HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

How much damage has the Alfredsson fiasco done to the Sens reputation?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-16-2013, 08:35 PM
  #101
Ed Wood
Registered User
 
Ed Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Ever22 View Post
Does anyone get the feel that it actually is j.p. barrys fault? He probably hates eugene melnyk and he wanted to screw him over. So he just told alfie to go sign somewhere else. We can all say goodbye to curtis lazar in the future being that j.p. barry is his agent as well.
I don't think I'm going to assume that Curtis Lazar has no mind of his own.

Ed Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2013, 08:37 PM
  #102
Senators65
Registered User
 
Senators65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,452
vCash: 5640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
I get the feeling JP wasn't being quite as professional as he should've been. But, ultimately, it was Alfredsson's decision. I get the fact he made some team-friendly deals in the past - but it was his choice. It's not exactly a 'sacrifice for the team' if you expect to get the money back on a generous retirement contract, ya know?

Not worried about Lazar, or any other of JP's clients. In reality, the only guys who can really screw the team over are the stars (love what I hear so far from Lazar, but the chances of him being a first line 90-point star are slim). It would hurt to eventually lose him, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Besides, dirty dealings or hardball tactics for a young player won't exactly help his own reputation around the league, either.


But, either way, it's not fun watching our team go through this mudslinging. Murray worked so damned hard the last 6-10 years building this team and making us a classy organization that's known for treating players right and doing right by them (Bishop, Fisher come to mind). It's a shame to see that hard work get sullied like this.
I just hope this whole ordeal blows over quickly. This whole thing with alfie and melnyks financial situation is really turning this offseason into a horrible one for the sens.


Last edited by Senators65: 08-16-2013 at 08:46 PM.
Senators65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2013, 08:54 PM
  #103
Leachman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,257
vCash: 500
Bloggers spouting off about team finances repeatedly doesn't give the spouting any validity.

Media is as media does. Just because there is tons of tripe out there doesn't make it any tastier.

Leachman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2013, 09:42 PM
  #104
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
 
Nac Mac Feegle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,417
vCash: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leachman View Post
Bloggers spouting off about team finances repeatedly doesn't give the spouting any validity.

Media is as media does. Just because there is tons of tripe out there doesn't make it any tastier.
Well said.

Nac Mac Feegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2013, 10:29 PM
  #105
Ron Jeremy
Registered User
 
Ron Jeremy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,338
vCash: 500
This was hardly a fiasco. It was a greedy, me first player leaving over money. Paying him $7mil would have just been dumb. It would have prevented the team from getting better. Him asking for it was just as dumb. If he truly loved the team, he would have taken $5mil and allowed them to bring in McArthur and/or Ryan. He's 40 and declining. Not worth $7mil. It was a selfish move by an otherwise classy player and he has burnt his legacy. There I said it.

Ron Jeremy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2013, 10:55 PM
  #106
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,801
vCash: 500
Imagine the other players on the team thinking that the team welshed on a gentleman's agreement to Alfie of all people over a relatively small amount of money.

Melnyk may be celebrating the savings of $2-3M on this deal, but may wind up getting the cold shoulder and a much less cooperative attitude from some of the stars on the team. They saved $2-3M now, but will probably lose a heck of a lot more in the future when players like Spezza, Karlsson, etc come up for negotiations and would rather give Melnyk an elbow deep enema rather than sacrifice anything for this organization.

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2013, 11:43 PM
  #107
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Blue Jays!
 
UsernameWasTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,537
vCash: 500
was lurking on your board and just thought i'd post and say, from an outsider's perspective, i don't think your team looks particularly bad in all of this. as far as attracting free agents, i'd think that if anything that the addition of ryan would help more than the alfredsson fiasco would hurt.

you're a more competitive team now than you were a month and a half ago.

honestly, i don't think you look all that bad...and as far as the "cap circumvention" issue, a bunch of other teams did exactly the same thing in a fairly transparent way...ha ha ha...the hawks gave hossa a 12(!) year contract starting at 30 where the final 4 years have an actual salary of $1m...so what you did is nbd given other contracts handed out.

UsernameWasTaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 12:37 AM
  #108
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Imagine the other players on the team thinking that the team welshed on a gentleman's agreement to Alfie of all people over a relatively small amount of money.

