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Gagner New Captain?

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08-30-2013, 10:13 AM
  #376
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Putting aside the level of dishonesty in an interview with any professional athlete, Taylor Hall said it wasn't important to him to be named captain, he didn't say he was indifferent about who becomes captain.

It is generally accepted that the average hockey player cares about who is named captain of his team but since no one has ever really conducted a survey I can only provide anecdotal evidence.
Maybe when it comes to naming Mike Brown or Taylor Hall the captain, but guys aren't going to get upset if it's Sam Gagner or Taylor Hall.

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08-30-2013, 10:34 AM
  #377
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You were implying the captain should be chosen by seniority but the Blackhawks have been a great team picked apart by free agency so the only players left on it with a long tenure are perennial all stars who are part of their core. A member of the core or a 30 plus year old veteran should be captain, Sam Gagner is neither.

Sam Gagner is not part of the Oilers core. If he is part of the core, why wasn't he offered a long-term deal?
Could it be that they could not decide on the value of a long term deal? Probably why it went to the wire and then they settled on a short term deal.

Though to keep it on track and this is not directed towards you but the topic on hand. I do not buy the rumour? Why would Dallas Eakins decide on a captain before he has even been to training camp?

I don't buy it at all.

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08-30-2013, 10:44 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Because, while it is not measurable, it is important to the players.
But why do you care? As a fan, who the captain is ranks up there in importance with the music in the dressing room and the kind of soap they use to wash the gear. It's inside baseball stuff that has marginal bearing (if any) on the on-ice performance of the team.

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08-30-2013, 10:46 AM
  #379
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I fail to see why everybody says stuff like this. Hall is an awesome winger with continuous energy. Good example for others but his team, please. Hall wouldn't even give centre a go when needed.

Captain doesn't have to be best player at all. I don't need to spell out what is needed it is obvious.

Seems some teams give captaincy to a player as part of a contract agreement or to make that player happy. Stupid reasons to me. Though there may be more than one possible on a team captain material stands out, not to fans necessarily but to the team.

If Gagner becomes captain its because he fits.
Non core player rumoured to be traded at the deadline numerous times.

One who's playstyle does not fit the identity of the team, and one who other players around the league do not respect.

Jason Smith was an AMAZING team captain. He epitomized the Oilers. When Comrie mailed it in in the Playoffs, Smith shoved him against the wall and gave him a stern strip down of what is expected of him. The importance of pride in the logo.

Gagner mails it in far too often for me to comfortably give the 'C' to.

This is not a case of a good player taking a random night off. We've seen him take 10+ consecutive nights off.

Hall rarely takes a shift off.

If Gags is named captain. Whatever, he simply isn't the best choice.

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08-30-2013, 11:11 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
But why do you care? As a fan, who the captain is ranks up there in importance with the music in the dressing room and the kind of soap they use to wash the gear. It's inside baseball stuff that has marginal bearing (if any) on the on-ice performance of the team.
Just say the name Gagner and he cares. Its like a bell rings. Not sure why either.

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08-30-2013, 11:19 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
But why do you care? As a fan, who the captain is ranks up there in importance with the music in the dressing room and the kind of soap they use to wash the gear. It's inside baseball stuff that has marginal bearing (if any) on the on-ice performance of the team.
I care because I am a fan of the team and want to see them succeed.

It is an idiotic notion that the choice of captain is as meaningless as the choice of soap or music in the dressing room.

By choosing a captain you are designating one member of the team as its leader. Even if it is largely a symbolic position you are raising one member of the team above the others. If you promote an undeserving player to captain you threaten to foster resentment and undermine results.

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08-30-2013, 11:58 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
I care because I am a fan of the team and want to see them succeed.

It is an idiotic notion that the choice of captain is as meaningless as the choice of soap or music in the dressing room.

