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Old
08-17-2013, 07:10 PM
  #1
Lawson624
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Smid

I know that edmonton most likely wouldn't trade him unless for an upgrade on D but its summer so what would you pay to get a top 4 shutdown in his prime for 4 years at 3.5?

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08-17-2013, 07:20 PM
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settinguptheplay
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Never understood the "won't be traded" but what is his value threads. Basically what this is saying is that he is more valuable to the Oiler's than his trade value is worth. Hence every offer will feel like a low ball offer and arguments and insults will begin.

That said...

Vancouver

Smid


Edmonton

Tanev
2nd

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Old
08-17-2013, 07:34 PM
  #3
Lawson624
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Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
Never understood the "won't be traded" but what is his value threads. Basically what this is saying is that he is more valuable to the Oiler's than his trade value is worth. Hence every offer will feel like a low ball offer and arguments and insults will begin.

That said...

Vancouver

Smid


Edmonton

Tanev
2nd
What I meant was he would be traded if there was a defencemen coming back that is better which would mean oilers added to smid or vice versa if it was a worse player coming back. So if there's a trade that makes the oilers a better team I would do it

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08-17-2013, 08:07 PM
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Oilers88
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Originally Posted by Lawson624 View Post
I know that edmonton most likely wouldn't trade him unless for an upgrade on D but its summer so what would you pay to get a top 4 shutdown in his prime for 4 years at 3.5?
I don't think he'll be traded soon, but the Oilers have Klefbom, Nurse and Marincin as our top three prospects, who are probably somewhere from 1-3 years away from pushing for an NHL roster spot (Klefbom obviously being the closest, with Nurse and Marincin closer to 3 years away).

Add to that the fact that the Oilers seem to still be looking for someone at the top end of their blueline, the fact that Ference has a NTC, and that Smid is at a distinct disadvantage based on lack of puck skill (something MacT clearly values), and I could definitely see Smid being available over the next year or two.

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08-17-2013, 08:32 PM
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jumptheshark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
Never understood the "won't be traded" but what is his value threads. Basically what this is saying is that he is more valuable to the Oiler's than his trade value is worth. Hence every offer will feel like a low ball offer and arguments and insults will begin.

That said...

Vancouver

Smid


Edmonton

Tanev
2nd
U r greatly over valueing tanev

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08-17-2013, 08:36 PM
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Smid is one of the more underrated defenders around. I was actually surprised that Edm did not have to pay more to retain him.

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08-17-2013, 08:39 PM
  #7
Lawson624
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Smid is one of the more underrated defenders around. I was actually surprised that Edm did not have to pay more to retain him.
I totally agree was very surprised that we got him at 3.5 for 4 years I thought it would be 3.75-4.25 for 2 years

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08-17-2013, 08:43 PM
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iane
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Smid is one of the more underrated defenders around. I was actually surprised that Edm did not have to pay more to retain him.
I think he loves Edmonton, he obviously took a significant discount to stay there, seems like a great locker room guy too.

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08-17-2013, 08:54 PM
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Lonewolfe2015
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I still think in UFA he would have grabbed almost five mil.

Wouldn't be totally adverse to a deal around Smid+ for ROR.

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08-17-2013, 09:48 PM
  #10
haterbehatin
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Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
Never understood the "won't be traded" but what is his value threads. Basically what this is saying is that he is more valuable to the Oiler's than his trade value is worth. Hence every offer will feel like a low ball offer and arguments and insults will begin.

That said...

Vancouver

Smid


Edmonton

Tanev
2nd
I don't like this because you were a voice of reason and then proceeded to do exactly what you warned against. Made a terrible low ball offer that will only insult Oiler fans.

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08-17-2013, 09:50 PM
  #11
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Donno what the value is for Smid... but I think the only situation I can see the Oilers moving him is if it is Smid+ for someone better. Donno who that would be, or what that + would be... but otherwise his value is hard to gauge because he has such an important role for the Oilers.

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08-17-2013, 10:13 PM
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Just can't see us moving the guy. He showed commitment to the team by leaving money on the table, not to mention we can't afford to move our best defenceman unless a better defenceman is coming back. Even then, I don't know if I'd want to part with a character guy like that. Means too much to our team.

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08-17-2013, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I still think in UFA he would have grabbed almost five mil.

Wouldn't be totally adverse to a deal around Smid+ for ROR.

Oilers fan here. Smid is really good and all but that plus would be too much. Reilly is worth much more than Smid at this point in time.

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08-17-2013, 11:13 PM
  #14
Matt Ryan
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Smid for Plekanec?

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08-17-2013, 11:25 PM
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Smid for Plekanec?
Plekanec would be a welcome addition to the Oilers. I'm not sure adding more salary for the Oilers would be the best idea.

Probably better to keep Smid and his relatively friendly cap hit. I'd hate to add Plekanec and end up having to move him or even one of the kids to find the space to sign RNH et al next summer if the cap doesn't explode.

