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2013-14 Free Agent, Trades, and Proposals (including Leafs Props)

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10-07-2013, 07:58 PM
  #926
highslot
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Originally Posted by Larcos_Unal View Post

so you are saying that mackinnon, who hasn't even played a full season has more upside than gardiner? not projected, but right now? i also said more than gardiner.

gardiner has shown he will become a top pairing offensive defenseman in the league and has played against nhl caliber teams and in the playoffs.

mac k? all speculation until he plays a full season, he may not even be a 1c let alone a superstar in the mold of crosby, malkin, stamkos. it wouldn't suprise me if he was more like a hemsky or eberle in terms of offense. also, it's not like he's on first line right now.

also, who's to say that gardiner won't become all star level? i don't think he will, but if he does get to a norris candidate level, would it be a fair swap then, considering that elite puck moving d are more rare than first line (maybe) forwards?

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10-07-2013, 08:03 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by highslot View Post
so you are saying that mackinnon, who hasn't even played a full season has more upside than gardiner? not projected, but right now? i also said more than gardiner.

gardiner has shown he will become a top pairing offensive defenseman in the league and has played against nhl caliber teams and in the playoffs.

mac k? all speculation until he plays a full season, he may not even be a 1c let alone a superstar in the mold of crosby, malkin, stamkos. it wouldn't suprise me if he was more like a hemsky or eberle in terms of offense. also, it's not like he's on first line right now.

also, who's to say that gardiner won't become all star level? i don't think he will, but if he does get to a norris candidate level, would it be a fair swap then, considering that elite puck moving d are more rare than first line (maybe) forwards?
I am sorry, but you really should take a step back when you say this.

There is a reason why Mackinnion went 1st overall. He will be an elite talent in the NHL. If anyone posted this on the main boards they would get ripped apart and rightfully so.

Not to mention it would take more than just Gardiner to get Mackinnion anyways, and Gardiner is by no fashion elite. He has the potential to be but as of right now he is not and is a ways to go.

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10-07-2013, 08:14 PM
  #928
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Here we go...I know that Bozak isn't going anywhere this year.

Couturier, Coburn and Mason for Bozak, Gardiner and Reimer.

We get a guy who can compete with Kadri in Couturier without giving up the defence that Bozak provides. A big defence first Dman (I know L shot) and a backup.

They get an elite 3C, Streit's replacement and a #1G.

The best thing is that there is only $50K difference in Cap.

Edit: I think that we might have to add a bit on second thought. Couts is cheep for 3 years and still an RFA after that.


Last edited by namttebih: 10-07-2013 at 08:31 PM.
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10-07-2013, 08:16 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by highslot View Post
so you are saying that mackinnon, who hasn't even played a full season has more upside than gardiner? not projected, but right now? i also said more than gardiner.

gardiner has shown he will become a top pairing offensive defenseman in the league and has played against nhl caliber teams and in the playoffs.
?
So its fair for you to project potential on top of Gardiners career high of 30 points to the point that he WILL be a top pairing offensive dman (~45-55+ points), but its not fair to project anything at all out of MacKinnon?

MacKinnon is considered to have way more upside than Gardiner. Pretending otherwise is straight up bias.

And if youre trying to isolate an argument based off of what theyve PROVEN at the NHL level... Then after removing projections/potential, Gardiner has only PROVEN himself to be an inconsistent secondary offensive threat from the blueline with holes in his defensive game.

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10-07-2013, 08:26 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by highslot View Post
so you are saying that mackinnon, who hasn't even played a full season has more upside than gardiner? not projected, but right now? i also said more than gardiner.

gardiner has shown he will become a top pairing offensive defenseman in the league and has played against nhl caliber teams and in the playoffs.

mac k? all speculation until he plays a full season, he may not even be a 1c let alone a superstar in the mold of crosby, malkin, stamkos. it wouldn't suprise me if he was more like a hemsky or eberle in terms of offense. also, it's not like he's on first line right now.

also, who's to say that gardiner won't become all star level? i don't think he will, but if he does get to a norris candidate level, would it be a fair swap then, considering that elite puck moving d are more rare than first line (maybe) forwards?
Speculation or not, his value is way higher than Gards

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10-07-2013, 08:26 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Jacob8hockey View Post
I am sorry, but you really should take a step back when you say this.

