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What ever happened to grandfathering?

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Old
07-07-2005, 09:28 AM
  #51
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What happened to grandfathering?

It's still where it always was; existing only in the fertile imaginations of the big budget team fans.

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07-07-2005, 09:30 AM
  #52
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Bruins will be letting lots of players walk in a couple years.

With Jacobs record on UFA's, they better make hay in the next couple seasons.

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07-07-2005, 11:40 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
What happened to grandfathering?

It's still where it always was; existing only in the fertile imaginations of the big budget team fans.
Like Brian Burke? He was the first guy I heard suggest grandfathering.

You seem to have a bit of an axe to grind with fans of big budget teams. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but it seems you are attacking them in almost every post.

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07-08-2005, 01:10 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
What happened to grandfathering?

It's still where it always was; existing only in the fertile imaginations of the big budget team fans.
What is this in todays Toronto Star paper ?

Quote:
Another aspect of the deal is a provision that will allow teams to start the season with a payroll over the salary cap if they can't get it down in time. This would allow teams to make the necessary roster changes as the season progresses.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...acodalogin=yes

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07-08-2005, 01:18 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
What is this in todays Toronto Star paper ?
Ah, but that sounds a heck of a lot like "Time Limited Grandmothering" so that doesn't count.

Another aspect of the deal is a provision that will allow teams to start the season with a payroll over the salary cap if they can't get it down in time. This would allow teams to make the necessary roster changes as the season progresses.

There's also expected to be a provision where the salary of a player called up to replace a player on injured reserve will not count against the cap unless the replacement player's salary is higher.

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07-08-2005, 01:31 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Ah, but that sounds a heck of a lot like "Time Limited Grandmothering" so that doesn't count.
.

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07-08-2005, 01:42 PM
  #57
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Buy-out issues.

I don't know if they can stop teams from buying out and re-signing players.

If the players is bought out, and then is not offered a contract from any other team, would that player not have a legal right to try and obtain employment from his previous team?

I could see something like the rules in the NBA IIRC, whereas a player cannot negotiate with his old team for a certain period of time.

So if Dallas bought out Guerin, for 2/3/4 weeks he cannot negotiate with them, and this provides all the other teams an opportunity to try and sign the UFA player.

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07-10-2005, 03:50 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeIs
Well, whatever happened to the notion of easing in whatever deal is signed (if ever)?

I haven't heard anyone talking about that for so long. Was it a figment of our imagination (or mine)? Are we gonna hit hard from day one or do we still have a chance to ease in to this new CBA?

I gather there are only a few teams that may be affected by this idea anyway. What are your thoughts?
Having no grandfather rule is going to seriously mess things up, but then again, we are under the Bettman regieme, arguebaly the worst regieme in any sport. The guy makes bad decision after bad decision. Whats another bad decision to him, he doesn't give a *****!

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07-10-2005, 09:37 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_TheGreat
Having no grandfather rule is going to seriously mess things up, but then again, we are under the Bettman regieme, arguebaly the worst regieme in any sport. The guy makes bad decision after bad decision. Whats another bad decision to him, he doesn't give a *****!
I don't really think they need grandfathering.

Some teams are going to struggle, but some teams struggle every year.

For example, look at Ottawa, they have guite a good team right now, and they had embarrassingly bad teams and management not too long ago.

Good thing is some teams won't have to struggle to pay the cap, and other teams will be forced to live off their owners billions, unable to pay their own freight.

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07-10-2005, 11:54 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I don't really think they need grandfathering.

Some teams are going to struggle, but some teams struggle every year.
. . .
I agree with you. I'm curious and excited to see how the Leafs will adjust to the new cap world. I wonder what salaries free agents will be able to command, considering the current glut on the market and the new economics. Perhaps we will be surprised by what we can or can't afford.

If we have a team featuring several youngsters and they finish in the middle of the pack, or even fail to make the playoffs, I will still enjoy the season a lot.

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07-10-2005, 12:22 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
I agree with you. I'm curious and excited to see how the Leafs will adjust to the new cap world. I wonder what salaries free agents will be able to command, considering the current glut on the market and the new economics. Perhaps we will be surprised by what we can or can't afford.

If we have a team featuring several youngsters and they finish in the middle of the pack, or even fail to make the playoffs, I will still enjoy the season a lot.
The magic that surrounds the Leafs is something that non-leaf fans can't really appreciate .. If we were fans of some small market non-traditional hockey team you never know what kind of UFA you can attract or how much your team can spend ..

In Toronto so many other factors ** OUTSIDE THE BOX ** can make UFA into Leafs, that truly anything is possible when $$$ is not the only driving force.

I can't wait to see how this unfolds and the outrage from others that it may cause.

Playing the kids to supplement the Stars is a great plan in fact and the more ice time now the better player you may have in the future ..

I am hoping for at leasta 6-pack in that regard from .. Matty, Carlo, Alex, Kyle, Colin, Roman and Telly.

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07-10-2005, 01:45 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I don't really think they need grandfathering.

Some teams are going to struggle, but some teams struggle every year.

For example, look at Ottawa, they have guite a good team right now, and they had embarrassingly bad teams and management not too long ago.

Good thing is some teams won't have to struggle to pay the cap, and other teams will be forced to live off their owners billions, unable to pay their own freight.
Interesting points, I guess there is just Pro's and Con's to both sides.

