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Garth Snow: The NHL's Most Underrated GM

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08-22-2013, 01:40 AM
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ShawnTHW
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Garth Snow: The NHL's Most Underrated GM

Your fellow Islanders writer, Toli Metter, is at it again. He goes into great depth in this article and explains why Garth Snow is the NHL's most underrated general manager.

http://thehockeywriters.com/garth-sn...underrated-gm/

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08-22-2013, 02:28 AM
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Your fellow Islanders writer, Toli Metter, is at it again. He goes into great depth in this article and explains why Garth Snow is the NHL's most underrated general manager.

http://thehockeywriters.com/garth-sn...underrated-gm/
Good article.

I give Snow big props for his handling of contracts , solid ufa signings and finding solid waiver wire pickups.

He has been in charge of 7 drafts. Other then Tavares , Hamonic , Martin , Cizikas ...what Snow picks are contributing for the isles in the NHL?
Also, I cannot give Snow props for his 2007 trade deadline moves pushing the isles into the playoff. The isles were in 6th place and playing well at the TDL. They looked well on their way to a playoff spot before the Smyth trade.

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08-22-2013, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Good article.

I give Snow big props for his handling of contracts , solid ufa signings and finding solid waiver wire pickups.

He has been in charge of 7 drafts. Other then Tavares , Hamonic , Martin , Cizikas ...what Snow picks are contributing for the isles in the NHL?
Also, I cannot give Snow props for his 2007 trade deadline moves pushing the isles into the playoff. The isles were in 6th place and playing well at the TDL. They looked well on their way to a playoff spot before the Smyth trade.
Kind of unfair considering Strome,Donovan,Reinhart,Nelson,and Pulock (just to name a few) are not in the NHL just yet. Save this convo for like 3 or 4 more years. Are we not including Bailey for some reason also?

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I was having a debate the other day with one of my friends and i was mentioning that we have not seem to have lost good/great talent over the last 10 years opposed to the 10 prior as i will show below. Also if this was a perfect world and Wang could spend some money maybe we don't have some of the prospects we have now due to finishing better or getting better players using some our picks. The main point or question i'm asking is are we getting better at keeping our prospects or are we just not picking as well? I also know this is a bit early to tell because there are still some players in the system who have yet to make it to the NHL yet.

Here are the players who we picked form 1992-2012 who ended up playing for some length in the NHL.
92 draft Kasparaitis
93 draft Bertuzzi,McCabe,Salo, and Van Impe
94 draft Lukowich,Strudwick
95 draft Redden,Jan Hlavac
96 draft Dumot,Chara (Milbury to 2005)
97 draft Luongo,Brewer
98 draft Mike Rupp
99 draft Connolly,Pyatt, and Martinek
00 draft DiPietro,Torres
01 draft NOBODY and when i say nobody Andy Chiodo was the only player who played 1 or more games in the NHL from the 8 players we drafted and he played a grand total of 8 games.

So 1st 10 of 20 has some great players and some of which are still playing. Notice that only DP and Martinek (picked in the 8th round) have played a significant time with the Islanders. I bolded all the players still active in the league as of today.

The last 10 years
02 draft Bergenheim,Nielsen
03 draft Robert Nilsson,Gervais
04 draft Comeau,Campoli
05 draft nobody has done much of anything,Ryan O'Marra our 1st pick was traded in the Smyth deal (MMM last year)
06 draft Okposo,Joensuu,McDonald
07 draft just had 5 picks and really nothing to name (Snow's 1st year as GM)
08 draft 9 Joshua Bailey, 40 Aaron Ness 53 Travis Hamonic,Matt Donovan 102 David Ullstrom,126 Kevin Poulin,148 Matt Martin looking as the best draft we have had in many years.
09 draft John Tavares,Calvin de Haan,Mikko Koskinen,Anders Nilsson,Casey Cizika,Anders Lee
10 draft Nino Niederreiter,Brock Nelson,Kirill Kabanov
11 draft Ryan Strome,Scott Mayfield,Johan Sundstrom,John Persson,Brenden Kichton
12 draft Griffin Reinhart,Ville Pokka,Adam Pelech,Loic Leduc,Doyle Somerby,Jesse Graham,Jake Bischoff

Now obviously from 2010 on most players have yet to play in the NHL but some very good-great prospects, headlining are Nino,Nelson,Strome, and Reinhart. Now within the last 10 years we have lost some players but nothing as in terms of quality as like the previous 10 nor do i think any of them will ever become anything better then 2nd line players or 2nd line d pairings at best.

