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Forsberg vs Crosby

View Poll Results: Forsberg vs Crosby. Who was better?
Forsberg 78 40.21%
Crosby 116 59.79%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-21-2013, 01:21 PM
  #1
Wrigley
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Forsberg vs Crosby

Forsberg vs Crosby. Who was better? Poll coming.

Quote:
He (Forsberg) would leave the game with the fourth best assist-per-game percentage of all-time behind only the legendary Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr.
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=10490

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Old
08-21-2013, 01:40 PM
  #2
JFG
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Forsberg.

But I'm biased.

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08-21-2013, 02:05 PM
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Ishdul
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Do you mean prime vs prime, who you think will be better in the end or Crosby's 8 years vs. Forsberg's career? Because Crosby wins the first 2 handily while Forsberg would still have the career advantage.

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08-21-2013, 02:15 PM
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Big Phil
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Crosby wins this one. And to be honest, from a career standpoint he is hardly worse than Forsberg anyway.

But Crosby in his prime (right now) for sure over Forsberg's best season(s). It took until the last couple games of the year for Crosby to relinquish his scoring lead and he missed 25% of the season. Forsberg could never have done that, and never did do that. Crosby's two best playoff runs trump Forsberg's two best as well. His all around game is at least as good. He is more of a threat to score goals and his vision is better.

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08-21-2013, 02:36 PM
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Beau Knows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Crosby wins this one. And to be honest, from a career standpoint he is hardly worse than Forsberg anyway.
Forsberg has 220 more points, but other than that I don't see any real edge for Forsberg in career.

Crosby has the higher pts/game, goals/games, assists/games career and peak. He also has more awards.

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08-21-2013, 02:43 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Interesting comparison. When trying to figure out how to rank Croaby for my centers list, Forsberg is the comparable I thought of

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08-21-2013, 02:47 PM
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The Kingslayer
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Forsberg was scarier with and without the puck. Love Sid but its Forsberg for me.

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08-21-2013, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Interesting comparison. When trying to figure out how to rank Crosby for my centers list, Forsberg is the comparable I thought of
Thanks, TDMM. I thought it was a good comparison also.

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08-21-2013, 03:00 PM
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It is close but I think it is Crosby for me.

I'd still like him to make it definite with a full season at his current rates... that is still a question mark for me.

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08-21-2013, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by The Kingslayer View Post
Forsberg was scarier with and without the puck. Love Sid but its Forsberg for me.
Can you please explain this? I don't think even the biggest Forsberg fan would say that he was scarier offensively.

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08-21-2013, 03:09 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
Can you please explain this? I don't think even the biggest Forsberg fan would say that he was scarier offensively.
One time he scored 30 goals!


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08-21-2013, 04:07 PM
  #12
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I have them at the same level. Ultimately, it comes down to this: How often did someone get Forsberg off his game the way Detroit (2009), Montreal (2010), Philadelphia (2012), and Boston (2013) did to Crosby? Maybe Chicago in 1996? The guy danced around Lidstrom and Chelios in years where they were healthy and Sakic wasn't contributing. Crosby's incredible, but he couldn't break-through against an injured Detroit team, so I don't know that he'd fare any better against a pre-Salary Cap one when he's getting handled on a yearly basis.

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08-21-2013, 05:00 PM
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Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I have them at the same level. Ultimately, it comes down to this: How often did someone get Forsberg off his game the way Detroit (2009), Montreal (2010), Philadelphia (2012), and Boston (2013) did to Crosby? Maybe Chicago in 1996? The guy danced around Lidstrom and Chelios in years where they were healthy and Sakic wasn't contributing. Crosby's incredible, but he couldn't break-through against an injured Detroit team, so I don't know that he'd fare any better against a pre-Salary Cap one when he's getting handled on a yearly basis.
To be fair though, we did see Crosby produce in the postseason. He outperformed the next best player of his era in a series in 2009. He certainly has had his moments in the playoffs but I do agree that he could have done more.

But when looking at the whole picture, Crosby is a guy that has been considered the best player in the game for some time now. He does desperately need a full season on his side now, but Forsberg didn't have that long of a string at the top. Crosby was just more dangerous all around offensively. Not sure about the poster who thought Forsberg was scarier with the puck. He sure was scary, but he wasn't going to shoot much while Crosby has added that element to his repetoire.

Without the puck Crosby is certainly not any worse than Forsberg. So from a peak vs. peak perspective I can't see how Forsberg wins this one.

