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Leafs staying patient in Kadri and Franson contract negotiations

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Old
08-16-2013, 08:14 AM
  #51
Gobias Industries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Being perhaps 1 million short of signing the two players you have left to sign with and month and a half left to go in the summer isn't a terribly screwed up cap situation.
It all depends on the players, and when it's your best centre and leading scoring defenceman it's not good.

The RFA situation makes it better, but there's no doubt it's screwed up. I mean what teams are more in a worse cap position at this point?

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08-16-2013, 08:14 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
fraser wont make it to the minors, he has to clear waivers. he will get picked up by some team
if fraser got picked up by another team would we still be on the hook for his salary? if not then that is definitely the way to go. i would be pretty fine with going into next season with

phaneuf-gunnarson
gardiner-franson
ranger-liles

the extra $1.2 million + if we send one guy down and went with a 22 man roster would give us ~$7 million to sign kari/franson.




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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
This is the case with every RFA, yet they still get paid.



I don't get what you mean.
i think he means that just because you have a lot of cap space doesnt mean you should give out bloated contracts just to get everyone signed.

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08-16-2013, 08:16 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
It all depends on the players, and when it's your best centre and leading scoring defenceman it's not good.

The RFA situation makes it better, but there's no doubt it's screwed up. I mean what teams are more in a worse cap position at this point?
There are five teams that are over the cap right now.

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08-16-2013, 08:28 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
There are five teams that are over the cap right now.
By an amount probably less than the Leafs would be without a move, if they're looking to sign Kadri and Franson.

I'm pretty sure Savard/Pronger are affecting the Bruins/Flyers, the Kings amount is insignificant.

The Sharks and Penguins, sure, but the Sharks is less than 400k over and the Penguins could drop a player easily (likely Niskanen).

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08-16-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post



I don't get what you mean.
Even if the Leafs had 20 million in cap space left, in all likelyhood, Franson and Kadri would still be unsigned. Bottom line is the Leafs feel these guys are worth X and they aren't going to pay Y just because they can or because that's what the players want. People are confusing cap space with the Leafs willingness to pay what Franson and Kadri are asking.

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08-16-2013, 08:36 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
By an amount probably less than the Leafs would be without a move, if they're looking to sign Kadri and Franson.

I'm pretty sure Savard/Pronger are affecting the Bruins/Flyers, the Kings amount is insignificant.

The Sharks and Penguins, sure, but the Sharks is less than 400k over and the Penguins could drop a player easily (likely Niskanen).
Savard and Pronger were hurt years ago. It's not something that's just popped up out of nowhere that they couldn't account for and we have to excuse them for.

It's just not even bad. There are reasonable and do-able solutions to our "problem" that HF posters have come up with themselves. I'm sure Nonis, with another month and half of dealing with this as his full-time job, can find 1 or 2 million in cap space or deal some players for reasonable returns. The hysteria around here over this is ridiculous.

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08-16-2013, 08:36 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
Even if the Leafs had 20 million in cap space left, in all likelyhood, Franson and Kadri would still be unsigned. Bottom line is the Leafs feel these guys are worth X and they aren't going to pay Y just because they can or because that's what the players want. People are confusing cap space with the Leafs willingness to pay what Franson and Kadri are asking.
Given Kadri and Franson's play last year, it's realistic to expect that cap-space and differences in deserved pay are both issues.

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08-16-2013, 08:42 AM
  #58
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I think Franson will get a larger contract than Kadri at his point...

I would be surprised if we sign Franson to a 2 year 3.4-3.6 million, or a 3 year, 3.8-4 million.

and Kadri to a two year 2.9-3.2 contract, or a 3 year 3.6-4 mil contract.

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08-16-2013, 08:49 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakes View Post
Even if the Leafs had 20 million in cap space left, in all likelyhood, Franson and Kadri would still be unsigned. Bottom line is the Leafs feel these guys are worth X and they aren't going to pay Y just because they can or because that's what the players want. People are confusing cap space with the Leafs willingness to pay what Franson and Kadri are asking.
4.5m does not get you both players. That's the reality, Liles needs to go.