After all this never ending research i personally think GM Garth has drafted good-great and way better than Milbury and Maloney and considering 8 of those players he drafted are currently on our NHL roster and even besides the 4 i mentioned above there is still lots of talent behind them as well but those being the best 4 at the moment.

The draft history is here in case i missed anyone that you think of who has high potential who i may have left off and where i obtained my research
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00007085.html

P.S. for my mental sanity i did omit the "better" three brothers (Lindross,Kessel and Toews)


Last edited by MattMartin: 08-22-2013 at 04:10 AM.
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08-22-2013, 07:11 AM
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Sorry, but I'm not even going to dignify it with a click. Snow is obviously good in negotiating contracts with younger players. His drafts have been decent, but nothing special. 2010 looks to be as bad as 2008 looks good.

But he has shown nothing in terms of going from rebuilding upstart to legitimate competitor. Here's the tasks he had in front of him:

1. Upgrade in net. FAIL In a market flush with goaltenders, he chose a goalie with an amiable personality who went toe to toe with MA Fleury in terms of sheer futility.
2. Get a top-4 Dman to stabilize the D while youngsters are worked in. FAIL We're going to start out the season with Brian Strait or Thomas Hickey paired with Visnovsky.
3. The Top RW. Meh. Bouchard is okay, and not much was available. No big issue here.

I'm so f'ing sick on this grading on a curve BS.

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08-22-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Sorry, but I'm not even going to dignify it with a click. Snow is obviously good in negotiating contracts with younger players. His drafts have been decent, but nothing special. 2010 looks to be as bad as 2008 looks good.

But he has shown nothing in terms of going from rebuilding upstart to legitimate competitor. Here's the tasks he had in front of him:

1. Upgrade in net. FAIL In a market flush with goaltenders, he chose a goalie with an amiable personality who went toe to toe with MA Fleury in terms of sheer futility.
2. Get a top-4 Dman to stabilize the D while youngsters are worked in. FAIL We're going to start out the season with Brian Strait or Thomas Hickey paired with Visnovsky.
3. The Top RW. Meh. Bouchard is okay, and not much was available. No big issue here.

I'm so f'ing sick on this grading on a curve BS.
There's still some interesting UFA's looking for jobs. I'm expecting a few camp invites that might sign on the cheap.

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08-22-2013, 08:32 AM
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I'm not reading the article. I have followed this team since 83.

I know what Snow has done.


He gets an INCOMPLETE.


He got the team as a cellar dweller... and through some solid (some NO-BRAINER) draft pics, he has some solid players.. so now the team is a contender for the last playoff spot.

Lets be honest. That is what he has done. If he can find coaches/people to turn Okposo Bailey and Grabnet into consistent solid players, rather than the streaky enigmas that they are, THEN he can get a better grade.

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08-22-2013, 08:39 AM
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if you can give Snow props for his contacts then you must give Snow criticism for how poor he is with asset management.

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08-22-2013, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Sorry, but I'm not even going to dignify it with a click. he has shown nothing in terms of going from rebuilding upstart to legitimate competitor. I'm so f'ing sick on this grading on a curve BS.
Couldn't agree more. As another posted stated above, he gets an "incomplete."

A lot more progress is in order before we start showering him with accolades.

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08-22-2013, 09:30 AM
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A "incomplete" is a fair grade because we have no idea what kind of pay he is allowed to dish out.

I would say a A if he was told to spend the floor. A D grade would be in order if Wang said "spend up to 50$ mil (or so)".

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08-22-2013, 09:57 AM
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A "incomplete" is a fair grade because we have no idea what kind of pay he is allowed to dish out.

I would say a A if he was told to spend the floor. A D grade would be in order if Wang said "spend up to 50$ mil (or so)".
A perennial cellar dweller gets an A? Wow.

