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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part VII)

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Old
08-26-2013, 07:41 AM
  #26
bucks_oil
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
They both should. Where I disagree with Oilers fans is that RNH has any chance of making this team.


.......
I really don't think Lucic should be on this team.
I agree with you on the above. RNH is going to be on the 2018 Olympic team, of that much I am certain, but there is almost no way he even gets a sniff this time around. That grasshopper has a long way to go.

As for Lucic, I agree, but only due to the international ice surface. One thing I am concerned about though is our overall level of team toughness. If Marchand is on the team, who is going to cash the cheques he writes? (as the expression goes). Perhaps Iginla or Doan make it in a 4th line role just to keep some grit in the lineup?

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Old
08-26-2013, 08:36 AM
  #27
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Both statements are accurate, you do have a second or two longer to make a play, but from a tactical point of view, it is a mistake to take that second or two... is what I thought he meant by it, the pace of the game we want to play shouldn't change just because there is that added second to make a decision...
Its also interesting how Babcock essentially stated that they'll load up on their best players, whether they be centers or wingers, and let them play all over the ice "like we do in Detroit", which is contradictory to Yzerman's previous statements about preferring to not have too many players play out of position.

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08-26-2013, 08:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
I agree with you on the above. RNH is going to be on the 2018 Olympic team, of that much I am certain, but there is almost no way he even gets a sniff this time around. That grasshopper has a long way to go.

As for Lucic, I agree, but only due to the international ice surface. One thing I am concerned about though is our overall level of team toughness. If Marchand is on the team, who is going to cash the cheques he writes? (as the expression goes). Perhaps Iginla or Doan make it in a 4th line role just to keep some grit in the lineup?
Team toughness isn't really an issue. There is no fighting in international hockey and there aren't any other teams in the tournament stacked with goons anyway. There also will be more than enough toughness from guys who actually deserve to be on the team (Thornton, Getzlaf, Weber etc.).

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Old
08-26-2013, 08:59 AM
  #29
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Its also interesting how Babcock essentially stated that they'll load up on their best players, whether they be centers or wingers, and let them play all over the ice "like we do in Detroit", which is contradictory to Yzerman's previous statements about preferring to not have too many players play out of position.
Well, E. Staal although a center, if he plays on the wing is he really that much out of position? He has elite level experience playing the wing and has proven he can adapt. What I infer by "not having players play out of position" is a player who has no experience playing that position being asked, 'ok, you've never played wing before, but I'm putting you on the wing, so go do it'

as Ray Ferarro said yesterday..at a WHC he was moved to the wing although he never played a minute there in his life up until then... That's a bit too much to ask.

I like Yzerman's approach of players playing in their position and an NHL rink forgives a lot of those player decisions, but on international ice... If it is a choice of E. Staal (excellent skater) playing the wing over a natural winger (poor skater) I'm moving the center to the wing every time on international ice.

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08-26-2013, 09:12 AM
  #30
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Well, E. Staal although a center, if he plays on the wing is he really that much out of position? He has elite level experience playing the wing and has proven he can adapt. What I infer by "not having players play out of position" is a player who has no experience playing that position being asked, 'ok, you've never played wing before, but I'm putting you on the wing, so go do it'

as Ray Ferarro said yesterday..at a WHC he was moved to the wing although he never played a minute there in his life up until then... That's a bit too much to ask.

I like Yzerman's approach of players playing in their position and an NHL rink forgives a lot of those player decisions, but on international ice... If it is a choice of E. Staal (excellent skater) playing the wing over a natural winger (poor skater) I'm moving the center to the wing every time on international ice.
And I think the same thought process would apply to Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares, Bergeron, M Richards, and Carter (in addition to Eric Staal). To my knowledge all have played wing either internationally or in the NHL. On the current team I put together I have 3 natural wingers (St. Louis, Nash, Sharp), and my other wing positions are filled in with the other players noted above. I guess, to concur with Babcock, I don't see a need to take a "lesser" player if a convertible center is still available.

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08-26-2013, 09:23 AM
  #31
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And I think the same thought process would apply to Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares, Bergeron, M Richards, and Carter (in addition to Eric Staal). To my knowledge all have played wing either internationally or in the NHL. On the current team I put together I have 3 natural wingers (St. Louis, Nash, Sharp), and my other wing positions are filled in with the other players noted above. I guess, to concur with Babcock, I don't see a need to take a "lesser" player if a convertible center is still available.
That would be my M.O. for sure, if the option is there, then that's the way to go! You win with your best on the ice or lose with your best...if E. Staal is a better option at LW then say J. Benn...(just for the sake of argument and not making a statement) then I'm taking Staal.

