

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08-15-2013, 04:44 PM
  #59
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It confirms what Therrien said about us in the playoffs.

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08-15-2013, 04:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCode View Post
With Alfie it was all about the money pure and simple. The story from the Alfredsson-Barry camp has changed from day to day. What Bryan Murray said has not changed. He's a very up front guy. I hope Alfie and the family like living in Motown.
.

Alfie said nothing until today and took all the blame on himself which seemed to suit and even embolden Melnyk and Murray who contradict themselves and each other every other day.
.
He probably finally felt he had to defend himself for his own and his kids sake.

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08-15-2013, 04:51 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
So do you believe that Alfredsson was worth the $6 million a year he received previously?
You're missing the point. Alfie's last 2 contracts averaged to $4,816,951 and $4,875,000 respectively. Based on what was said, both sides didn't expect him to play out that last year at 1 million, so the contract, in theory (then) was for 6.17 million the last 3 years. In those 3 years he scored 161 points in 199 games, so I would say that figure is fair based on his numbers alone (excluding his leadership, defensive abilities and playoff performances).

So that leaves this past season, played at 1 million dollars. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to balance this past season plus the upcoming one at 4 million per.

Keep in mind also that his 2004-2009 contract was a huge discount for the team and both sides knew this. It was a concession that Alfie made to keep the team competitive. This was well documented at the time.

Now, the team has that extra wiggle room under the cap. I think it's only fair he be compensated for the sacrifices he made for the good of the team (relatively speaking, of course. I'm aware we're talking about millionaires), especially when you factor in that this was agreed upon by both parties prior to the end of his current contract.

The Sens offered him 4.5, which would average to 2.75 per for last year and the upcoming season. Very much under market value and the Detroit contract reflects that (they have no part in last years 1 million salary, so their average is exactly what he signed, 5.5). Plus, the whole blank check fiasco also confirms that ownership/management knew he was worth more.

IMO, Murray knew this wasn't the right way to go about it, but his hands were tied.

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08-15-2013, 04:54 PM
  #62
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People forget that Alfredsson didn't have to decide to sign with Detroit right away.

I'm sure if he said he wanted more time to make up his mind, they would have been cool with that.

To me, the fact that he signed so quickly makes me think he had a temper tantrum, and went crying off to the Red Wings.

He felt scorned that the team wasn't willing to overpay him based on previous years salary, so he took his ball and went somewhere else to play.

I'm over it though. If Ottawa doesn't win a cup, I hope Alfredsson does (not at our expense). I will cheer for him in the Winter Classic, and likely any other time Detroit plays Toronto or Montreal.

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08-15-2013, 04:58 PM
  #63
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So in the summer of 2012, Alfie meets with Murray and asks for an 8m extension, making his pay 4.5m over the past season and coming season.
And this summer, he asks for 7m or 12m over the next two years.

Sens didn't want to pay that, while Alfie felt he should have been. There doesn't seem to have been room for negotiations.

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08-15-2013, 04:59 PM
  #64
OttawaSenators11
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Fat pig over @ the sun and/or Murray is going to be on PTS

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08-15-2013, 07:16 PM
  #65
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Fat pig over @ the sun and/or Murray is going to be on PTS
That's pretty rude.

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08-15-2013, 07:53 PM
  #66
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Lol, wut? How does this damage Sens in ANY way?

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08-15-2013, 08:02 PM
  #67
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This is going to cause so much damage that the team is going to have to change its identity entirely. They are going to have to change their name. Bryan Murray will have to retire. All the players will be either traded for new players or let go and our prospect pool will fill the empty spots. The jerseys will be changed. Even a new arena will have to be built.

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08-15-2013, 08:07 PM
  #68
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I don't think this hurts the Sens, Alfie looks like an @sshat in all of this. It's greed, pure greed why he isn't here.

fact, Alfie waits until 5 days before Free Agency to say, yeah, I can play another year, give me $7 million dollars. The Sens say, we can't do that, but here's $4.5 million dollars, he signs in Detriot for $5.5 million. Anyone who leaves things to the last minute, basically tying Murray's hands and being demanding is not negotiating in good faith, especially after making a ton of $$$$ in a front-loaded contract, a contract tha Alfie wanted front-loaded.

