HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Greatest player who never won a scoring title?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-18-2013, 03:44 PM
  #1
Cursed Lemon
Registered Bruiser
 
Cursed Lemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Cursed Lemon
Greatest player who never won a scoring title?

Here's a list of winners:

Elmer Lach
Roy Conacher
Ted Lindsay
Gordie Howe
Bernie Geoffrion
Jean Beliveau
Dickie Moore
Bobby Hull
Stan Mikita
Phil Esposito
Bobby Orr
Guy Lafleur
Bryan Trottier
Marcel Dionne
Wayne Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Jaromir Jagr
Peter Forsberg
Martin St. Louis
Joe Thornton
Sidney Crosby
Alex Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Henrik Sedin
Daniel Sedin

Bourque or Messier?

Francis? Yzerman? Stastny? Bure?

Cursed Lemon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 03:52 PM
  #2
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,477
vCash: 500
That's not a complete list of scoring title winners, it looks like a complete list of Art Ross winners, the Art Ross only being created in the late 40s.

Maurice Richard is my pick. He didn't win a scoring title, but finished 2nd 5 times, in addition to his playoff heroics. If we're not including defensemen and goalies (so no Harvey, Bourque, Roy, or Hasek), then Richard wins this question in a landslide.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 03:56 PM
  #3
Cursed Lemon
Registered Bruiser
 
Cursed Lemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Cursed Lemon
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
That's not a complete list of scoring title winners, it looks like a complete list of Art Ross winners, the Art Ross only being created in the late 40s.

Maurice Richard is my pick. He didn't win a scoring title, but finished 2nd 5 times, in addition to his playoff heroics. If we're not including defensemen and goalies (so no Harvey, Bourque, Roy, or Hasek), then Richard wins this question in a landslide.
True, it is, but I doubted that most people have the expertise/knowledge to weigh players from the 30s and backward with the players of today.

Then again, this is the HoH board.

And for some reason I completely glossed over Richard, maybe I implicitly assumed that he won a scoring title sometime.

Cursed Lemon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 04:29 PM
  #4
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,359
vCash: 500
Yeah it has to be Richard here. Finished 2nd 5 times, how about that. Twice by a single point.

After him, I guess Messier is the next best choice, no? I'm not including goalies or defensemen here.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 05:14 PM
  #5
Fred Taylor
The Cyclone
 
Fred Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,145
vCash: 500
Richard.

Fred Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #6
LeBlondeDemon10
BlindLemon Haystacks
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,176
vCash: 500
Bobby Clarke, Peter Stastny

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 05:22 PM
  #7
thom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,266
vCash: 500
Hard to believe Maurice Richard played with Beliveau Geoffrion Lach Moore all won scoring titles and Richard not one.It tell you the great offensive players he played with

thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 06:00 PM
  #8
Hot Water Bottle
a.k.a. Prawo Jazdy
 
Hot Water Bottle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,234
vCash: 500
Darryl Sittler

Hot Water Bottle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 06:35 PM
  #9
scoringking
Registered User
 
scoringking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,445
vCash: 500
Richard. 2nd five times. that sucks.

scoringking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 06:55 PM
  #10
BudMovin*
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Yeah it has to be Richard here. Finished 2nd 5 times, how about that. Twice by a single point.

After him, I guess Messier is the next best choice, no? I'm not including goalies or defensemen here.
Crazy that the 2nd most points total in a career never netted him an Art Ross. I guess playing in the same era as Mario and Wayne will do that to you.

  Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 07:01 PM
  #11
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,883
vCash: 500
How about who is the greatest defenseman never to finish 1st in Dman scoring?

Off the top of my head, it's probably between Chris Chelios and Brad Park. I'll take Chelios myself.

Hawkey Town 18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 07:25 PM
  #12
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's a list of winners:

Elmer Lach
Roy Conacher
Ted Lindsay
Gordie Howe
Bernie Geoffrion
Jean Beliveau
Dickie Moore
Bobby Hull
Stan Mikita
Phil Esposito
Bobby Orr
Guy Lafleur
Bryan Trottier
Marcel Dionne
Wayne Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Jaromir Jagr
Peter Forsberg
Martin St. Louis
Joe Thornton
Sidney Crosby
Alex Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Henrik Sedin
Daniel Sedin

Bourque or Messier?

Francis? Yzerman? Stastny? Bure?
Dmen don't count for me as they have a Norris award, it's Stevie Y for me.

