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Old
06-29-2005, 12:51 PM
  #26
John Flyers Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4check22
I'm not sure about that. The new CBA will have new restricted free-agency numbers, but Esche is worth a first rounder +. I think he will have plenty of suitors willing to give up 1 or even 2 1st round picks, but with the $1 million the Flyers would be offering in your scenario, he could be had for probably a 1st and a third. Again, I'm assuming that the numbers will be lowered from the old primer.
Very few teams are in need of a goalie, and Nobody is going to part withtheir 1st round pick this year, when they don't have a clue as to where the pick will end up.

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Old
06-29-2005, 12:58 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBrown21
I'm not 100% sure Brash will be bought out. Once he has a face-to-face with Hitch and the staff, he could be back w/ a re-structured deal. It's better to keep him than to scramble to signsomeone midseason, if/when Fridge gets hurt. We couldn't sign (via FA) a better fighter than Brashear, so why not try and keep him?

My $$ is also on the signings of Stillman and Aucoin. Neidermayer will re-sign w/ NJ.
IF Brash will come back for 1 million per, or even 1.25, ok.

If not though, 17 is just way too much to pay him.

I agree, Fedoruk scares no one, and Brash does.

He makes too much money though.

The problem is, the buyout at 2/3's is 1.1 million.
He could get 1 million elsewhere.

So, 2.1 million to go elsewhere, or 1.2 million to play here.

I think he's gone.

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Old
06-29-2005, 01:05 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitkanenPower
You know what's a great problem to have? Deciding who of Handzus or Richards should center the 4th line.
It won't be Handzus, he logged more ice time per game than any other Flyers center last year. He's Hitchcock's #1.

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Old
06-29-2005, 01:21 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBrown21
I'm not 100% sure Brash will be bought out. Once he has a face-to-face with Hitch and the staff, he could be back w/ a re-structured deal.

Brash may be in jail... in which case it will be moot.

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Old
06-29-2005, 01:32 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Gagne (2M) - Carter (850K) - **** (3M)
Stillman (1.8M) - Handzus (2.1M) - Knuble (2.1M)
Kapanen (1.5M) - Primeau (3.4M) - Radivojevic (600K)
Sharp (500K) - Richards (850K) - Stevenson (1.3M)

Niedermayer (5M) - Markov (2.4M)
Johnsson (2.25M) - Pitkanen (900K)
Seidenberg (500K) - Desjardins (1.5M)

Esche (1M)
Niittymaki (400K)

Ex:
Timander (600K)
Fedoruk (400K)
Somik (500K)

If JR wants to stay he accepts $3M, if not spend the $3M on one of Demitra, Satan or Murray ... or get real lucky, and play Crosby on the RW ... freeing up an extra few million to turn Desjardins into Adam Foote.

wow that's good! you'll need some opposition in the east, so Crosby has to become a Hab

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Old
06-29-2005, 01:48 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Brash may be in jail... in which case it will be moot.
If Brashear goes to jail they can probably get out of his contract without paying a penny, although if he's got a pitbull agent he might have negotiated an outclause that would lead to a voiding of his contract out.

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Old
06-29-2005, 02:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
If Brashear goes to jail they can probably get out of his contract without paying a penny, although if he's got a pitbull agent he might have negotiated an outclause that would lead to a voiding of his contract out.
AMAZINGLY... Brash did his own negotiating. i'm not making this up.

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Old
06-29-2005, 05:29 PM
  #33
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OK, I am going to throw a wrench into this, and make a trade of Handzus and Radivojevic to Edmonton for Jason Smith and Raffi Torres, and another trade of Somik for a 5th rounder, or whatever he would get.