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08-26-2013, 09:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
That would be my M.O. for sure, if the option is there, then that's the way to go! You win with your best on the ice or lose with your best...if E. Staal is a better option at LW then say J. Benn...(just for the sake of argument and not making a statement) then I'm taking Staal.
Taking a look at all of the projected players, TC looks like they are gearing the team towards puck possession. They won't be able to exert their muscle like on the smaller ice, so it makes sense to play keep away and control the play that way. Win the SOG battle and percentages are high that they'll outscore the opposing team. Having multiple centers also helps in the faceoff circle, another big plus. It's smart to just bring your best skill sets regardless of position if they fit the team concept.

As mentioned by the other poster, a lot of the centers projected to wing all have had experience playing there and at a high level in the past. They won't be thrown to the wolves unprepared. Sucks to be a Canadian winger, that competition for limited spots should be the most compelling 'battle' in all of this.

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08-26-2013, 09:40 AM
  #33
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I agree with you on the above. RNH is going to be on the 2018 Olympic team, of that much I am certain, but there is almost no way he even gets a sniff this time around. That grasshopper has a long way to go.

As for Lucic, I agree, but only due to the international ice surface. One thing I am concerned about though is our overall level of team toughness. If Marchand is on the team, who is going to cash the cheques he writes? (as the expression goes). Perhaps Iginla or Doan make it in a 4th line role just to keep some grit in the lineup?
Shane Doan would be a hilariously poor choice for the 2014 (he was a very poor choice in 2006 too, IMO), and Iginla, as much as I respect the guy, wouldn't be much better. In the past Canada found success at the old Canada / World Cups (which were all on NHL-sized ice surfaces, BTW) by loading up on grinders, defensive players, and good two-way guys and simply bludgeoning the opposition. Some people have it in their mind that this "Canadian style" still works internationally, but it doesn't. The OGs are played under IIHF rules, with IIHF referees, on a larger playing surface. None of the other teams will put any sort of premium on grit or toughness, and we shouldn't either. Sure, a few guys need to be there to kill penalties, and it won't hurt to have some size, but the international game is not one that the likes of Perry, Lucic, Doan, or Iginla (at this point in his career) will really thrive in.

And honestly, as a guy who played quite a bit of defence in my younger days, I'd fear someone like Bergeron or Toews coming in on me on the forecheck much more than someone like Lucic; they're not as physical, but they simply don't lose puck battles in the corners or along the boards, are perfect positionally at all times, and are IMHO much more difficult to play against. Not sure if that fits into the typical definition of toughness/grit, but it should.

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08-26-2013, 11:12 AM
  #34
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Taking a look at all of the projected players, TC looks like they are gearing the team towards puck possession. They won't be able to exert their muscle like on the smaller ice, so it makes sense to play keep away and control the play that way. Win the SOG battle and percentages are high that they'll outscore the opposing team. Having multiple centers also helps in the faceoff circle, another big plus. It's smart to just bring your best skill sets regardless of position if they fit the team concept.

As mentioned by the other poster, a lot of the centers projected to wing all have had experience playing there and at a high level in the past. They won't be thrown to the wolves unprepared. Sucks to be a Canadian winger, that competition for limited spots should be the most compelling 'battle' in all of this.
Even more so if you are a winger lacking foot speed and not a whole lot of smarts to play a big ice game.

Can't wait to get this season started... NHL and my Wednesday night beer league.

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Old
08-26-2013, 11:56 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Shane Doan would be a hilariously poor choice for the 2014 (he was a very poor choice in 2006 too, IMO), and Iginla, as much as I respect the guy, wouldn't be much better. In the past Canada found success at the old Canada / World Cups (which were all on NHL-sized ice surfaces, BTW) by loading up on grinders, defensive players, and good two-way guys and simply bludgeoning the opposition. Some people have it in their mind that this "Canadian style" still works internationally, but it doesn't. The OGs are played under IIHF rules, with IIHF referees, on a larger playing surface. None of the other teams will put any sort of premium on grit or toughness, and we shouldn't either. Sure, a few guys need to be there to kill penalties, and it won't hurt to have some size, but the international game is not one that the likes of Perry, Lucic, Doan, or Iginla (at this point in his career) will really thrive in.