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08-17-2013, 11:39 PM
  #16
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Smid is on a bargain contract, I don't see why the Oilers would want to move him. Get rid of Nick Schultz.

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Old
08-17-2013, 11:43 PM
  #17
ChaoticOrange
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Smid for Plekanec?
Intriguing. Make this offer again in a year or two.

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Old
08-18-2013, 12:10 AM
  #18
thadd
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He's pretty much off of the trade table for anything baring an insanely stupid offer this season, but 2 seasons from now might be different.

We've got WAY too many quality left handed d prospects in the system. (Klefbom, Nurse, Marincin, Musil and Gernat.)

Not so many right handed guys and that makes Smid's partner Petry the guy who isn't going anywhere long term.

I could see Edmonton trading away Smid for exactly what Edmonton needs: Bottom six depth. Maybe Smid + a bottom 6 winger for an elite checking line center and another checking line LW who's very hard to play against.

Who knows. Maybe Edmonton will go out and get a scary good bottom six center in the next off-season via free agency and then the price would get even stranger.

The main point is that Smid can't be traded now. Our blueline depth has hurt us badly in the past and we're finally looking decent with Smid, Ference and Nick Schultz on the left side this year. Phillip Larsen and Denis Grebeskov are going to fight for his job, but I doubt they'll win it. I figure Grebeskov will end up being our #7 d-man. I think Oil fans are very happy with Petry and Justin Scultz on the right side, but past that we've got Potter and Belov fighting for a job.

We can't afford to cough up Smid, so his price to Edmonton would be very high.

After next season you've gotta assume that Nick Schultz and his 3.5M cap his is out of the door and that'll make way for either Marincin or Klefbom. Assuming Klefbom's development goes very well Smid would be tradable in the 14/15 season, but it's really risky to trade Smid before the 15/16 season.

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08-18-2013, 12:28 AM
  #19
Vatican Roulette
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post

I could see Edmonton trading away Smid for exactly what Edmonton needs: Bottom six depth. Maybe Smid + a bottom 6 winger for an elite checking line center and another checking line LW who's very hard to play against.

Who knows. Maybe Edmonton will go out and get a scary good bottom six center in the next off-season via free agency...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Gordon that that elite level checking center that Edmonton needs?

Also, the Oilers would be stupid, IMO, to trade Smid for checking line depth.

If Edmonton wants a checking line winger, or center for that matter, call Detroit. Eaves, Tootoo, Emmerton all available, and they get to keep Smid.

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08-18-2013, 12:29 AM
  #20
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Smid for Plekanec?
That's a reasonable offer, Plekanec has a hefty salary but I would think about it for sure

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08-18-2013, 12:32 AM
  #21
settinguptheplay
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U r greatly over valueing tanev
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Originally Posted by haterbehatin View Post
I don't like this because you were a voice of reason and then proceeded to do exactly what you warned against. Made a terrible low ball offer that will only insult Oiler fans.
As I said. No matter the offer someone is going to feel it is not fair and around and around we go.

So lets break it down.

First off Smid is a better Dman than Tanev. No one will disagree with that. That said Smid has no offensive upside to speak of. Infact Tanev had more goals and points than Smid in 10 less games and 3 less minutes per game. Tanev for the most part is ridiculed for his lack of offense. So if Tanev's offense is poor what does that make Smid's? Point being that offensively Smid has zero value. No to mention Tanev is also 4 years younger and has some upside left. Smid for the most part has peaked.

So now we are down to a pure shut down dman. On the Canucks he would be 3rd pairing. Anyone would have a uphill battle to justify Smid over Bieksa, Edler, Garrison or Hamhuis. So how much value would a 3rd pairing shutdown dman have to the Canucks?

So you can say I over value Tanev. Which may be the case. But then I didn't offer just Tanev. A 2nd pick does have value. Plus the fact that Tanev still has development years ahead of him. Tanev is just as good if not a better dman than Smid was 4 seasons ago.

Basically the 2 quoted posts just prove what I said in the first place. Smid has more value to the Oilers then any other team in the NHL. So now I ask you... What in your opinion is Smids value compared to the Canucks roster?

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08-18-2013, 12:43 AM
  #22
thadd
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Gordon that that elite level checking center that Edmonton needs?

Also, the Oilers would be stupid, IMO, to trade Smid for checking line depth.

If Edmonton wants a checking line winger, or center for that matter, call Detroit. Eaves, Tootoo, Emmerton all available, and they get to keep Smid.
Don't get me wrong, I think that Gordon was a great signing... but I'm not totally sold yet. There are very few guys who play for Phoenix who I'd expect to play as well or better than they do now. (OEL, Yandle and MAYBE Hanzal.)

The system they implement does a great job of protecting the goalie and they've got a backwards way of producing offense at times.