Gagne(2M)-Roenick(5.7M)-Knuble(1.6M)
Torres(0.9M)-Carter(0.9M)-Stillman(2M) (Stillman can play both wings)
Kapanen(2.2M)-Primeau(3.4M)-Sharp(0.6M)
Fedoruk(0.6M)-Richards(0.9M)-Stevenson(0.8M)
Brashear(1.9M)

Johnsson(2.1M)-Smith(2M)
Markov(2M)-Pitkanen(0.9M)
Desjardins/UFA(2M)-Seidenberg(0.6M)
Timander(0.6M)

Esche(1.5M), Niittymaki(0.6M)


Total Payroll = $35.8 million

P.S. Some of these salaries are complete estimates, based on the rollback, and some guys getting raises. How does it look?

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Old
06-29-2005, 05:47 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
1st line: Carter
2nd line: Zeus
3rd line: Primeau
4th line: Richards/Sharp
Hmm...

Does anyone else here see this as a fairly weak center lineup? I know we all love Carter and Richards, and they both played great for the Phantoms, but are they really ready to be put in to two of the Flyers' 4 lines?

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Old
06-29-2005, 06:04 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Hmm...

Does anyone else here see this as a fairly weak center lineup? I know we all love Carter and Richards, and they both played great for the Phantoms, but are they really ready to be put in to two of the Flyers' 4 lines?
Carter paired with Gagne and Roenick should be more than fine... both Handzus and Primeau are going to be strong as usual, and then you come to the 4th line. I would expect Richards to be a VERY good 4th line center as far as the avg. guy back there in the NHL... my only question is whether we'd be better off as an organization with him playing 1st line duty on the Phantoms. tough call.

Richards is a good face-off guy, an excellent PK'er... and would be on a well-coached team. so no, i wouldn't be too concerned about having him there.

but maybe that is just me.

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Old
06-29-2005, 06:07 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Cross Out The Eyes
I am pretty sure he is an UFA.
According to an article in the Courrier Post, he's an RFA.

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Old
06-29-2005, 06:20 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Carter paired with Gagne and Roenick should be more than fine... both Handzus and Primeau are going to be strong as usual, and then you come to the 4th line. I would expect Richards to be a VERY good 4th line center as far as the avg. guy back there in the NHL... my only question is whether we'd be better off as an organization with him playing 1st line duty on the Phantoms. tough call.

Richards is a good face-off guy, an excellent PK'er... and would be on a well-coached team. so no, i wouldn't be too concerned about having him there.

but maybe that is just me.
I guess it isn't too bad, now that I think about it. 4th line centers are pretty much negligible, and we know what we're getting from Primeau and Handzus, so the only real question would be Carter. A rookie first line center seems kind of like a high risk situation, but we'll see.

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Old
06-29-2005, 06:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
I guess it isn't too bad, now that I think about it. 4th line centers are pretty much negligible, and we know what we're getting from Primeau and Handzus, so the only real question would be Carter. A rookie first line center seems kind of like a high risk situation, but we'll see.
You can't call him a 1st line center in the real sense. There is zero doubt he's going to trail both Handzus and KP in ice time. If you stick people like Gagne and JR on his wings, you have to realize they're also going to be playing with another center at some point.

Carter's going to be 3rd and maybe even 4th amongst centers in ice time. You can't tell me, based on what we know now, that Carter is, 100% for sure, going to get more ice time then Richards. If there was ever a rookie that is a Hitch type of player, it's Richards. But regardless, you can place Carter on any line you want, but he's still going to 3rd in ice time amonst centers at best.

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Old
06-29-2005, 07:11 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Hmm...

Does anyone else here see this as a fairly weak center lineup? I know we all love Carter and Richards, and they both played great for the Phantoms, but are they really ready to be put in to two of the Flyers' 4 lines?
Yes. If Carter's name was Ovechkin or Crosby no one would bat an eyelid. Carter's potential may not be as high as those two players, but his current readiness without question is at least as high as Ovechkins and probably higher than Crosby's. Anyway, The way you develop a young top six forward is to give him top six minutes and players to play with.