And honestly, as a guy who played quite a bit of defence in my younger days, I'd fear someone like Bergeron or Toews coming in on me on the forecheck much more than someone like Lucic; they're not as physical, but they simply don't lose puck battles in the corners or along the boards, are perfect positionally at all times, and are IMHO much more difficult to play against. Not sure if that fits into the typical definition of toughness/grit, but it should.
I agree - I do not think Lucic, Doan, or Iginla would be welcome additions to the team.

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08-26-2013, 12:06 PM
  #36
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My forwards and lines as of today for Sochi are as follows:

E.Staal Crosby Carter

Nash Getzlaf Perry

Stamkos Tavares St. Louis

Toews Bergeron Giroux

13th Forward- Patrick Sharp
14th Forward- Matt Duchene

No Edmonton Oilers will make the forward unit- RNH, Hall and Eberle (who a lot of posters love) are not yet ready for Prime Time. Maybe in 2018.

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08-26-2013, 12:27 PM
  #37
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I agree with you on the above. RNH is going to be on the 2018 Olympic team, of that much I am certain, but there is almost no way he even gets a sniff this time around. That grasshopper has a long way to go.

As for Lucic, I agree, but only due to the international ice surface. One thing I am concerned about though is our overall level of team toughness. If Marchand is on the team, who is going to cash the cheques he writes? (as the expression goes). Perhaps Iginla or Doan make it in a 4th line role just to keep some grit in the lineup?
I find toughness to be a tad overrated by our country. There's no need to worry about toughness when you can just outclass most other teams. Now, if it came down to two players who we felt were of the same calibre and one had a little more grit? Sure, I'll take the one with grit.

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Old
08-26-2013, 12:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Shane Doan would be a hilariously poor choice for the 2014 (he was a very poor choice in 2006 too, IMO), and Iginla, as much as I respect the guy, wouldn't be much better. In the past Canada found success at the old Canada / World Cups (which were all on NHL-sized ice surfaces, BTW) by loading up on grinders, defensive players, and good two-way guys and simply bludgeoning the opposition. Some people have it in their mind that this "Canadian style" still works internationally, but it doesn't. The OGs are played under IIHF rules, with IIHF referees, on a larger playing surface. None of the other teams will put any sort of premium on grit or toughness, and we shouldn't either. Sure, a few guys need to be there to kill penalties, and it won't hurt to have some size, but the international game is not one that the likes of Perry, Lucic, Doan, or Iginla (at this point in his career) will really thrive in.

And honestly, as a guy who played quite a bit of defence in my younger days, I'd fear someone like Bergeron or Toews coming in on me on the forecheck much more than someone like Lucic; they're not as physical, but they simply don't lose puck battles in the corners or along the boards, are perfect positionally at all times, and are IMHO much more difficult to play against. Not sure if that fits into the typical definition of toughness/grit, but it should.
I totally agree with you: Too much emphasis on grit is a bad thing.

I think the US will use this approach to their bottom 2 lines.

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Old
08-26-2013, 12:39 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
I find toughness to be a tad overrated by our country. There's no need to worry about toughness when you can just outclass most other teams. Now, if it came down to two players who we felt were of the same calibre and one had a little more grit? Sure, I'll take the one with grit.
Agreed! As long as they are not lacking SPEED!

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08-26-2013, 03:02 PM
  #40
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Expected lines for second session: Kunitz-Crosby-Sharp; Marchand-Bergeron-Eberle; Lucic-Duchene-Neal; Hall-J. Staal-U of C player filling in

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Couple of things to keep in mind: who plays LD and who plays RD. This coaching staff wants at least 3 LD, maybe 4.

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08-26-2013, 03:02 PM
  #41
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Assemble the worst team you can think of that would still take a bronze medal!

Marleau - Thornton - St. Louis
Lucic - Richards B - Seguin
Benn - Duchene - Lecavalier
Marchand - Richards M - Bergeron

...
duchene, bergeron and st louis should make the team

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08-26-2013, 03:07 PM
  #42
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I totally agree with you: Too much emphasis on grit is a bad thing.

I think the US will use this approach to their bottom 2 lines.
The U.S. team will look more like a prototypical NHL team because we don't have the depth Canada does (especially down the middle). That said, I can't complain too much of guys like Backes, Oshie, Callahan, and Brown are used in that capacity.

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08-26-2013, 03:36 PM
  #43
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The U.S. team will look more like a prototypical NHL team because we don't have the depth Canada does (especially down the middle). That said, I can't complain too much of guys like Backes, Oshie, Callahan, and Brown are used in that capacity.
I agree, but in some ways that might work in your favour.