Melnyk may be celebrating the savings of $2-3M on this deal, but may wind up getting the cold shoulder and a much less cooperative attitude from some of the stars on the team. They saved $2-3M now, but will probably lose a heck of a lot more in the future when players like Spezza, Karlsson, etc come up for negotiations and would rather give Melnyk an elbow deep enema rather than sacrifice anything for this organization.
For me what's worse is that Melnyk (and even Murray sadly) keep responding. They know they are wrong, while Barry and Alfie seem to have just moved on.

Even if the final year was the result of a front-loaded contract, Alfie made a decision to come back and play one more year and the Sens took the year as a freebie. It won't look bad because people will assume Alfie wanted too much money, but in reality it was a very fair request.

HavlatMach9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 05:14 AM
  #109
Caseus
squirrelly wrath
 
Caseus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,224
vCash: 500
Any perceived damage to the Sens reputation will disappear when we start winning games.

With a healthy team we have a Norris defenseman, an elite first line center, an elite first line winger for the first time in years, an underrated top 10 goaltender, a Jack Adams coach and a metric ass-ton of potential.

By December all people are going to be saying is how dangerous the Sens are.

Caseus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 06:05 AM
  #110
Flamingo
Registered User
 
Flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,456
vCash: 500
The financial uncertainty will hopefully be removed with a couple of good seasons. The debt financing hitches sound like the team's biggest problem. Get over that, and there's no reason to malign the team's integrity.

Not re-upping Alfie while he played out the cap-softening retirement year of his contract does sound a bit cheap, and I'm sure that a lockout-shortened season on a pro-rated $1 mil was frustrating for Alfie. But the stigma of nickel-and-diming players and negotiating in bad faith will go away once the team is back in the black.

Unfortunately, this has become part of the theatre of this pro hockey team for now.

Flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 06:42 AM
  #111
The Fuhr*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Imagine the other players on the team thinking that the team welshed on a gentleman's agreement to Alfie of all people over a relatively small amount of money.

Melnyk may be celebrating the savings of $2-3M on this deal, but may wind up getting the cold shoulder and a much less cooperative attitude from some of the stars on the team. They saved $2-3M now, but will probably lose a heck of a lot more in the future when players like Spezza, Karlsson, etc come up for negotiations and would rather give Melnyk an elbow deep enema rather than sacrifice anything for this organization.
I agree completely... I'm interested to see how Greening and Michalek do on contracts this year... Big test will be Spezza and Ruan next summer.

I can totally see Spezza and Ryan demanding cap hits around 8.5

The Fuhr* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 10:02 AM
  #112
leaffansince1961
Registered User
 
leaffansince1961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 178
vCash: 500
The post is about how this may hurt the Sens reputation.

Please don't even go with "Leaf fan dissing Sen's".......This is not an emotional response, I just want to discuss the topic.

From the Toronto experiences with Vince Carter and Sundin.
Carter - exceptionally bad because of the way that he did it (not professional at all which made it very hard to move him). I don't think our reputation has recovered yet.
Sundin - loved him but would have like him to accept the trade to help the Leafs out. This hurt for awhile but hopefully we're over it and players are starting to come back. I think the team went public to trigger the bad PR.
Alfie - (who I boo all the time) was professional about it but may have triggered the bad PR.

With respect to Alfie, we have:
1) A Captain and veteran of 17 years and played for under market value
2) asks to be compensated for the obviously cheap season
3) the team counters with an offer that is $1M bellow market value
4) the team doesn't let it go quietly but lashes out publicly...whether it's directly to Alfie or not doesn't matter...it's bad PR that nobody wants to get involved in

How do you think other players will view this situation and do you think they will want to come to Ottawa?

leaffansince1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 10:09 AM
  #113
Chip Chipperson
Registered User
 
Chip Chipperson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ted's Emporium
Country: Belize
Posts: 1,808
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaffansince1961 View Post
How do you think other players will view this situation and do you think they will want to come to Ottawa?
Other players wont give a single **** and will go where the money is just like Alfredsson. No player will think "Gee the Sens are offering me more money and better terms but I will sign with someone else because of the way it ended with Alfredsson."