I can remember landing Belanger thinking "OK, he can score that much with Phoenix... you'd think he'd be good for 8-10 more points than usual playing in Edmonton's system. There was nothing wrong with Belanger's play when he came to Edmonton. He just thrived in Phoenix's system. Last year was an exception, though. He was a lazy turd.

Gordon's offensive skills (or lack there of) scare me. He'll be playing with Hemsky and Jones. I imagine they'll expect him to be much like Horcoff. Win faceoffs, pressure the puck carrier and don't get caught out of position. I'm sure he'll do that very well, but in the instance that Gagner or Hopkins go down for a few games he won't have the offense to fill in which means either 2 things:

1: He'll be playing with Hall and Eberle. Playing way more minutes than he's used to and Hall and Eberle will have to work some seriously sick magic to get through those games.

2: We'll be calling up someone from the AHL. Someone whom I do not have faith in. Mark Arcobello. He's so damn small that the average man could trip over him by accident.

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08-18-2013, 12:53 AM
  #23
haterbehatin
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Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
As I said. No matter the offer someone is going to feel it is not fair and around and around we go.

So lets break it down.

First off Smid is a better Dman than Tanev. No one will disagree with that. That said Smid has no offensive upside to speak of. Infact Tanev had more goals and points than Smid in 10 less games and 3 less minutes per game. Tanev for the most part is ridiculed for his lack of offense. So if Tanev's offense is poor what does that make Smid's? Point being that offensively Smid has zero value. No to mention Tanev is also 4 years younger and has some upside left. Smid for the most part has peaked.

So now we are down to a pure shut down dman. On the Canucks he would be 3rd pairing. Anyone would have a uphill battle to justify Smid over Bieksa, Edler, Garrison or Hamhuis. So how much value would a 3rd pairing shutdown dman have to the Canucks?

So you can say I over value Tanev. Which may be the case. But then I didn't offer just Tanev. A 2nd pick does have value. Plus the fact that Tanev still has development years ahead of him. Tanev is just as good if not a better dman than Smid was 4 seasons ago.

Basically the 2 quoted posts just prove what I said in the first place. Smid has more value to the Oilers then any other team in the NHL. So now I ask you... What in your opinion is Smids value compared to the Canucks roster?
Going off your evaluation which I have no real reason to disagree with I think it was reasonably fair. The canucks shouldn't deal for him why pay that much for a shut down guy ( I think Smid has a bit more offense than you credit him but it's irrelevant).

Valuing from Vancouver is hard because the players of use to Edmonton Van wants to keep (Kesler, Kassian etc).

Tanev and a second have little value to Edmonton because you're asking for their top shutdown defenseman who a guy who likely slots behind Petry and J Schultz and although he has some upside and is an NHL player right now he has a realistic shot of being passed by a number of Oiler prospects in the near future.

Essentially what you're asking is if they'll trade one of the two most important defenseman on the team for a guy who will be battling to be one of the least important players of the defense and a second round pick.

Tanev is just a bad fit because he's another solid/middle of the road guy with an outside chance of possibly being an important player.

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08-18-2013, 12:55 AM
  #24
Vatican Roulette
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Don't get me wrong, I think that Gordon was a great signing... but I'm not totally sold yet. There are very few guys who play for Phoenix who I'd expect to play as well or better than they do now. (OEL, Yandle and MAYBE Hanzal.)

The system they implement does a great job of protecting the goalie and they've got a backwards way of producing offense at times.

I can remember landing Belanger thinking "OK, he can score that much with Phoenix... you'd think he'd be good for 8-10 more points than usual playing in Edmonton's system. There was nothing wrong with Belanger's play when he came to Edmonton. He just thrived in Phoenix's system. Last year was an exception, though. He was a lazy turd.

Gordon's offensive skills (or lack there of) scare me. He'll be playing with Hemsky and Jones. I imagine they'll expect him to be much like Horcoff. Win faceoffs, pressure the puck carrier and don't get caught out of position. I'm sure he'll do that very well, but in the instance that Gagner or Hopkins go down for a few games he won't have the offense to fill in which means either 2 things:

1: He'll be playing with Hall and Eberle. Playing way more minutes than he's used to and Hall and Eberle will have to work some seriously sick magic to get through those games.

2: We'll be calling up someone from the AHL. Someone whom I do not have faith in. Mark Arcobello. He's so damn small that the average man could trip over him by accident.
Understandable, but most teams don't have the depth to cover if a top 6 center goes down with and injury. Trading Smid for that insurance wouldn't be all that wise.

Plus, and not to sound rude, but Edmonton isn't(yet) in a contenders position, but Smid is going to be one of those players to get them there.

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08-18-2013, 01:15 AM
  #25
LatvianTwist
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If they didn't invest so much money into Gagner, I could've seen the Oilers moving Smid for a guy like Plekanec or O'Reilly, as mentioned above. Would've been a good fit for both teams.

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