There is a reason why Mackinnion went 1st overall. He will be an elite talent in the NHL. If anyone posted this on the main boards they would get ripped apart and rightfully so.

Not to mention it would take more than just Gardiner to get Mackinnion anyways, and Gardiner is by no fashion elite. He has the potential to be but as of right now he is not and is a ways to go.
if you read my post, i said gardiner +(which means it would take gardiner and something else), which means that mackinnon is valued more.

however, even they'd rip me apart on the main boards, they have nothing to back it up because he hasn't played a full nhl season. so, no proof, just emotion. i'm not saying he won't be a star, i'm saying everything is based on potential right now.

do you think he's the next sid?

they've been saying 'then next one' even before tavares, and up next is connor. etc.

however, imo, the only ones who are even close to sid since he was playing were ovie, stamkos, giroux, malkin. that's it and even then, they are a step behind overall. macK, has shown he can dominate at the junior level so far.

gardiner has shown the talent at the nhl level both in points and playing time.

i agree that he's not an elite d now, but saying that his potential might be an elite d is the same argument as saying mackinnon will be a superstar, because the reasoning is based on opinion, not games played.

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10-07-2013, 08:31 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
So its fair for you to project potential on top of Gardiners career high of 30 points to the point that he WILL be a top pairing offensive dman (~45-55+ points), but its not fair to project anything at all out of MacKinnon?

MacKinnon is considered to have way more upside than Gardiner. Pretending otherwise is straight up bias.

And if youre trying to isolate an argument based off of what theyve PROVEN at the NHL level... Then after removing projections/potential, Gardiner has only PROVEN himself to be an inconsistent secondary offensive threat from the blueline with holes in his defensive game.
fair enough. i know macK is considered to have way more upside by the scouts and of course projections can be made. do you see that i'm basing my projection on nhl games played and not junior though?

though around 30 points with limited playing time is nothing to sneer at. i'm confident he will hit 50 points as a defensemen if he gets first line minutes, especially on this team with jvr, kessel, kadri, lupul.

i agree he has holes in his defensive game as well and has a ways to go. he's not d1 yet. still, it's been a while since i've seen a leaf defenseman and few d in the league control the pace and the puck the way he does. it's almost like having kessel back there, when he moves the puck up.


Last edited by highslot: 10-07-2013 at 08:38 PM.
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Old
10-07-2013, 09:07 PM
  #933
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Here we go...I know that Bozak isn't going anywhere this year.

Couturier, Coburn and Mason for Bozak, Gardiner and Reimer.

We get a guy who can compete with Kadri in Couturier without giving up the defence that Bozak provides. A big defence first Dman (I know L shot) and a backup.

They get an elite 3C, Streit's replacement and a #1G.

The best thing is that there is only $50K difference in Cap.

Edit: I think that we might have to add a bit on second thought. Couts is cheep for 3 years and still an RFA after that.
Gardiner is already overpayment for 3 spare parts. I don't think Leafs need 3 for 3 or 1 for 3 deal. We need to trade our dept specifically at D where Persy and MR are knocking at the door for _substantial_ upgrade at center. We need 3 for 1 deals.

If Couturier is that good let them keep him. Vinny is there for a long time and Phili needs D, so Holmgren could do something similar to Richards/Carter deals.

Percy, Blacker, Kadri + 1st for Giroux.

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10-07-2013, 09:13 PM
  #934
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Gardiner is already overpayment for 3 spare parts. I don't think Leafs need 3 for 3 or 1 for 3 deal. We need to trade our dept specifically at D where Persy and MR are knocking at the door for _substantial_ upgrade at center. We need 3 for 1 deals.

