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Derek Stepan, or 2014 1st and 3rd?

View Poll Results: Which would you rather have?
Derek Stepan 7 11.29%
2015 1st and 3rd round picks 55 88.71%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-26-2013, 04:00 PM
  #1
SmellOfVictory
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Derek Stepan, or 2014 1st and 3rd?

Would you rather have Derek Stepan or the chance at Ekblad/Reinhart and a high 3rd rounder? Just curious as NYR and Stepan seem to be at a serious impasse, and going off the possibility that Stepan could be successfully offer sheeted for roughly 5 million dollars.

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08-26-2013, 04:02 PM
  #2
MarkGio
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Draft picks, easily. If he's not signing in New York and wants 5 million, the risks are too great

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08-26-2013, 04:08 PM
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InfinityIggy
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I am in the boat that thinks that we will finish bottom 3. I take Reinhart, Ekblad or Nylander over Stepan.

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08-26-2013, 04:11 PM
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Offersheets on rebuilding teams have always been ********.

Look at Toronto, yea they got Kessel, but losing Hamilton/Seguin has put that franchise back huge and basically rebuilt an older core in Boston.

Anyone who votes Stepan i would worry about.

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08-26-2013, 04:22 PM
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Hockey Ninja
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Picks. No more offer-sheets.

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08-26-2013, 04:23 PM
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Johnny Hoxville
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I'm not gonna get into it, but I chose Stepan. Love everything about his game.

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08-26-2013, 04:24 PM
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The Gnome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
I am in the boat that thinks that we will finish bottom 3. I take Reinhart, Ekblad or Nylander over Stepan.
There is a high chance that we could land top 3, but that doesn't mean everything to me as Stepan is plenty young and already proven. Though, it really is a tough choice already when factoring in just the players

The one things that tips the scales in favour of not offer-sheeting Stepan IMO is the timing

This is not the right time for the flames to commit term and $$$ to players. They really need to evaluate what they have coming through the pipe right now. Even though Stepan is young, he's not going to make the flames a competitive PO team over the next couple of years. Why rush things, our best players (potentially) are still 1-3 years removed from seeing NHL action. Re-evaluate in time, and then when you still have cap room, think about throwing an offer-sheet to high profile RFA or picking up a big name UFA (UFAs will come, if they have a reason to)

That said Stepan has been great for the last 2-3 years. He's a proven player and is very young still. The guy makes players around him better and I think he'll continue to have a very productive career. Emotionally I would love to offer-sheet him, but my head says no.

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08-26-2013, 04:32 PM
  #8
Johnny Hoxville
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Cammy's contract is coming off the books next year which would effectively cover Stepan's salary. The cap will go up and he's only 23. Hopefully we can move Cammy to get another first and flip someone else like Stemps to get a 2nd to continue our rebuild. Stepan to me is a sure thing and the only player I'm convinced will be better is Reinhart and there's no guarantees we get him.

That's my reasoning why I think we should, that's all I'm going to comment on the matter in this thread.

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08-26-2013, 04:33 PM
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MarkGio
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I'm not sure I'd want Reinhart either. No more nepotism

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08-26-2013, 04:34 PM
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I keep the picks. As good and proven as Stepan is, I would rather keep the picks and hope they develop into even more and become a home run.

One thing I am shocked no one has said is that acquiring someone like Stepan combined with the improvement of our youth would make it much more difficult to land McDavid in 2015. While I hate that line of thinking, it still shocks me it hasn't been mentioned.

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08-26-2013, 04:43 PM
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InfinityIggy
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GUYS WE HAVE TO GET MCDAVID. GOD.

Amazing Stride.


Fantastic at Road Hockey.


Giant wooden plaque!!!


I don't think you guys are getting it.

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08-26-2013, 04:44 PM
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Johnny Hoxville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I keep the picks. As good and proven as Stepan is, I would rather keep the picks and hope they develop into even more and become a home run.

One thing I am shocked no one has said is that acquiring someone like Stepan combined with the improvement of our youth would make it much more difficult to land McDavid in 2015. While I hate that line of thinking, it still shocks me it hasn't been mentioned.
You were one poster I may of thought would of been on board with the idea. I don't criticize anyone for not wanting to do it, but I see this move as making us better now and for a long time. Stepan is extremely underrated. But I understand the thought of being against it.