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Old
06-29-2005, 08:40 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Yes. If Carter's name was Ovechkin or Crosby no one would bat an eyelid. Carter's potential may not be as high as those two players, but his current readiness without question is at least as high as Ovechkins and probably higher than Crosby's. Anyway, The way you develop a young top six forward is to give him top six minutes and players to play with.
Not to sound like a homer, but I think Carter's upside is just as high as Ovechkin and Malkin. The problem is that he won't get a lot of minutes on a veteran ladden Philadelphia team that he would get if he were a Capital or Blue Jackets or Penguins prospect would get.

I sometimes wonder if spoonfeeding players ice time is the best thing to do or if you just let them loose to see what they can do. Spoonfeeding them doesn't give a true assessment of how good they can really be. And that's what worries me about being in Philadelphia. If they aren't putting up the numbers, then whose to say that they aren't classified as busts and we deal them for a player who is just past his prime?

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Old
06-29-2005, 08:55 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
1st line: Carter
2nd line: Zeus
3rd line: Primeau
4th line: Richards/Sharp
Richards is much too talented to play fourth line minutes. Even if they start him in that spot, they will be forced to play him more minutes. He will be Hitch's favorite player. If we could get Stillman I would love to see Richards centering him and Knuble. Handzus is trade bait.

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Old
06-29-2005, 10:06 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish
Richards is much too talented to play fourth line minutes. Even if they start him in that spot, they will be forced to play him more minutes. He will be Hitch's favorite player. If we could get Stillman I would love to see Richards centering him and Knuble. Handzus is trade bait.
he is NOT going to get minutes -- even in a defensive role -- over Handzus and Primeau to start. he most likely won't get minutes 5-on-5 over Carter at that. that isn't to say he won't get decent minutes playing in the 4th line role for Hitch. he will obviously get a lot of PK minutes for Hitch, plus a lot of nights Hitch puts the 4th line out there for 10 min. so, if he's looking at 10 min + PK and maybe some PP time, that isn't bad at all.

you will note i question whether or not he should be playing first line for the Phantoms as opposed to 4th line with the Flyers. in any event, he will NOT be getting 2nd, or even 3rd minutes at center for this club in his rookie season barring injury to those above him.

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Old
06-29-2005, 11:55 PM
  #43
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If Richards is as good a PKer as I have read, I think he would be getting PK ice time. Just because Handzus and Primeau are playing on the PK doesn't mean Richards can't. Remember, there are four spots on a PK unit...not one.

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Old
06-30-2005, 07:29 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish
Richards is much too talented to play fourth line minutes. Even if they start him in that spot, they will be forced to play him more minutes. He will be Hitch's favorite player. If we could get Stillman I would love to see Richards centering him and Knuble. Handzus is trade bait.


I have to keep repeating myself...Handzus is not...IS NOT....IS NOT trade bait. What are you going to do trade him and then Hitchcock wants another center with playoff experience because he's going to end up giving Carter and Richards 4th line ice time during the playoffs? Yeah right. Handzus hold a lot of value in the league, in this conference and on this team. Guys like Michal Handzus don't grow on trees.

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Old
06-30-2005, 07:41 AM
  #45
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I say we just get rid of the veterans and go with a very young hockey club. We aren't doing Richards and Carter any favours by giving them p*ss poor ice time and how are they supposed to learn if they are only getting 7 to 10 minutes of ice time per game. This isn't a situation where they are 18 years old and coming into the league. The two of them are 20 years old and this is usually the time you want them to have as much ice time as possible.

I know I'll be called a madman for this, but maybe we should be looking at making room for these kids and letting them take over respective positions. Hitch has mentioned previously that he wants to incorporate more youth onto the team and give them bigger roles. What bigger roles could they get if you get rid of the veterans like Roenick and Handzus? Some may call it insane, but I call it giving the kids the opportunities and ice time they need.