Chip Chipperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 10:28 AM
  #114
tony d
The franchise
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,303
vCash: 500
Not at all. I think it's time we all move past this and concentrate on the players we have now.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 10:41 AM
  #115
QuietOnTheFront
@QuietOnTheFront
 
QuietOnTheFront's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,519
vCash: 500
My biggest concern in this whole mess is how much of it is creating a looming distraction for the team going into this year? It's beginning to turn into something more than it should have been. I sometimes wonder how much better of a team would we be if we didn't have Eugene as our owner? As much as he is passionate about his team, he is frequently prone to bonehead off the cuff comments that completely disintegrate his credibility. I'd love a quiet owner who just does his part by allowing the team to be a contender.

It should be interesting to see how we come out of the gate. I'm hoping this sideshow isn't going to hamper the strong club we have going into this season.

QuietOnTheFront is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #116
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaffansince1961 View Post
The post is about how this may hurt the Sens reputation.

Please don't even go with "Leaf fan dissing Sen's".......This is not an emotional response, I just want to discuss the topic.

From the Toronto experiences with Vince Carter and Sundin.
Carter - exceptionally bad because of the way that he did it (not professional at all which made it very hard to move him). I don't think our reputation has recovered yet.
Sundin - loved him but would have like him to accept the trade to help the Leafs out. This hurt for awhile but hopefully we're over it and players are starting to come back. I think the team went public to trigger the bad PR.
Alfie - (who I boo all the time) was professional about it but may have triggered the bad PR.

With respect to Alfie, we have:
1) A Captain and veteran of 17 years and played for under market value
2) asks to be compensated for the obviously cheap season
3) the team counters with an offer that is $1M bellow market value
4) the team doesn't let it go quietly but lashes out publicly...whether it's directly to Alfie or not doesn't matter...it's bad PR that nobody wants to get involved in

How do you think other players will view this situation and do you think they will want to come to Ottawa?
Before the Jets came back I followed the Sens and I thought I'd weigh in. I really am having a hard time understanding why the Sens are taking a beating for not giving in to his ridiculous demands about being compensated for that one cheap year. Its like people forgot that the Sens did him a favor first by buying out those cheap team option years and then giving him a contract that paid him 7 million in cash the first two years instead of the much lower amount had the Sens exercised those options. They also gave him in essence a free $2.1 million due to the buy out. I think the Sens have done right by Alfie over the years and they really don't deserve this cheap label that's been thrown about lately.

surixon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:22 AM
  #117
Liliaceae
Sens ♥
 
Liliaceae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Imagine the other players on the team thinking that the team welshed on a gentleman's agreement to Alfie of all people over a relatively small amount of money.

Melnyk may be celebrating the savings of $2-3M on this deal, but may wind up getting the cold shoulder and a much less cooperative attitude from some of the stars on the team. They saved $2-3M now, but will probably lose a heck of a lot more in the future when players like Spezza, Karlsson, etc come up for negotiations and would rather give Melnyk an elbow deep enema rather than sacrifice anything for this organization.
They're not 41 and declining. They're worth 7+.

Liliaceae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #118
Chip Chipperson
Registered User
 
Chip Chipperson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ted's Emporium
Country: Belize
Posts: 1,808
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Before the Jets came back I followed the Sens and I thought I'd weigh in. I really am having a hard time understanding why the Sens are taking a beating for not giving in to his ridiculous demands about being compensated for that one cheap year. Its like people forgot that the Sens did him a favor first by buying out those cheap team option years and then giving him a contract that paid him 7 million in cash the first two years instead of the much lower amount had the Sens exercised those options. They also gave him in essence a free $2.1 million due to the buy out. I think the Sens have done right by Alfie over the years and they really don't deserve this cheap label that's been thrown about lately.
Someone that gets it. Agreed 100%.


Chip Chipperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:26 AM
  #119
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Its like people forgot that the Sens did him a favor first by buying out those cheap team option years and then giving him a contract that paid him 7 million in cash the first two years instead of the much lower amount had the Sens exercised those options.
For a significant amount of time before that, he got a lot less than his real value due to the rollback. He was a casualty of that lockout. The buyout was meant to acknowledge that and get a cheaper caphit. The Sens knew he would retire in the final year, so did Alfie, that was not a year that was intended for Alfie to play cheaply due to a front loaded contract. Even if it was, it's not the way to treat Alfie.