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08-26-2013, 04:56 PM
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Picks. Only reason he'd be considered more valuable to a team than a top first-round pick is because he's already developed. For the Flames, that shouldn't be a factor, because the rest of the team isn't, and we won't be ready to contend for a while (by which time Mr. 2014 first rounder will be ready anyway). Besides, an 18-year-old star gives us a much bigger window of opportunity than a 23-year-old one, given he would be 5 years further from unrestriction.

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08-26-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wflames View Post
Picks. Only reason he'd be considered more valuable to a team than a top first-round pick is because he's already developed. For the Flames, that shouldn't be a factor, because the rest of the team isn't, and we won't be ready to contend for a while (by which time Mr. 2014 first rounder will be ready anyway). Besides, an 18-year-old star gives us a much bigger window of opportunity than a 23-year-old one, given he would be 5 years further from unrestriction.
Another big reason for me. That good, cheap talent can really make the difference for a competing team needing space to push them over the edge for the cup. We've seen this a lot in the cap world.

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08-26-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wflames View Post
Picks. Only reason he'd be considered more valuable to a team than a top first-round pick is because he's already developed. For the Flames, that shouldn't be a factor, because the rest of the team isn't, and we won't be ready to contend for a while (by which time Mr. 2014 first rounder will be ready anyway). Besides, an 18-year-old star gives us a much bigger window of opportunity than a 23-year-old one, given he would be 5 years further from unrestriction.
DING DING DING.

This is the reason why the offersheet makes no sense.

Not to mention Stepan makes us MARGINALLY better now when the rest of the team is terrible. No sense in wasting money and RFA years on a someone when the team wont be competing.

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08-26-2013, 06:29 PM
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SmellOfVictory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
DING DING DING.

This is the reason why the offersheet makes no sense.

Not to mention Stepan makes us MARGINALLY better now when the rest of the team is terrible. No sense in wasting money and RFA years on a someone when the team wont be competing.
Although I lean more to the "keep the picks" side of things, there is an argument in that A) he's a proven young player, and B) his presence could help shorten the rebuild notably. Given another 2-3 years, he/Backlund/Brodie would all be in the meaty bit of their prime age ranges, while the current crop of prospects would be hitting their NHL potentials (whatever those may be; Monahan and Baertschi are safe bets, I'd say, and beyond that, who knows).

In another draft year I wouldn't even think this offer sheet warranted consideration, but from all I've heard 2014 is expected to be quite a weak draft from top to bottom.

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08-26-2013, 07:55 PM
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A guy like Ekblad is just what we need. Picks for sure.

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08-26-2013, 07:59 PM
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Other than the fact I don't think that is enough for NYR to not match I would rather the extra years of salary control over Reinhart/Ekbland/etc than Stepan I don't see him as someone that has earned a long term contract at 5+ million yet.

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08-26-2013, 08:08 PM
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Johnny Hoxville
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What happens if we get decent goaltending and finish 6-10th? Nothing is guaranteed..

People are making assumptions as if it is a given we are drafting top 3, that is by no means a certainty however likely it is. Ours players are actually gonna try and win games next year guys.

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08-26-2013, 08:11 PM
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TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
What happens if we get decent goaltending and finish 6-10th? Nothing is guaranteed..

People are making assumptions as if it is a given we are drafting top 3, that is by no means a certainty however likely it is. Ours players are actually gonna try and win games next year guys.
Again I would rather get the 6th best prospect and control his cap then risk signing a second line player long term to a 5+ million dollar contract. This isn't the year to try and make a big addition we need atleast one more year of stocking up before we have a solid enough base to build around. It has been decades since we had our own home grown players and what we are seeing is that that is the way to be successful in the NHL. Rebuilds suck but stick to the plan and we could have a decade + of great hockey for 1 or 2 more sad sack teams.