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Old
06-30-2005, 07:49 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
I have to keep repeating myself...Handzus is not...IS NOT....IS NOT trade bait. What are you going to do trade him and then Hitchcock wants another center with playoff experience because he's going to end up giving Carter and Richards 4th line ice time during the playoffs? Yeah right. Handzus hold a lot of value in the league, in this conference and on this team. Guys like Michal Handzus don't grow on trees.
Agree 100%. As good as Carter and Richards are/will/can be, the bottom line is they are rookies. It's a long season, and to expect them to be able to perform at an NHL caliber level into the playoffs is unreasonable. Handzus is a guy that can finish, dish, PK, and could very will be a Selke candidate. He's not going anywhere...they can't replace all the roles he performs for this team.

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Old
06-30-2005, 07:56 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
I have to keep repeating myself...Handzus is not...IS NOT....IS NOT trade bait. What are you going to do trade him and then Hitchcock wants another center with playoff experience because he's going to end up giving Carter and Richards 4th line ice time during the playoffs? Yeah right. Handzus hold a lot of value in the league, in this conference and on this team. Guys like Michal Handzus don't grow on trees.
I agree with you GKJ. Handzus is a centerpiece of the Hitch system. I absolutely don't see him trading Zeus to anybody.

On the subject of the Flyers Centers, I am a bit concerned. I saw many many lineups proposals with Carter as th #1 center. Do you really think the guy is ready to take the spot? I mean, we all know Hitch is not fond of having a lot of rookies on his team, so I am doutbful on the fact he would give 1st line duty to a rookie, even if it's Carter. The guy is SO talented, I truly like what I saw of him, and he will be an all-star player IMO, but isn't it too soon to give him such a role?
Honnestly, I would prefer to see Preems ou Zeus on the first line with Gags and maybe JR on the RW (even if I see JR more of a C than a RW). Carter would be on the 2nd line, Preems or Zeus ont the third, and Richards on the 4th.

And about Richards on the 4th, I don't see it as a "demotion". The guy is incredibly good, and has a lot of value. I just think he will be part of the defensive unit, the PK unit, and Hitch probably will give time on the PP too sometine. And with a fairly nice ice time total.

But we also have to take into account that in da "Hitch system", you don't really have clear-cut 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th line. 'Cause he loves so much to mix it up, to dispatch the ice time as he wants. So, maybe Carts would be listed as the #1 C, but he will have not a huge IT....

Just my two cents.

That said, I can't wait to see a deal done and the free agency to start! It's gonna be really interesting !

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06-30-2005, 08:01 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Flyman
I agree with you GKJ.And about Richards on the 4th, I don't see it as a "demotion". The guy is incredibly good, and has a lot of value. I just think he will be part of the defensive unit, the PK unit, and Hitch probably will give time on the PP too sometine. And with a fairly nice ice time total.

But we also have to take into account that in da "Hitch system", you don't really have clear-cut 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th line. 'Cause he loves so much to mix it up, to dispatch the ice time as he wants. So, maybe Carts would be listed as the #1 C, but he will have not a huge IT....

Just my two cents.

That said, I can't wait to see a deal done and the free agency to start! It's gonna be really interesting !
You're saying that playing with Fedoruk and Stevenson isn't a demotion? Come on. If we're going to play Richards, at least let him play with some half decent talent. Instead, we have the guy playing with scrubs. A complete waste of Richards' talent.

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Old
06-30-2005, 08:22 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
I have to keep repeating myself...Handzus is not...IS NOT....IS NOT trade bait. What are you going to do trade him and then Hitchcock wants another center with playoff experience because he's going to end up giving Carter and Richards 4th line ice time during the playoffs? Yeah right. Handzus hold a lot of value in the league, in this conference and on this team. Guys like Michal Handzus don't grow on trees.
in a year or two, handzus MIGHT be expendable... but not this year. this team is too competitive for them to start unloading major minute guys.

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06-30-2005, 08:49 AM
  #50
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Jester, I'm not sure what your problem with Richards is. He is just as ready for the NHL as Carter and will have just as big of an impact.

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