I have a great amount of respect for Murray, even though the Sens could have used the funds elsewhere, they reached out to Matt carkner after last season and offered him a one-year deal, they didn't have to do that given his knees and all, but they wanted to take care of him, a fellow who never made over $1 million per season and played his butt of in the minors paying the price just to play in the NHL. Carkner thanked Murray and signed with the NYI, but they gave him a two-year deal, one that he signed, because here is a guy that really did need the money.

I have no respect for Alfie and they way he handled himself. He has screwed himself out of a management job in Ottawa and I'm sure others in the hockey world have taken notice of how he treated the Sens in all of this.

Alfie, I wish you nothing but the best of luck living in that crap hole called Detriot. if you don't own a gun, you just might want to buy one just in case since I hear they are a little gun happy there.

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08-15-2013, 08:44 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
[/B]
According to Murray, JP Barry has a different take.

Plus its Murray that brought up the blank cheque, not Alfie or Barry.
Right from the start, the moment it went over the radio that Alfie signed with Detroit I was saying this was JP's doing.

When Murray had his post FA interview about Alfie, he was very upfront that no negations took place, and that Berry wouldnt return his calls.
Today Alfie said the negotiations went nowhere, but considering Alfie was in Sweden and basically just gets updates from JP, Barry could have just ignored Murray and told Alfie they wernt working.

Here is how I think things went down

Sens indicate to Alfie that next contact he will get compensated for taking the discount.....
Murray asks for a number....
Barry says 7m for 1 year and 12m for 2 years....
Murray counters with 4.5m for 1 year ...
Barry shuts down talks, tells Alfie things are not going anywhere...
Murray and Eugene crap pants and try to offer anything to keep alfie...
JP ignores calls from Murray, tells Alfie Sens wont budge, and pushes him to go FA.

I have no doubt in my mind that when they felt things were slipping, that the Sens were ready to sell the farm to keep Alfie, and the only reason I can see for Alfie not returning, even with the Sens ready to drop any number to keep him, is that JP never took that to him or never took the call to start.

I dont know what to think about the disrespect and all, it seems bad on the Sens part, but Murray has been solid in keeping that Barry wouldnt return his calls.

I dont like JP Barry. From his Heatly deal, to Sundin and Emery. He makes teams pay, or screws them over.

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08-15-2013, 08:57 PM
  #70
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I'm a big fan of what Melnyk did for us, but at a certain point, if his financial situation will keep him from icing a competitive team, then perhaps an NHL team isn't a good business for him. Internal cap or not, there is no reason why both Ryan and Alfie shouldn't be on the team today. Alfie has taken pay cuts forever to keep the team competitive as we had big names on the team, and when they finally have money, instead of doing the right thing and compensating him, they play hardball (well, Melnyk).

Alfie was and always will be a bigger part of this franchises' history than Melnyk.

Enough money is generated through other events. Regardless though, a one year contract for Alfie wouldn't have been the end of the world. I don't blame Alfie one bit, and this internal budget crap is starting to annoy me.

Like I said, if you can't pay for a hockey team, find a buyer that can. Ottawa is still a strong market and will only get stronger.
You sir are bang on.

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Originally Posted by Orr123 View Post
IMO this looks more like whinning from Alfie's part.

I don't know the whole scoop, but when a player agreed to a contract, then played it out, sadly, he agreed to that money. He shouldn't be over-rewarded after the fact just because he played out a contract (that was less money than he deserved) that he agreed upon.

Its like saying I got a job, and I agreed to a lower salary for a year. Worked that year then flipped my **** when they wouldn't give me way more than I deserved the following year. Just looks bad on him IMO.