If Couturier is that good let them keep him. Vinny is there for a long time and Phili needs D, so Holmgren could do something similar to Richards/Carter deals.

Percy, Blacker, Kadri + 1st for Giroux.
Come on man, the two skaters are no more spare parts then the Leafs that I listed. If I posted that on the main boards it would be Boz and Reims that would be classified as the spare parts, maybe even Gards. They have value and would improve our team over the next couple of years.

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10-07-2013, 09:16 PM
  #935
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14. There is definitely some level of conversation going on between other teams and Toronto involving Jake Gardiner. I despise the word "shopped," as it's more like a feeling-out process. If the Maple Leafs do decide to do it, it's going to be for a young asset or assets. So, you have to look at teams with talented young players. This is PURELY my speculation, but if teams like Dallas, Florida or Minnesota would be interested, you could see a match.

Again, like Friedman said about PURE SPECULATION but what about either Granlund or Coyle for Gardiner?

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10-07-2013, 09:22 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Jacob8hockey View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hoc...spotlight.html

14. There is definitely some level of conversation going on between other teams and Toronto involving Jake Gardiner. I despise the word "shopped," as it's more like a feeling-out process. If the Maple Leafs do decide to do it, it's going to be for a young asset or assets. So, you have to look at teams with talented young players. This is PURELY my speculation, but if teams like Dallas, Florida or Minnesota would be interested, you could see a match.

Again, like Friedman said about PURE SPECULATION but what about either Granlund or Coyle for Gardiner?
The reason I have trouble seeing us trade Gardiner is because it is on defense that we need help the most. So if we trade him, I would hope it would be for another defensemen, but not sure what teams would be looking to do that. Names that come to mind that MAY be available, not even sure if I would want to do a trade, would be Myers and Hedman.


Of course another possibility with this whole thing is that his name is currently only out there trying to light a fire under his ass and get him going.

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10-07-2013, 09:22 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Jacob8hockey View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hoc...spotlight.html

14. There is definitely some level of conversation going on between other teams and Toronto involving Jake Gardiner. I despise the word "shopped," as it's more like a feeling-out process. If the Maple Leafs do decide to do it, it's going to be for a young asset or assets. So, you have to look at teams with talented young players. This is PURELY my speculation, but if teams like Dallas, Florida or Minnesota would be interested, you could see a match.

Again, like Friedman said about PURE SPECULATION but what about either Granlund or Coyle for Gardiner?
Yup, they are intriguing pieces, and Faksa, Bjugstad from Dallas and Florida as well. We will see what happens, it's not like the other Leaf dmen have been better than him through 3 games (except for Phaneuf ofcourse). Way too early in the season.

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10-07-2013, 09:26 PM
  #938
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With all the depth on D in our prospects pool and on the Marlies, we can make one or two prospect swap (D for F). Which forward prospect would be realistic for Blacker and/or Holzer.

Leblanc, Nemisz, Glennie are players that come to mind.

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10-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Jacob8hockey View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hoc...spotlight.html

14. There is definitely some level of conversation going on between other teams and Toronto involving Jake Gardiner. I despise the word "shopped," as it's more like a feeling-out process. If the Maple Leafs do decide to do it, it's going to be for a young asset or assets. So, you have to look at teams with talented young players. This is PURELY my speculation, but if teams like Dallas, Florida or Minnesota would be interested, you could see a match.

Again, like Friedman said about PURE SPECULATION but what about either Granlund or Coyle for Gardiner?
I think these rumours spring up because he is struggling this year but who knows, it would have to be a really great offer to move him.

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10-07-2013, 09:34 PM
  #940
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And for Gardiner, no way to trade him. We should really keep him, if I was the GM he would be close to untouchable. He's a great young defenseman with an awesome potential. Big fan and really high on him.

But if we trade him, the players I'd like are Couturier, Grigorenko, Coyle, Gudbranson, Eberle, O'Reilly, Strome, Scheifele, Monahan/Poirier+, Chiasson/Ritchie+, Zibanejad+, Domi+/Samuelsson+Stone+, Killorn+, etc. Nothing less.

