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Brent Burns (SJS) to the Habs

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:23 PM
  #76
rgb63
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
you are saying that you have a better knowledge of Burns than his assistant coach with the Wild ?
And you're saying that his assistant coach actually said that Burns "lacked intelligence?"

Remember that Burns was drafted as a forward and THEN converted to D. Not the other way around.

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:31 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by rgb63 View Post
And you're saying that his assistant coach actually said that Burns "lacked intelligence?"

Remember that Burns was drafted as a forward and THEN converted to D. Not the other way around.
I don't know why no one has said "pics or it didn't happen."

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:33 PM
  #78
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Burns

Not a picture, but its annotated. Like third sentence in.

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ARSix View Post
Oh come on. Seriously, Sharks fans are often really reasonable on here but then there are always these comments that venture into insane. Really? Even if we're just talking a 20 game sample last season, which isn't useful in measuring ANYTHING, you can't honestly believe he was second to Crosby as a forward playing ES minutes.

Like... really? If given the choice between Burns and Datsyuk, Malkin, Zetterberg, Giroux, Stamkos, St Louis, etc etc etc... you're saying you'd take Burns on the ice for you?

Here's the deal.

1. Burns isn't overpaid when on defense (if he is it's by so little as to not be worth mentioning) because he is a legitimate - though not game-breaking - top pairing defenseman and sub-$6M for a top pairing defenseman is good value at this point.
2. Burns isn't overpaid when on Wing, so long as he keeps playing as he did last season. Note that his AAV is roughly the same as Blake Wheeler, a physical RW who's good for 25-30 goals. If you get that from Burns, you're getting value.
3. The thing from the Sharks' point of view is that they need a winger like that and they look to have found one without having to give up ANYTHING to get him. The 25-26 year olds filling in reliably on D last season made Burns expendable on the blue line, not because he isn't a noticeable improvement on them but because they need a winger like him more than a #2D.
4. The thing from other teams' point of view is, what are you trading for? If you're trading for Burns the #2D, you're probably going to overpay because to the Sharks he's not only that, he's also filling a F need for them. If you're trading for Burns the winger, how can you offer what the Sharks want value-wise, when you've only got ~20 games to go on as evidence of what he can do in that role? It's too big a risk.

Burns isn't a particularly good trade target right now IMO.

PS - on actual value from a Sharks perspective I'd start listening at Gallagher plus a first. Would likely need another piece on that. You have to put some stock in what BG did last year to hear this, but the difference in on-ice impact between him and Burns for me is more or less made up for by the extra cap room, the futures value, and the other pieces you'd be adding. That kind of package at least starts a discussion, imo, if you HAVE to have such a discussion.
You misread my post. I didn't say burns was the second best forward in the league. I'm just going of stats of 5 on 5 play. Although small sample size it is a FACT that burns was the second best forward at even strength. His points say so that is true. Take what you want from that. Spewing names like datsyuk Malkin doesn't make that facts not true. Of coarse you take those players over burns. You are missing my point. Although if burns can play at 90 percent the whole year of what he did over half of last season. Many people commenting on this will be singing. Different tune


Last edited by hockfan1991: 08-16-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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Old
08-16-2013, 04:44 PM
  #80
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I think Subban/Galy is too much... but something around MaxPac+ would work I think

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08-16-2013, 04:44 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Burns

Not a picture, but its annotated. Like third sentence in.
I'm assuming you're replying to me but you didn't actually provide any info and their is no quote from Mario Tremblay anywhere on Burns' wiki.