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08-22-2013, 11:17 AM
  #11
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I at least feel we are moving in the right direction. I do not believe we will contend until we are in the new arena with higher revenue.

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08-22-2013, 11:37 AM
  #12
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Patience or scared to make a move? I'm not so sure. There really was no excuse this year to not go after some better players. Particularly in goal.

I'm not a Snow fan, but I do agree he's misjudged around the league & media.

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08-22-2013, 11:47 AM
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Kind of unfair considering Strome,Donovan,Reinhart,Nelson,and Pulock (just to name a few) are not in the NHL just yet. Save this convo for like 3 or 4 more years. Are we not including Bailey for some reason also?
I forgot about Bailey. Make that a total of 5 draft picks in the nhl , contributing to the isles , since the 2007 draft(Snow's first draft as gm)

Woohoo (sarcasm)

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08-22-2013, 11:51 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
I'm not reading the article. I have followed this team since 83.

I know what Snow has done.


He gets an INCOMPLETE.


He got the team as a cellar dweller... and through some solid (some NO-BRAINER) draft pics, he has some solid players.. so now the team is a contender for the last playoff spot.

Lets be honest. That is what he has done. If he can find coaches/people to turn Okposo Bailey and Grabnet into consistent solid players, rather than the streaky enigmas that they are, THEN he can get a better grade.
What was a no-brainer pick? Tavares? I see this a lot, yet the board was pretty split at the time of the draft. Even the "experts" had different rankings. Other than that, I really don't see any no brainer draft picks.

What he has done is drafted well(have there been bad picks? Sure, but every team has them), refused to cash in on the short-term fixes(a Yashin-esque trade), and found key pieces from digging through other teams' trash. Moulson, Grabner, Strait, possibly Hickey. Even guys who are gone now, Streit and Parenteau, were both great pickups. Not to mention Nabokov, who granted is too old to be a part of the core, but without him we certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs last year.

Goaltending is a huge question-mark, but I'm pretty confident that the plan is to ride out Nabby for one more year and then make a play for one of the big UFA goalies. I believe he would have liked to grab one this offseason through the trade market, but I'm assuming either the price was too high, or teams like Vancouver and/or LAK didn't want Nino.

Regardless, it's a lot easier to address one hole than 5 or 10. As far as I can tell, this team only has one hole going forward. We are very strong up front when looking at what Strome and Nelson can/will bring to the table. We are still pretty weak defensively, but the law of averages says at least a couple of our 7 top-end D prospects will pan out, and probably sooner rather than later. I expect the defense to get stronger and stronger as time goes on.

We've been a basement team for a lot longer than we all expected, I'm sure, but looking at what we currently have and what's been built, I'm pretty pleased with the route Garth decided to take. I don't think our future has been this promising since before the Dynasty years. Sure, we can look back and complain about how bad the lottery years were, but I'd rather focus on what we have now, and what we have now is an extremely impressive core of young, hard-working, and talented players.

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08-22-2013, 11:55 AM
  #15
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Goaltending is a huge question-mark, but I'm pretty confident that the plan is to ride out Nabby for one more year and then make a play for one of the big UFA goalies. I believe he would have liked to grab one this offseason through the trade market, but I'm assuming either the price was too high, or teams like Vancouver and/or LAK didn't want Nino.
Why was Nino's caphit so high? Why was his trade value so low?

Don't tell me Snow deserves no blame for this...

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08-22-2013, 12:02 PM
  #16
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The most frustrating part as a fan is our lack of info. We have no idea what LA was looking for for Bernier (still really ****ing pissed we missed out on him, he'll be better than Schneider). It looks like Garth is playing it safe and if he couldn't get the deal he wanted he'll just hold.

To Dan-0, this wasn't the only year to acquire a goalie. Anaheim and St.Louis need to make decisions, Tim Thomas and Brytz are still UFA's.

I think it will still be 2 years before we make any kind of serious move which will push us from bubble team to contender.

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08-22-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Why was Nino's caphit so high? Why was his trade value so low?

Don't tell me Snow deserves no blame for this...
Sure he deserves blame. Does that mean he's done a bad job here? Because of the development of one prospect?