Either way, at this point I'm actually happy to have Alfie out, and the Sens can move on and focus on winning and moving forward, and not making a 41 year old happy.
Typical reaction of someone in denial. Players like Alfie are generational franchise players. You telling me that the Sens could not come up with 2m+ to keep Alfie around? They clearly wanted to rid themselves of 5-6 million off the cap, and now are playing the PR battle to blame Alfie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droc View Post
Right from the start, the moment it went over the radio that Alfie signed with Detroit I was saying this was JP's doing.

When Murray had his post FA interview about Alfie, he was very upfront that no negations took place, and that Berry wouldnt return his calls.
Today Alfie said the negotiations went nowhere, but considering Alfie was in Sweden and basically just gets updates from JP, Barry could have just ignored Murray and told Alfie they wernt working.

Here is how I think things went down

Sens indicate to Alfie that next contact he will get compensated for taking the discount.....
Murray asks for a number....
Barry says 7m for 1 year and 12m for 2 years....
Murray counters with 4.5m for 1 year ...
Barry shuts down talks, tells Alfie things are not going anywhere...
Murray and Eugene crap pants and try to offer anything to keep alfie...
JP ignores calls from Murray, tells Alfie Sens wont budge, and pushes him to go FA.

I have no doubt in my mind that when they felt things were slipping, that the Sens were ready to sell the farm to keep Alfie, and the only reason I can see for Alfie not returning, even with the Sens ready to drop any number to keep him, is that JP never took that to him or never took the call to start.

I dont know what to think about the disrespect and all, it seems bad on the Sens part, but Murray has been solid in keeping that Barry wouldnt return his calls.

I dont like JP Barry. From his Heatly deal, to Sundin and Emery. He makes teams pay, or screws them over.
Another scapegoat. Barry was doing his job and when you are an UFA you are holding the cards. You don't negotiate against yourself when other teams are willing to accommodate your value.

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08-15-2013, 09:02 PM
  #71
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So Alfie thought he wouldn't play the final year of the contract and so the team didn't think he would play the final year of the contract. Essentially they signed him to a 3 year 18 million dollar contract and asked him to throw an extra year to help out the team cap wise. After Alfie saw how well the sens had rebuilt, health wise he was good and that he wouldn't need to be as much of a focal point he figured he would stick around for a Mill. The team thought great.

Seems like at the beginning of the season the Sens were ready to move on from Alfie and it was Alfie who decided that he wanted to come back. The team was unsure how to proceed and thus didn't give him a contract because they knew they wanted to have more money come free agency. The Alfie decision threw a wrench into the program but the Sens tried to make it work for them. Seems like the Sens wanted Alfie to retire so they could use his cap space to improve the team and remain within their budget.

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08-15-2013, 09:09 PM
  #72
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That's pretty rude.
I can be rude sometimes.

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08-15-2013, 09:10 PM
  #73
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Yeah, both Alfie and Ryan should be Sens right now If Melnyk wasn't such a cheap **** these days.

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08-15-2013, 09:12 PM
  #74
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Yeah, both Alfie and Ryan should both be Sens right now If Melnyk wasn't such a cheap **** these days.
I am sorry that melnyk is cheap, but money does not grow on trees you know. Its unfortunate that we have to have an internal budget. We just have to live with it. Getting a new owner might not be the solution either.

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08-15-2013, 09:14 PM
  #75
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What I don't understand is this arguement that somehow the team "owed" Alfie for playing out his contract for $1M last season...they didn't force him to add that year in...in fact did he not say himself that both parties expected he wouldn't play that year?

Alfie's a big boy...he got advice from his agent during his last negotiation that the impact of the extra year was negligible to Alfie since he wouldn't be playing it. Alfie decided to play it. Ottawa shouldn't be expected to compensate him for playing last year.

Had JP came back to BM and said, Detroit will give him $5.5M next year will you match it - BM would have said yes...contract complete. The fact of the matter is Alfie made the decision to move on - he's been given advice from his agent to maximizes his last contract and he did so. Too bad the team wasn't given the opportunity to match the offer.

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