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08-16-2013, 04:49 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hockfan1991 View Post
You misread my post. I didn't say burns was the second best forward in the league. I'm just going of stats of 5 on 5 play. Although small sample size it is a FACT that burns was the second best forward at even strength. His points say so that is true. Take what you want from that. Spewing names like datsyuk Malkin doesn't make that facts not true. Of coarse you take those players over burns. You are missing my point. Although if burns can play at 90 percent the whole year of what he did over half of last season. Many people commenting on this will be singing. Different tune
In which case, Jannik Hansen was a top 10 scoring right winger in the NHL last year, and Andrew Ladd was about as good as Taylor Hall. Matt Cullen is an elite-level scoring forward, and Paul Bissonette was a more efficient scorer than Kris Letang. Oh, p.s., that Brendan Gallagher guy I mentioned was top 10 in scoring rate among all NHL players and finished over 20 spots ahead of Burns.

These stats are not particularly telling. At least give me 82 games worth of data. At least.

And no, if Burns plays 90% of how he did last year, exactly zero sane people will take him over Malkin, are you serious??

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:59 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Uh... Well first off, you start off by saying you think he's overpaid, which, as many Sharks' fans have said, is not true. Second off, you ask if the Sharks would be willing to part with him - they would not. And finally, you ask what it would take to move him - well let's see, he's not overpaid, they have no reason to move him, he's a critical piece to their team and one of the most versatile players in the league. He is absolutely one of San Jose's top players, and if you want a player that doesn't need to move, you have to pay up. If you aren't willing to, then move on instead of continuing to try to force a square peg into a round hole.

You know, it's hilarious how so many people don't understand the difference between the market value of a player and the value of a player to his team. The two are often markedly different, and yet it seems as though several people, yourself included, don't even acknowledge the latter as so much as even existing.

Let's put it this way - I'm a Stars' fan, and I would love to acquire Galchenyuk. In terms of pure value, something along the lines of Nichushkin + Eakin would be about equal to his market value. But to convince Montreal to move him, as he is a key piece moving forward and they have no reason to move him, we would have to pony up something like Benn or Seguin for Galchenyuk.

If you don't understand my point now, then prehaps you need to look at things through a different light - you know, from another team's perspective? I'd like to see if you'd keep your tune after doing so.
You know what I find bizarre? It's how people jump to conclusions so quickly. In the OP, I've inquired about what it would take to get Burns. I made no mentions about his availability, except for an assumption on my part that he might be available. 95% of the thread in this section are based on that, as you've probably noticed as a moderator on this forum. No more, no less.

The last I checked, it was permitted to have opinions on this forum and in mine, I feel like Burns is overpaid. Others will definitely feel different about it and that's perfectly fine. Careful though, no where did I even suggest that he is overrated. He's a good player and that's why I've inquired.

Where I have a problem is when people put intentions in people that are not there, like you did when you said that I "want one of San Jose's best players without giving up any of my own", which is clearly not the case. I have purposely refrained from naming players which I'd be willing to offer, and I didn't support or bash names that Habs' fans in this thread have brought forward.

Further in the thread, I've brushed off unrealistic comments stating that it would start with Subban and/or Galchenyuk or Pacioretty + Subban/Galchenyuk. If you find that to be realistic in hockey terms, it's your prerogative but it's certainly not in my definition.

Finally, far from trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, I've taken the comments in stride and accepted that Sharks' fans where thinking highly of Burns, as I assume you will have also read in this thread, right? To be clear, I've asked the question, received and accepted the answer, and shone light on ridiculous comparisons. Hope we're clear.

If you don't understand my point after those clarifications, I don't know what to tell you.

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post

Further in the thread, I've brushed off unrealistic comments stating that it would start with Subban and/or Galchenyuk or Pacioretty + Subban/Galchenyuk. If you find that to be realistic in hockey terms, it's your prerogative but it's certainly not in my definition.
I wouldn't say asking for Pacioretty for a signed long-term Burns is all that unrealistic...that is probably what it would take to get Burns.

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:12 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BigDmitriy View Post
I wouldn't say asking for Pacioretty for a signed long-term Burns is all that unrealistic...that is probably what it would take to get Burns.
And I think that it would be a fair request. The member however had put Pacioretty + Subban/Galchenyuk. That's where I drew the line to "ridiculous".