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08-21-2013, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I have them at the same level. Ultimately, it comes down to this: How often did someone get Forsberg off his game the way Detroit (2009), Montreal (2010), Philadelphia (2012), and Boston (2013) did to Crosby? Maybe Chicago in 1996? The guy danced around Lidstrom and Chelios in years where they were healthy and Sakic wasn't contributing. Crosby's incredible, but he couldn't break-through against an injured Detroit team, so I don't know that he'd fare any better against a pre-Salary Cap one when he's getting handled on a yearly basis.
The one that sticks out is Scott Hannans real breakout-series, the one in 03/04. Never seen Forsberg that "captive". And that´s not just talking about points. But in all fairness, what Hannan was allowed to do to Forsberg then no one after the following lockout has been allowed to do.

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08-21-2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I have them at the same level. Ultimately, it comes down to this: How often did someone get Forsberg off his game the way Detroit (2009), Montreal (2010), Philadelphia (2012), and Boston (2013) did to Crosby? Maybe Chicago in 1996? The guy danced around Lidstrom and Chelios in years where they were healthy and Sakic wasn't contributing. Crosby's incredible, but he couldn't break-through against an injured Detroit team, so I don't know that he'd fare any better against a pre-Salary Cap one when he's getting handled on a yearly basis.
Forsberg:
-1 goal 1 assists in 6 games against Chicago in 1995-1996.
-2 goals 2 assists in 6 games against Detroit in 1995-1996.
-0 goals 1 assists in 5 games against Detroit in 1996-1997.
-2 goals 3 assists in 7 games against Dallas in 1990-2000.
-1 goal 2 assists in 6 games against San Jose in 2003-2004.
-2 goals 2 assists in 5 games against San Jose in 2006-2007.
-1 goal 4 assists in 7 games against Minnesota and Detroit in 2007-2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------
GP G A P PPG
42 9 15 24 0.57

Compared to those series you mentioned for Crosby:
-0 goals 0 assists in 4 games against Boston in 2012-2013.
-3 goals 5 assists in 6 games against Philadelphia in 2011-2012.
-1 goal 4 assists in 7 games against Montreal in 2009-2010.
-1 goal 2 assists in 7 games against Detroit in 2008-2009.
----------------------------------------------------------------
GP G A P PPG
24 5 11 16 0.667

So taking Crosby's series you listed and the worst ones by Forsberg statistically, Crosby still wins. Remove the Philly series (not sure why you included that one, he played fine), Crosby has in his 3 worst series:

Crosby:
GP G A P PPG
18 2 6 8 0.444

Still not much worse than the Forsberg ones above. Of course if you take only Forsbergs 3 worst you get:

Forsberg:
GP G A P PPG
17 2 4 6 0.352

In points Crosby is better at his worst than Forsberg at his worst and better at his best than Forsberg at his best. Forsberg's best series is 12 points in 7 games or 11 points in 6 games. Crosby's is 14 points in 6 games or 13 points in 7 games.


Last edited by Beau Knows: 08-21-2013 at 05:54 PM.
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Old
08-21-2013, 05:46 PM
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Forsberg AINEC really.... better scorer, passer, he's faster, better vision, more physical... he has it all

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08-21-2013, 05:51 PM
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Better scorer? Forsberg did put up points at the pace Crosby does and he sure as hell doesn't score goals like Crosby.

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08-21-2013, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
To be fair though, we did see Crosby produce in the postseason. He outperformed the next best player of his era in a series in 2009. He certainly has had his moments in the playoffs but I do agree that he could have done more.

But when looking at the whole picture, Crosby is a guy that has been considered the best player in the game for some time now. He does desperately need a full season on his side now, but Forsberg didn't have that long of a string at the top. Crosby was just more dangerous all around offensively. Not sure about the poster who thought Forsberg was scarier with the puck. He sure was scary, but he wasn't going to shoot much while Crosby has added that element to his repetoire.

Without the puck Crosby is certainly not any worse than Forsberg. So from a peak vs. peak perspective I can't see how Forsberg wins this one.
I'd agree with all this. I might take Forsberg over early, primarily puck distributing Crosby, but I don't take him over the "new-and-improved" 50 goal scoring and mad faceoff winning version - even with the concussion concerns (which, if "balancing", would cancel concerns for injuries to Forsberg's most lethal weapons: his feet/legs).

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08-21-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Crosby wins this one. And to be honest, from a career standpoint he is hardly worse than Forsberg anyway.