I wouldn't complain either if Canada had to take great grinders; there are ways to make that work.
I just don't think Canada should focus on that type of game when we don't have to.

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08-26-2013, 04:32 PM
  #44
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Prediction as of now:

Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, Tavares, Getzlaf, Perry, St. Louis, Nash, Bergeron, Duchene, Hall, E. Staal, Toews and Couture - 14 forwards

Keith (LD), Weber, Bouwmeester (LD), Letang, Pietrangelo, Doughty, Subban, Hamhuis (LD) - 8 defensemen

Luongo, Price, Ward/whoever is hot at the time - 3 goalies

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08-26-2013, 05:03 PM
  #45
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Toews - Crosby - Tavares

St.louis - Stamkos - Giroux

Hall - Bergeron - E.staal

Nash - Thornton - Duchene


Weber - Doughty
Bouwmeester - Pietrangelo
Keith - Subban


Last edited by MotorMaster: 08-26-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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08-26-2013, 05:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Shane Doan would be a hilariously poor choice for the 2014 (he was a very poor choice in 2006 too, IMO), and Iginla, as much as I respect the guy, wouldn't be much better. In the past Canada found success at the old Canada / World Cups (which were all on NHL-sized ice surfaces, BTW) by loading up on grinders, defensive players, and good two-way guys and simply bludgeoning the opposition. Some people have it in their mind that this "Canadian style" still works internationally, but it doesn't. The OGs are played under IIHF rules, with IIHF referees, on a larger playing surface. None of the other teams will put any sort of premium on grit or toughness, and we shouldn't either. Sure, a few guys need to be there to kill penalties, and it won't hurt to have some size, but the international game is not one that the likes of Perry, Lucic, Doan, or Iginla (at this point in his career) will really thrive in.

And honestly, as a guy who played quite a bit of defence in my younger days, I'd fear someone like Bergeron or Toews coming in on me on the forecheck much more than someone like Lucic; they're not as physical, but they simply don't lose puck battles in the corners or along the boards, are perfect positionally at all times, and are IMHO much more difficult to play against. Not sure if that fits into the typical definition of toughness/grit, but it should.
While I agree with the most, I think we should take at least one or two very physical / energy players. (M.Richards, Ladd, Lucic, Benn, E.Kane)

It's always good when you have a player who brings the energy when it's needed.

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08-26-2013, 05:27 PM
  #47
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 3h
Expected lines for second session: Kunitz-Crosby-Sharp; Marchand-Bergeron-Eberle; Lucic-Duchene-Neal; Hall-J. Staal-U of C player filling in
I like Sharp there. I think he would support the Crosby line defensively very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigPAVELSKI View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2h
Couple of things to keep in mind: who plays LD and who plays RD. This coaching staff wants at least 3 LD, maybe 4.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2h
Your LD possibilities: Keith, JBo, M Staal, Vlasic, Hamhuis, Methot, Phaneuf, Alzner.
That's interesting. I think Hamhuis, Bouwmeester and Staal have the best chance out there. Or maybe even Phaneuf.

I think if you put Phaneuf with defensively responsible Dman (like Seabrook or Doughty) he could be used well.

Keith - Weber
Phaneuf - Doughty
Pietrangelo - Subban
Letang
Hamhuis / Bouwmeester

It's probably not going to happen though. Too much offense in that defence. Bouwmeester, Hamhuis, or even Staal are probably better choice.

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08-26-2013, 05:47 PM
  #48
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http://imgur.com/a/Kp2gZ


Pictures from Team Canada's practice today

Who can spot the fatty

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08-26-2013, 06:14 PM
  #49
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http://imgur.com/a/Kp2gZ


Pictures from Team Canada's practice today

Who can spot the fatty
Man, check out the gut on Lucic!
Thought he was "working out like a madman" to get quicker...

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08-26-2013, 06:44 PM
  #50
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Prediction as of now:

Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, Tavares, Getzlaf, Perry, St. Louis, Nash, Bergeron, Duchene, Hall, E. Staal, Toews and Couture - 14 forwards

Keith (LD), Weber, Bouwmeester (LD), Letang, Pietrangelo, Doughty, Subban, Hamhuis (LD) - 8 defensemen

Luongo, Price, Ward/whoever is hot at the time - 3 goalies
I'm hoping it's Staal instead of Bouwmeester and Mike Smith @ #3

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