EDIT: I see that the member in question might be saying Pacioretty +, or Subban, or Galchenyuk. The first one, I can somewhat see depending on which side of the fence you're sitting. The other two are ridiculous.

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08-16-2013, 05:17 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
And I think that it would be a fair request. The member however had put Pacioretty + Subban/Galchenyuk. That's where I drew the line to "ridiculous".

EDIT: I see that the member in question might be saying Pacioretty +, or Subban, or Galchenyuk. The first one, I can somewhat see depending on which side of the fence you're sitting. The other two are ridiculous.
Ahh...ok, agreed. I think I would consider trading Couture for Pacioretty + Galchenyuk :-)

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08-16-2013, 05:17 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post


I certainly do understand the difference. I've simply asked to be realistic. I guess that's too much to ask from some...
Burns being moved is not realistic.... /thread

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:18 PM
  #88
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He was drafted as a forward and come this season there playing him as a forward

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:25 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
And I think that it would be a fair request. The member however had put Pacioretty + Subban/Galchenyuk. That's where I drew the line to "ridiculous".

EDIT: I see that the member in question might be saying Pacioretty +, or Subban, or Galchenyuk. The first one, I can somewhat see depending on which side of the fence you're sitting. The other two are ridiculous.
I'd keep Paccioretty over Burns

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Old
08-16-2013, 06:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark View Post
Bourque + 1st doesn't begin to scratch the surface. A package for Burns starts with Galchenyuk+ or Subban for Burns+.
LOL

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Old
08-16-2013, 06:24 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ARSix View Post
In which case, Jannik Hansen was a top 10 scoring right winger in the NHL last year, and Andrew Ladd was about as good as Taylor Hall. Matt Cullen is an elite-level scoring forward, and Paul Bissonette was a more efficient scorer than Kris Letang. Oh, p.s., that Brendan Gallagher guy I mentioned was top 10 in scoring rate among all NHL players and finished over 20 spots ahead of Burns.

These stats are not particularly telling. At least give me 82 games worth of data. At least.

And no, if Burns plays 90% of how he did last year, exactly zero sane people will take him over Malkin, are you serious??
Once again you misunderstand. Never once did I say anyone takes burns over Malkin. I said people will start changing there opinion on his value. He scored 20 PTS in 23 games as a forward. and majority were at even strength no one played on 5 on 5 at that rate. Small sample size as many people say he can't match that there is no reason to say he can't continue to improve a position he's played so little at nhl level.

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Old
08-16-2013, 06:40 PM
  #92
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Clearly no common ground can be found here. Move along.

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Old
08-16-2013, 07:02 PM
  #93
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Sharks aren't going to trade Burns, especially for the crap Canadiens fans want to get him for.

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Old
08-16-2013, 07:48 PM
  #94
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I like how Bourque is treated like garbage. He can play both wings, he brings size and has 50 pts upside. If you look at your depth on the wing, he'd be in your top 6.
Yeah we'll keep him then right?

I don't think San Jose fans will want to part with Burns at a reasonable price regardless of which fan base tries to get him.

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Old
08-16-2013, 08:04 PM
  #95
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Burns is worth a TON.

6'5 230lb powerforward in his prime who can switch to become your #1D when asked, players like him are few and far between.

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Old
08-16-2013, 08:06 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Burns is overpaid (in my opinion...)
Stopped reading there..
another "overpayed" player for scraps

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Old
08-16-2013, 08:55 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
Stopped reading there..
another "overpayed" player for scraps
You should have kept reading, you might have come to a different conclusion than what's in bold.

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Old
08-16-2013, 09:04 PM
  #98
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What good can you honestly expect coming from a thread where you have to try and convince yourself that a player you would like to fictionally trade for is overpaid? Come on dude.

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08-16-2013, 09:20 PM
  #99
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It would require Galchenyuk or Pacioretty going the other way for the Canadiens to acquire Burns.

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Old
08-16-2013, 09:22 PM
  #100
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Brent Burns is the coolest player in the league. His skillset is amazing.

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