Still, build around him, do not trade him.


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10-07-2013, 09:48 PM
  #941
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I'm thinking caryle would love to get his hands on 6'5 gudbranson, or E.Johnson.

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10-07-2013, 09:49 PM
  #942
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I'd be very wary of trading Gardiner. Don't like our track record of trading young players. Would have to be a overpayment.

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10-07-2013, 10:13 PM
  #943
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As someone said before I like a deal sounding something like this:

Philly:
Bozak
Reimer
Gardiner

Toronto
Couterier
Couburn
Mason/emery

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10-07-2013, 10:14 PM
  #944
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I dont mind trading away colbornes, holzers, carricks...

I hate trading away gardiners. If nonis does this, I want the center position to be fixed longterm.

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10-07-2013, 10:21 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
As someone said before I like a deal sounding something like this:

Philly:
Bozak
Reimer
Gardiner

Toronto
Couterier
Couburn
Mason/emery
Grass isn't always greener on the other side. Just ask Holmgren.

Gardiner is the best young player in the deal, Reimer is the best goalie, and Bozak right now is a fantastic 2 way C, faceoff specialist. If we did the above deal, we'd be opening up way more holes than we'd be filling.

Also, we don't need Coburn. We need a legit #1 C, or a Legit #2 defenseman. We don't need anything in between, we have lots of those as it is.

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10-07-2013, 10:27 PM
  #946
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I think we'd be better off just keeping Gardiner and letting Kadri develop into the #1C we need.

Also don't think we trade Reimer until Bernier proves himself to be a legit starter. He's been lights out so far but come on now, it's been 4 periods

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10-07-2013, 10:32 PM
  #947
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To San Jose: Gardiner

To Toronto: Tomas Hertl

Quote:
31. Tomas Hertl, C San Jose Sharks
Height: 6-2, Weight: 198, Spring ranking 35

Hertl is an excellent two-way forward with a blue collar work ethic and a lot of skill. He thrives along the boards with his size and strength, and can be a difficult opponent in one-on-one battles. His physical game is quite mature having played against men for all of last season, and he is not going to shy away from the tough stuff, perhaps to a fault. Given his supporting cast, and the likelihood that he will play on a scoring line in San Jose, Hertl has a real shot at carving out a name for himself in his rookie season and should be considered a dark horse for the Calder Trophy.
Sounds like just the player Caryle would want. BUT I think the price would be higher than just Gardiner.

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10-07-2013, 10:36 PM
  #948
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To San Jose: Gardiner

To Toronto: Tomas Hertl



Sounds like just the player Caryle would want. BUT I think the price would be higher than just Gardiner.
I know San Jose fans love this guy, so I'm assuming he probably would cost more (haven't seen him play). But it is an interesting idea. San Jose gets a possible Boyle replacement in Gardiner at the cost of Hertl, but they do still have Couture and Pavelski down the middle for the next 6 years.

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10-07-2013, 10:38 PM
  #949
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1. Gardiner plays great in playoffs
2. Carlyle criticizes Gardiner in preseason
3. Other GM calls Nonis about Gardiner

= "leafs exploring trading Gardiner"

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10-07-2013, 10:43 PM
  #950
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Not going to get into the trade aspect of this but quoted is so wrong, I don't know where to start. Either you think those guys are going to make around 1.5 million each or you think the cap is going down. (Which it's not). I wish people would understand that the cap is going to rise.



Why dont you read my whole post before spouting nonsense. I know the cap is going to rise einstein.

MY point was we have gardiner on an elc contract and which right now is 875K.

WE only have to qualify him at around 1M.

ROR from avalanche who people wanted to trade gardiner for has a qualifying offer of 6.5M

If my math is correct thats a 5M cap difference.

The cap is at 64M this year and i realize the cap will go up so lets say it
goes up to 70M thats a 6M increase.

So if we are paying ROR 5M of that 6M to play for us

again I ask Where is the money coming from to sign the players i mentioned!!!!

is that so hard to understand

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