Which reminds me is our Detroit booster Eva okay, haven't seen him around for a while.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 07:33 PM
  #13
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Dmen don't count for me as they have a Norris award, it's Stevie Y for me.

Which reminds me is our Detroit booster Eva okay, haven't seen him around for a while.
Yzerman over Maurice Richard?

Hawkey Town 18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 07:43 PM
  #14
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
How about who is the greatest defenseman never to finish 1st in Dman scoring?

Off the top of my head, it's probably between Chris Chelios and Brad Park. I'll take Chelios myself.
Who would be 2nd after Chelios, I wonder who comprises that list anyways?

Scott Stevens comes to mind for me.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 08:02 PM
  #15
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Who would be 2nd after Chelios, I wonder who comprises that list anyways?

Scott Stevens comes to mind for me.
Well as I said before, I think Brad Park is 2nd. After him my guesses would be Earl Seibert, Tim Horton, and Scott Stevens

Hawkey Town 18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 08:34 PM
  #16
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Well as I said before, I think Brad Park is 2nd. After him my guesses would be Earl Seibert, Tim Horton, and Scott Stevens
Is Brad Park the only defenseman to finish top 10 in overall NHL scoring (as he did in 1973-74) without leading defensemen in scoring?

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 08:47 PM
  #17
Kane One
HFB Partner
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 31,532
vCash: 2400
Add Bathgate to the list of scoring title winners. He was tied in 1962 with Bobby Hull with 84 points, but didn't win the Art Ross because the tiebreaker is goals and Hull had much more.

__________________
Kane One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 09:01 PM
  #18
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Yzerman over Maurice Richard?
Yes more complete player and he scored 155 points to the 2nd best player on the team with 93 and Steve Chiasson was the PP QB that year.

Even adjusted it's a 129 point year, just an outstanding year considering he wasn't a liability defensively.

I seriously considered him for 4th best center in the top 60 project but ended up slotting him at 5th right behind Mario.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 09:11 PM
  #19
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Yes more complete player and he scored 155 points to the 2nd best player on the team with 93 and Steve Chiasson was the PP QB that year.

Even adjusted it's a 129 point year, just an outstanding year considering he wasn't a liability defensively.

I seriously considered him for 4th best center in the top 60 project but ended up slotting him at 5th right behind Mario.
For a guy who claims to be about career value, you sure are putting a lot of stock into a single best season when it favors the more recent player (and even then, I'm not convinced that Yzerman's 1989 beats out some of Richard's best seasons).

Maurice Richard should be a darling of "career guys," considering he was a 1st or 2nd Team All-Star for 14 straight seasons - I believe, that's 3rd all-time for most All-Star nods behind Howe and Bourque.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 09:13 PM
  #20
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Yes more complete player and he scored 155 points to the 2nd best player on the team with 93 and Steve Chiasson was the PP QB that year.

Even adjusted it's a 129 point year, just an outstanding year considering he wasn't a liability defensively.
Oh yeah, I forgot...you're a big career guy...


EDIT: Rats! TDMM beat me to it!

Hawkey Town 18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 09:36 PM
  #21
mobilus
Registered User
 
mobilus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: high slot
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
Yzerman, Bossy

mobilus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 10:01 PM
  #22
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,172
vCash: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post

I seriously considered him for 4th best center in the top 60 project but ended up slotting him at 5th right behind Mario.
That's fresh. Just so i know, which players did you have in 2 and 3, Beliveau and?

Darth Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 10:21 PM
  #23
TAnnala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oulu
Country: Finland
Posts: 16,839
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Dmen don't count for me as they have a Norris award, it's Stevie Y for me.

Which reminds me is our Detroit booster Eva okay, haven't seen him around for a while.
Eva changed his forum-name a while back. Can't remember what it is these days.

I would go with Maurice Richard here. As said earlier, his All-Star selections are telling enough.
I think it wasn't so long ago when this section thought "The Rocket" as the 5th best player ever.

TAnnala is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-19-2013, 12:46 AM
  #24
unknown33
Registered User
 
unknown33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Europe
Country: Marshall Islands
Posts: 3,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
he scored 155 points to the 2nd best player on the team with 93 and Steve Chiasson was the PP QB that year.

I seriously considered him for 4th best center in the top 60 project but ended up slotting him at 5th right behind Mario.
Is this only amusing to me?

unknown33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-19-2013, 12:55 AM
  #25
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown33 View Post
Is this only amusing to me?
Oh, ranking Yzerman higher than anyone else because he scored a lot of points on a bad team, but then ranking Lemieux lower than anyone else? Heh.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.