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08-16-2013, 08:56 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
This is exactly the kind of contract the leafs should be keeping away from. Even Kadri but at 3 million that's acceptable. We don't need to handcuff our selves with contracts with players who have proven very little in terms of deserving that kind of money, lets face it Cody is not a 4 million dollar defenseman at this point and time.
How'd you feel about the rest of the contracts we gave out this summer?

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08-16-2013, 08:58 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
4.5m does not get you both players. That's the reality, Liles needs to go.
We have 4.9 in space at the moment, which includes Trevor Smith and Holzer. Neither of those guys are going to make the team, which frees up another 1.34 million, brining us to 6.24 million in space to sign both Kadri and Franson which would bring us to 12 forwards and 7 defencemen.

That's pretty tight, but might be do-able.

If we can make it happen like that without trading Liles, it's interesting to note that there is really no way to fit Rielly's ELC contract into the lineup, because his cap hit would be 1.7, which is more than any of the guys he would replace.

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08-16-2013, 09:03 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
We have 4.9 in space at the moment, which includes Trevor Smith and Holzer. Neither of those guys are going to make the team, which frees up another 1.34 million, brining us to 6.24 million in space to sign both Kadri and Franson which would bring us to 12 forwards and 7 defencemen.

That's pretty tight, but might be do-able.
Very tight but I think just a little shy of what they need to get it done.

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08-16-2013, 09:21 AM
  #63
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I think Kadri may still be willing to take a "bridge" deal for 1 year. This is no different than what happened with Subban last year. As long as Kadri, his agent and Nonis have a good working relationship, i can see a $2.75m on a 1 year deal, followed by an 8 year ~$5.0m/year deal if Kadri lights it up as our 1st line center this year.

Franson AAV needs to get in under $3 million and then we either delay that signing until late into October or play with a 22 man roster for the 1st few months.

Eitherway i think we are going to be just fine with some creative thinking and goodwill on the part of Kadri/Franson. If the guys really want to be here longterm, i think there is no reason why they can't put some trust into Nonis and the future.

Worst case, we let Franson go for picks/prospects and fight our battles elsewhere. A 1st rounder and a decent prospect is quite reasonable, if you ask me. Love Franson but if he plays hardball, Nonis may be forced into a move.

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08-16-2013, 09:21 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Savard and Pronger were hurt years ago. It's not something that's just popped up out of nowhere that they couldn't account for and we have to excuse them for.

It's just not even bad. There are reasonable and do-able solutions to our "problem" that HF posters have come up with themselves. I'm sure Nonis, with another month and half of dealing with this as his full-time job, can find 1 or 2 million in cap space or deal some players for reasonable returns. The hysteria around here over this is ridiculous.
No, I'm saying their cap space is likely over because Savard and Pronger are being counted despite their LTIR status.

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08-16-2013, 09:24 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
We have 4.9 in space at the moment, which includes Trevor Smith and Holzer. Neither of those guys are going to make the team, which frees up another 1.34 million, brining us to 6.24 million in space to sign both Kadri and Franson which would bring us to 12 forwards and 7 defencemen.

That's pretty tight, but might be do-able.

If we can make it happen like that without trading Liles, it's interesting to note that there is really no way to fit Rielly's ELC contract into the lineup, because his cap hit would be 1.7, which is more than any of the guys he would replace.
Good point on Rielly!

I think ideally, Nonis needs to showcase Liles for the first 25-30 games and provided he plays Top 4 minutes, a trade to a struggling team or to replace a long-term injury should be quite doable.

That would eleviate our cap issues and allow us to bring Rielly in sometime around Christmas as a 7th dman if we wanted!

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08-16-2013, 09:35 AM
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I suspect we will sign Franson first and then give Kadri whatever is left over for one year and then sort him next year.

Everyone seems pretty cavalier about trading Franson but isn't he our only right handed shot on the back end ? He's also huge even if not overly physical.

If those two guys really want to be here, they can make 5 Mil work between them for one year.

Does anyone else think Gunnarson is making about 1 Mil to much ?