But Crosby in his prime (right now) for sure over Forsberg's best season(s). It took until the last couple games of the year for Crosby to relinquish his scoring lead and he missed 25% of the season. Forsberg could never have done that, and never did do that. Crosby's two best playoff runs trump Forsberg's two best as well. His all around game is at least as good. He is more of a threat to score goals and his vision is better.
Basically this, if not for the recent injuries who knows how high Sid would be on the top 60 center list, as it is he is going to make it, as is Foppa.

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08-21-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Face Of Bear View Post
Forsberg AINEC really.... better scorer, passer, he's faster, better vision, more physical... he has it all
Some of those are at least arguable, but better scorer is ridiculous and calling Forsberg faster suggests you don't even have a basic understanding of the strengths of either player.

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08-21-2013, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Crosby wins this one. And to be honest, from a career standpoint he is hardly worse than Forsberg anyway.

But Crosby in his prime (right now) for sure over Forsberg's best season(s). It took until the last couple games of the year for Crosby to relinquish his scoring lead and he missed 25% of the season. Forsberg could never have done that, and never did do that. Crosby's two best playoff runs trump Forsberg's two best as well. His all around game is at least as good. He is more of a threat to score goals and his vision is better.
I would strongly disagree with the two parts in bold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I have them at the same level. Ultimately, it comes down to this: How often did someone get Forsberg off his game the way Detroit (2009), Montreal (2010), Philadelphia (2012), and Boston (2013) did to Crosby? Maybe Chicago in 1996? The guy danced around Lidstrom and Chelios in years where they were healthy and Sakic wasn't contributing. Crosby's incredible, but he couldn't break-through against an injured Detroit team, so I don't know that he'd fare any better against a pre-Salary Cap one when he's getting handled on a yearly basis.
This is what I was thinking as well. Crosby may be better in the regular season, but for the playoffs I would take Forsberg. I did this poll a few years ago and I'm sure Crosby won it, but IMO they're pretty close so far, prime vs. prime, career should go to Crosby though unless he keeps re-injuring himself.

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08-21-2013, 07:22 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
I would strongly disagree with the two parts in bold...
Why is that? Crosby has rounded his game very nicely over the years. Good defensively, strong on the face off dot..........etc.

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Originally Posted by Face Of Bear View Post
Forsberg AINEC really.... better scorer, passer, he's faster, better vision, more physical... he has it all
There should never be a "its not even close" selection here. Not for either when discussing who is the better player. However, we never saw Forsberg leave the rest of the field in the NHL in the dirt the way Crosby has. So I wouldn't say he was a better scorer. Faster? Definitely not, Crosby is the faster skater. Passer? Crosby is no worse, maybe better. Better vision? Crosby is no worse. Perhaps Forsberg could be more physical, but neither player was soft either.

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08-21-2013, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
I would strongly disagree with the two parts in bold...



This is what I was thinking as well. Crosby may be better in the regular season, but for the playoffs I would take Forsberg. I did this poll a few years ago and I'm sure Crosby won it, but IMO they're pretty close so far, prime vs. prime, career should go to Crosby though unless he keeps re-injuring himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Why is that? Crosby has rounded his game very nicely over the years. Good defensively, strong on the face off dot..........etc.
Crosby has really worked on his game and is very good both ways but as a 2 way guy Foppa was just elite in that regard, although Sid's offensive will probably overshadow that difference at some point IMO.



Quote:
There should never be a "its not even close" selection here. Not for either when discussing who is the better player. However, we never saw Forsberg leave the rest of the field in the NHL in the dirt the way Crosby has. So I wouldn't say he was a better scorer. Faster? Definitely not, Crosby is the faster skater. Passer? Crosby is no worse, maybe better. Better vision? Crosby is no worse. Perhaps Forsberg could be more physical, but neither player was soft either.
For pure offense Sid has the clear peak but for overall play Foppa is maybe a bit better and clearly he was a beast in the playoffs for his era.

Someone posted Foppa's worst series in which he was 42-9-15-24.

That means in his best series, you know the other 109 playoff games, he was 55-92-147 which is simply all time elite outstanding.

overall here is how he compares to his peers in the playoffs.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

He is arguably the best 2 way forward of his era in the playoffs from 94-08, definitely in the top 3 for sure.

Here is how Sid stacks up

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

3rd in points and probably 3rd best overall forward behind Zetts and Dats in that time period (playoffs).

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08-21-2013, 08:18 PM
  #24
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Forsberg is one of my favs all-time, but I think Sid has already edged him out.

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08-21-2013, 08:30 PM
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Good topic. Had to really think about this one. Took Crosby in the end.

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