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08-26-2013, 08:20 PM
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Johnny Hoxville
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Again I would rather get the 6th best prospect and control his cap then risk signing a second line player long term to a 5+ million dollar contract. This isn't the year to try and make a big addition we need atleast one more year of stocking up before we have a solid enough base to build around. It has been decades since we had our own home grown players and what we are seeing is that that is the way to be successful in the NHL. Rebuilds suck but stick to the plan and we could have a decade + of great hockey for 1 or 2 more sad sack teams.
I'm not even talking about Stepan, but it's a little presumptuous of everyone to assume we're drafting top 3. We were in the bottom 3 of the league last year, everyone thought MacKinnon was ours at the time. We pulled ourselves into 6th with a less talented roster than what we will have going into next season. My point is, nothing is guaranteed and people need to stop saying we are getting a top 3 pick because while it may be likely it's not the case yet.

Regarding Stepan, if we did draft 6-10th who knows how that player will turn out. Probably not as good as Stepan so that would change things a little. Regardless, I respect what you said you feel our plan should be.

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08-26-2013, 08:46 PM
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I'm not even talking about Stepan, but it's a little presumptuous of everyone to assume we're drafting top 3. We were in the bottom 3 of the league last year, everyone thought MacKinnon was ours at the time. We pulled ourselves into 6th with a less talented roster than what we will have going into next season. My point is, nothing is guaranteed and people need to stop saying we are getting a top 3 pick because while it may be likely it's not the case yet.

Regarding Stepan, if we did draft 6-10th who knows how that player will turn out. Probably not as good as Stepan so that would change things a little. Regardless, I respect what you said you feel our plan should be.
Drafting top 3 isn't a consideration for me. You can get guys like Derek Stepan in most drafts even in the second round. This is not our one chance to acquire a player of his calibre, and so it doesn't make sense to give up the opportunity to get an even better centre, while also getting a better fit for our team.

I disagree that a player drafted 6-10th would 'probably' not turn out as well as Stepan. I think it would be disappointing if we couldn't turn out a better player from that sort of draft position, and that is on top of the fact that the timing is wrong to be adding a player like that.

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08-26-2013, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I'm not even talking about Stepan, but it's a little presumptuous of everyone to assume we're drafting top 3. We were in the bottom 3 of the league last year, everyone thought MacKinnon was ours at the time. We pulled ourselves into 6th with a less talented roster than what we will have going into next season. My point is, nothing is guaranteed and people need to stop saying we are getting a top 3 pick because while it may be likely it's not the case yet.

Regarding Stepan, if we did draft 6-10th who knows how that player will turn out. Probably not as good as Stepan so that would change things a little. Regardless, I respect what you said you feel our plan should be.
Like all things, there's always a possibility of anything. But in reality, the are odds are against the Flames next season. Feaster shouldn't bet against the odds.

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08-26-2013, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wflames View Post
Drafting top 3 isn't a consideration for me. You can get guys like Derek Stepan in most drafts even in the second round. This is not our one chance to acquire a player of his calibre, and so it doesn't make sense to give up the opportunity to get an even better centre, while also getting a better fit for our team.

I disagree that a player drafted 6-10th would 'probably' not turn out as well as Stepan. I think it would be disappointing if we couldn't turn out a better player from that sort of draft position, and that is on top of the fact that the timing is wrong to be adding a player like that.
See I disagree with most of this

You may get lucky and turn out a top line player if you draft in the 6-10 range but I think more typically, if your drafting in that range your likely getting a top 6 guy and probably a player who will make it. It's rare to draft a #1C in the second round, that will score 65-70pts, and can play the PP and PK. I think your underrating Stepan quite a bit. Especially in a weaker draft you would of done very well if you land a player like him in the 6-10 range (ie. Scheifele).

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08-26-2013, 09:14 PM
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See I disagree with most of this

You may get lucky and turn out a top line player if you draft in the 6-10 range but I think more typically, if your drafting in that range your likely getting a top 6 guy and probably a player who will make it. It's rare to draft a #1C in the second round, that will score 65-70pts, and can play the PP and PK. I think your underrating Stepan quite a bit. Especially in a weaker draft you would of done very well if you land a player like him in the 6-10 range (ie. Scheifele).
Isn't that pretty much exactly what we're expecting Monahan to be? And with Backlund, Knight, Granlund, Horak and Reinhart behind him on the depth chart, there is no long-term need for that kind of player. I would do this for a 90-point guy. The guy we always dreamed of. I wouldn't for another low-end top-line centre like Daymond Langkow.

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