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08-16-2013, 09:40 AM
  #67
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That would eleviate our cap issues and allow us to bring Rielly in sometime around Christmas as a 7th dman if we wanted!
Actually, not really. We can't start him in the AHL, and if he goes back to junior we aren't able to call him back up except for a short-term emergency situation.

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08-16-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
I suspect we will sign Franson first and then give Kadri whatever is left over for one year and then sort him next year.

Everyone seems pretty cavalier about trading Franson but isn't he our only right handed shot on the back end ? He's also huge even if not overly physical.

If those two guys really want to be here, they can make 5 Mil work between them for one year.

Does anyone else think Gunnarson is making about 1 Mil to much ?
No and no.

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08-16-2013, 09:45 AM
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Really hope if they go for a bridge contract its longer than one year. Next year we have Kessel, Dion, McClemment, Bolland, Kulemin, and Gardiner (RFA). Here's hoping the cap jumps significantly higher.

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08-16-2013, 09:51 AM
  #70
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Does anyone else think Gunnarson is making about 1 Mil to much ?
Gunnarsson is used as top pairing defender, used in big minutes and most often Phaneuf's partner used to shutdown the NHL's best opponents.

If anything Nonis is using Gunnarsson's value to try and keep Franson's contract in check as Cody is most often a 3rd pairing defender with PP time.

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08-16-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Given Kadri and Franson's play last year, it's realistic to expect that cap-space and differences in deserved pay are both issues.
Just because Kadri and Franson think that one good (half) year means that they should get gigantic raises, doesn't mean everyone else does. While the cap may be an "issue" now, it wasn't always. Remember, there have been signings all throughout the summer when the Leafs had upwards of 20 million dollars free. It's just whittled away to where we stand now. They could have signed at any point up till now but chose not to and it wasn't because of the Leafs cap situation; they were and are asking for too much.

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08-16-2013, 10:38 AM
  #72
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Really hope if they go for a bridge contract its longer than one year. Next year we have Kessel, Dion, McClemment, Bolland, Kulemin, and Gardiner (RFA). Here's hoping the cap jumps significantly higher.
I would certainly enjoy if we somehow managed to get both to 2-year deals.

But at the same time thats riskier for us w.r.t Kadri as there's a very real possibility after his 2-year deal we'd be looking at a cap hit of 6M or higher. With Franson I think we know what we're getting and that even after completion of a 2-year bridge deal he wouldn't be anywhere near a 6M dman (IMO).

I think if they can lock Kadri up for 4years and Franson for 2; that'll minimize the risk w.r.t Kadri and eliminate some of the question marks around cap-structure going forward when it comes to resigning Kessel, Phaneuf, Kulie, McClemment.

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08-16-2013, 10:56 AM
  #73
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Nonis and company kind of screwed up our cap situation chasing dreams. Two lovely fantasy contracts with Bozak and Clarkson, the Bernier unexpected payment and rental player in Bolland tied our hands nice. They were in a rush to do what they did and got nothing for players who may have had an off year. If this team doesn't perform exceptionally it will beat me down worse then the game 7 loss.

I don't see a better team, if so, it's marginal and a bigger concern, Kulemin will walk or be traded because those contracts.
Maybe you just wouldn't know a well put together hockey team when you see.

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08-16-2013, 10:59 AM
  #74
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Maybe you just wouldn't know a well put together hockey team when you see.
LOL. Exactly. I'm GLAD we now have the Clarkson, Bolland, Bernier, Bozak, Gunnarsson contracts!! One or two is a little high, but we have a much better team to send out there because of it!! Soon enough, we'll sort out the Kadri & Franson contracts and we're off to the races.

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08-16-2013, 11:01 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Savard and Pronger were hurt years ago. It's not something that's just popped up out of nowhere that they couldn't account for and we have to excuse them for.

It's just not even bad. There are reasonable and do-able solutions to our "problem" that HF posters have come up with themselves. I'm sure Nonis, with another month and half of dealing with this as his full-time job, can find 1 or 2 million in cap space or deal some players for reasonable returns. The hysteria around here over this is ridiculous.
Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous.

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