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07-10-2005, 03:34 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
. . .
Playing the kids to supplement the Stars is a great plan in fact and the more ice time now the better player you may have in the future ..

I am hoping for at leasta 6-pack in that regard from .. Matty, Carlo, Alex, Kyle, Colin, Roman and Telly.
Exactly what (and who) I'm thinking.

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07-11-2005, 04:11 PM
  #64
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Agents want 2003 draftees to get grandfathering since the league is renegging on its' own rules.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=130198

Curran points out, however, if the NHL clubs' rights to their drafted players are grandfathered into the new CBA, then the players' rights, including financial, should be too as they opted into the 2003 draft with certain rights and expectations under the previous CBA.

"It's only fair that the players have equal opportunity to have their rights grandfathered in, even if it's only for a limited number of days, the opportunity should be there where it's equal," Curran said. "What's good for one should be good for the other.

"These kids opted into a draft with certain expectations. Why should these rights be taken away from them?"

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07-11-2005, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Agents want 2003 draftees to get grandfathering since the league is renegging on its' own rules.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=130198

Curran points out, however, if the NHL clubs' rights to their drafted players are grandfathered into the new CBA, then the players' rights, including financial, should be too as they opted into the 2003 draft with certain rights and expectations under the previous CBA.

"It's only fair that the players have equal opportunity to have their rights grandfathered in, even if it's only for a limited number of days, the opportunity should be there where it's equal," Curran said. "What's good for one should be good for the other.

"These kids opted into a draft with certain expectations. Why should these rights be taken away from them?"
We all have lost jobs or income due to circumstances that were beyond our control. Welcome to life.

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07-11-2005, 09:36 PM
  #66
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I think the league should (and will) allow the unsigned 2003 draftees to be signed under the old CBA terms for entry level contracts.

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07-11-2005, 09:36 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
We all have lost jobs or income due to circumstances that were beyond our control. Welcome to life.
I guess the good thing is some of these boys can just go to Europe and make more than what the NHL offers.

Most of us don't have that reality in life.

As far as I'm concerned they should do whatever they want, it is their life afterall, and hockey is hockey.

Good to hear, the NHL was listening, and apparently these best rookies will be about to make 4.5 million a year. Call it the Crosby Rule.


Last edited by ULF_55: 07-11-2005 at 10:36 PM.
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07-12-2005, 10:03 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I guess the good thing is some of these boys can just go to Europe and make more than what the NHL offers.
That, along with the buyouts, is one of the silliest assumptions floating around these boards.

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07-12-2005, 10:13 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
That, along with the buyouts, is one of the silliest assumptions floating around these boards.
Tell that to all the players that do not receive contract offers when the CBA returns .. Even if they have to play for peanuts in Europe that is still better then ZERO due to the new CBA ..

In fact Rich Curran player agent was on the Fan 590 yesterday and said at the last NHL work stoppage nearly 200 players that finished the previous season never returned to the NHL once the lockout ended and the 1/2 season occurred .. He expects that number to be equal or greater now due to this one ..

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07-12-2005, 10:30 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Tell that to all the players that do not receive contract offers when the CBA returns .. Even if they have to play for peanuts in Europe that is still better then ZERO due to the new CBA ..

In fact Rich Curran player agent was on the Fan 590 yesterday and said at the last NHL work stoppage nearly 200 players that finished the previous season never returned to the NHL once the lockout ended and the 1/2 season occurred .. He expects that number to be equal or greater now due to this one ..
Sure, but not the 2003 draftees which was the point of discussion.

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07-12-2005, 10:36 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Sure, but not the 2003 draftees which was the point of discussion.
While its true .. Carter and Richards do have Euro offers higher then the new CBA may allow same with Crosby .. However none are likely to take the path rather then play in the NHL ..

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07-12-2005, 11:39 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
While its true .. Carter and Richards do have Euro offers higher then the new CBA may allow same with Crosby .. However none are likely to take the path rather then play in the NHL ..
Someone should call the police.

All these poor team owners in Europe having a gun held to their heads while they offer millions of dollars to North American players to lure them to Europe.

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07-12-2005, 11:44 AM
  #73
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Pro-owners: Players are greedy selfish me first people. Owners have a right to make money.

Pro-owners: Rookies won't go to Europe for more money they want to play in the best league and the money is secondary.

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07-12-2005, 11:56 AM
  #74
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The money from Europe isn't there, the NHL is the only league where the rookies will get close to a million dollars without having proven that they deserve it.

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07-12-2005, 12:17 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
The money from Europe isn't there, the NHL is the only league where the rookies will get close to a million dollars without having proven that they deserve it.
We have to separate rookies from rookies.

First rounders are the only players who'll get max 850k in the NHL. Franchise rookies may get into the bonus situations, but that means not top rookies, but top players. Best rookie (Calder) in the league if outside the top 10 in the NHL categories will probably get a token bonus, talked about earlier by NHL.

Very few rookies should be offered the max, as most should be offered minimum NHL wage, but will likely be in the minors anyway. Take into account the tax situation.

Frolov from LA made half the gross salary in the RSL, but he said he took home the same amount.

The tax benefits for foreign players may not be as good, but it is easy to see where some players may just decide the hassle of a new country, new language, and litte chance of success in the NHL doesn't sway as much as the same money, that goes further at home.

Mind you they wouldn't have the pleasure of living in exotic places like Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Columbus or Minnesota!

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