HavlatMach9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #120
Senators65
Registered User
 
Senators65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,452
vCash: 5640
All this really shows is that the sens organization is not willing to pay a 41 year old 7 million dollars. I find that reasonable to be honest. If you can, show me a player that is 41 or older that has received a 7 million dollar contract?

Senators65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:36 AM
  #121
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Ever22 View Post
All this really shows is that the sens organization is not willing to pay a 41 year old 7 million dollars. I find that reasonable to be honest. If you can, show me a player that is 41 or older that has received a 7 million dollar contract?
Remember in Alfie's eyes, he asked for 4m a season due to 1m cheap year, (7+1)/2=4m a year. I'm surprised that just a few weeks before UFA, the Sens best offer was 4.5m, or (4.5+1)/2=2.75m a year. 2.75m for two years was the Sens absolute best offer to Alfie.

The Sens did a good job making people believe that Alfie wanted 7m, when he just wanted his 4m.

HavlatMach9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:38 AM
  #122
Senators65
Registered User
 
Senators65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,452
vCash: 5640
I cannot wait until the season starts so we could all put this fiasco behind us.


Last edited by Senators65: 08-17-2013 at 11:52 AM.
Senators65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 11:52 AM
  #123
bert
Registered User
 
bert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,386
vCash: 500
I just want everyone to shut up about it, nothing is going to change where Alfie is playing next season. Just focus on the team moving forward, getting better and making a push for the division.

bert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 12:25 PM
  #124
Ice-Tray
Registered User
 
Ice-Tray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
For a significant amount of time before that, he got a lot less than his real value due to the rollback. He was a casualty of that lockout. The buyout was meant to acknowledge that and get a cheaper caphit. The Sens knew he would retire in the final year, so did Alfie, that was not a year that was intended for Alfie to play cheaply due to a front loaded contract. Even if it was, it's not the way to treat Alfie.
This is SO WEAK!

This has nothing to do with the Sens, nor was Alfie the only player to have a roll back, AND most importantly, they are the ones who agreed eventually to impose it on themselves. And you want to turn around and make that something the Ottawa Senators DID to alfie.... Come on dude, nice try...

The buy out was not at all meant to acknowledge that he had accepted an agreed upon roll back, the buy out was done as a courtesy to him, and an acknowledgement that he was worth more than the team options years. It was a generous and respectful thing that the team did, and somehow you've spun it into something they did because they owed Alfredsson because he agreed along with the rest of the players to a self imposed roll back... Twisted logic to weakly try and support your opinion.... Try again

Ice-Tray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 12:37 PM
  #125
Ice-Tray
Registered User
 
Ice-Tray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Remember in Alfie's eyes, he asked for 4m a season due to 1m cheap year, (7+1)/2=4m a year. I'm surprised that just a few weeks before UFA, the Sens best offer was 4.5m, or (4.5+1)/2=2.75m a year. 2.75m for two years was the Sens absolute best offer to Alfie.

The Sens did a good job making people believe that Alfie wanted 7m, when he just wanted his 4m.
All that mathing for nothing. This is a silly argument that doesn't exist in the real world.

No dude, that's not how it works. You can't magically move half of his yearly salary to the previous year. There was "disputed" talk of some form of compensation, and you've all of a sudden rendered it fact and removed half of this years salary request.

1) Murray denied that there was any such agreement (this right here should have stopped you from assuming it was fact given that it's a "he say she say" situation with no verifiable proof)

2) We don't have 7 million to spend on a single player of Alfredsson's calibre at this point due to internal financing. Just because you've moved half the cash to last year doesn't remove the fact that it's paid THIS year. (Are you sure you'd rather handcuff the team with that albatross rather than have Ryan and Mac?)

3) Alfredsson didn't intend to play the last year when he signed the contract, nor did the team expect it, so when he decides to actually change his mind and play out the contract he signed instead, all of a sudden the team owes him more money? (Does this happen anywhere in the real world??)

The Senators were happy to negotiate a fair contract for Alfie for this year, but it's ridiculous to think that they would do that AND pay for last year as well.

Let the man go, he's a hockey payer, and was a good citizen. He chose to go elsewhere for more money as players usually do. I for one am glad that management doesn't get all caught up in having to offer contracts based on the current year and compensation for previous years.... Imagine how messy that could be?

Ice-Tray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.