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08-22-2013, 12:39 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
What was a no-brainer pick? Tavares? I see this a lot, yet the board was pretty split at the time of the draft. Even the "experts" had different rankings. Other than that, I really don't see any no brainer draft picks.

What he has done is drafted well(have there been bad picks? Sure, but every team has them), refused to cash in on the short-term fixes(a Yashin-esque trade), and found key pieces from digging through other teams' trash. Moulson, Grabner, Strait, possibly Hickey. Even guys who are gone now, Streit and Parenteau, were both great pickups. Not to mention Nabokov, who granted is too old to be a part of the core, but without him we certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs last year.

Goaltending is a huge question-mark, but I'm pretty confident that the plan is to ride out Nabby for one more year and then make a play for one of the big UFA goalies. I believe he would have liked to grab one this offseason through the trade market, but I'm assuming either the price was too high, or teams like Vancouver and/or LAK didn't want Nino.

Regardless, it's a lot easier to address one hole than 5 or 10. As far as I can tell, this team only has one hole going forward. We are very strong up front when looking at what Strome and Nelson can/will bring to the table. We are still pretty weak defensively, but the law of averages says at least a couple of our 7 top-end D prospects will pan out, and probably sooner rather than later. I expect the defense to get stronger and stronger as time goes on.

We've been a basement team for a lot longer than we all expected, I'm sure, but looking at what we currently have and what's been built, I'm pretty pleased with the route Garth decided to take. I don't think our future has been this promising since before the Dynasty years. Sure, we can look back and complain about how bad the lottery years were, but I'd rather focus on what we have now, and what we have now is an extremely impressive core of young, hard-working, and talented players.


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08-22-2013, 12:48 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I forgot about Bailey. Make that a total of 5 draft picks in the nhl , contributing to the isles , since the 2007 draft(Snow's first draft as gm)

Woohoo (sarcasm)
And likely 2 more this year and would bring us to a grand total of 7 Woohoo .
By 2015 could be 9/10 Woohoo .
Maybe he can draft a full 20 team roster and get a cup and i'm sure some of you would still have some complaints.

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08-22-2013, 12:56 PM
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I forgot about Bailey. Make that a total of 5 draft picks in the nhl , contributing to the isles , since the 2007 draft(Snow's first draft as gm)

Woohoo (sarcasm)
Okposo Bailey Martin Cizikas Tavares Hamonic A Mac? Did he not draft Okposo?

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08-22-2013, 01:01 PM
  #21
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Sure he deserves blame. Does that mean he's done a bad job here? Because of the development of one prospect?
One? Two - Bailey. He should never have been in the league that year. Two top-10 draft picks out of 4 handled badly. 50%. Good?

Other than the development foibles, Snow has taken 0 risks. So it means he's done a 'meh' job. If the goaltending becomes a fiasco, he'll not be long for the job.

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08-22-2013, 01:05 PM
  #22
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Okposo Bailey Martin Cizikas Tavares Hamonic A Mac? Did he not draft Okposo?
He was drafted by Smith.

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08-22-2013, 01:05 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I forgot about Bailey. Make that a total of 5 draft picks in the nhl , contributing to the isles , since the 2007 draft(Snow's first draft as gm)

Woohoo (sarcasm)

Wait. Now we're complaining about prospects not getting here quick enough? Haven't I been reading page after page on HFBoards about not rushing prospects?

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08-22-2013, 01:07 PM
  #24
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One? Two - Bailey. He should never have been in the league that year. Two top-10 draft picks out of 4 handled badly. 50%. Good?

Other than the development foibles, Snow has taken 0 risks. So it means he's done a 'meh' job. If the goaltending becomes a fiasco, he'll not be long for the job.
He's doing exactly what Wang wants him to do. He's not going anywhere any time soon. Do you really think that he wouldn't go out and spend if he wasn't being restrained?

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08-22-2013, 01:09 PM
  #25
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And likely 2 more this year and would bring us to a grand total of 7 Woohoo .
By 2015 could be 9/10 Woohoo .
Maybe he can draft a full 20 team roster and get a cup and i'm sure some of you would still have some complaints.
Win a cup?

Hell, I wish his team could win a round.

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