By choosing a captain you are designating one member of the team as its leader. Even if it is largely a symbolic position you are raising one member of the team above the others. If you promote an undeserving player to captain you threaten to foster resentment and undermine results.
Remember, this is by your standard, not theirs. Once you understand that, you'll understande Moose's question better.

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08-30-2013, 12:01 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
I care because I am a fan of the team and want to see them succeed.
This assumes the capitain has some bnearing on that. I don't think it does.

Quote:
It is an idiotic notion that the choice of captain is as meaningless as the choice of soap or music in the dressing room.
What if the music sucks and bums guys out? What if the soap makes guys itch? These are real world concerns here.

Quote:
By choosing a captain you are designating one member of the team as its leader. Even if it is largely a symbolic position you are raising one member of the team above the others. If you promote an undeserving player to captain you threaten to foster resentment and undermine results.
As a fan, you have very limited understanding of who is deserving or not. That's the point here. You're simply not in a position to make an accurate assessment because you don't have all the information.


Last edited by Moose Coleman: 08-30-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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08-30-2013, 12:07 PM
  #384
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I just can't believe that Gagner would be given the captaincy without Eakin or the new guys spending time together on the ice or in the dressing room. A captain is typically chosen by the coach, not management (and I don't believe that Eakins would take MacT's word for it, and if he did, then that's probably not a great thing), and sometimes it's the players themselves who vote on the captaincy. Calling Gagner the captain is undoubtedly premature at this point. I would be shocked and disappointed if that decision was already made.

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08-30-2013, 12:12 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
This assumes the capitain has some bnearing on that. I don't think it does.



What if the music sucks and bums guys out? What if the soap makes guys itch? These are real world concerns here.



As a fan, you have very limited understanding of who is deserving or not. That's the point here. You're simply not in a position to make an accurate assessment because you don't have all the information.
Couldn't have said it better.

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08-30-2013, 12:23 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
This assumes the capitain has some bnearing on that. I don't think it does.



What if the music sucks and bums guys out? What if the soap makes guys itch? These are real world concerns here.



As a fan, you have very limited understanding of who is deserving or not. That's the point here. You're simply not in a position to make an accurate assessment because you don't have all the information.

Imagine your employer promotes a 24 year old staff member to a position of authority over you on the basis that he has been with the organization for 6 years, even though he is half the contributor you are.

How do you take that?

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08-30-2013, 12:26 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Imagine your employer promotes a 24 year old staff member to a position of authority over you on the basis that he has been with the organization for 6 years, even though he is half the contributor you are.

How do you take that?
Happens all the time, depends what the employer views as strengths for the position. Just because Hall does more on the ice doesn't mean he is the best man for the captain.

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08-30-2013, 12:30 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Happens all the time, depends what the employer views as strengths for the position. Just because Hall does more on the ice doesn't mean he is the best man for the captain.
It happens in bad organizations all the time.

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08-30-2013, 12:34 PM
  #389
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Captains in the Pacific Division (projected and Gagner rumour)

Anaheim Ducks: Ryan Getzlaf
Calgary Flames: Mark Giordano
LA Kings: Dustin Brown
Phoenix Coyotes: Shane Doan
San Jose Sharks: Joe Thornton
Vancouver Canucks: Henrik Sedin
Edmonton Oilers: Sam Gagner


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08-30-2013, 12:34 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Imagine your employer promotes a 24 year old staff member to a position of authority over you on the basis that he has been with the organization for 6 years, even though he is half the contributor you are.

How do you take that?
"Authority over you"?

No, it is like the 24 year old being named employee of the month (whatever you think of his performance, and you seem incapable of acknowledging the fact that you lack all the information to know who is good and to what extent in the dressing room).

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08-30-2013, 12:35 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Captains in the Pacific Division (projected and Gagner rumour)

Anaheim Ducks: Ryan Getzlaf
Calgary Flames: Mark Giordano
LA Kings: Anze Kopitar
San Jose Sharks: Joe Thornton
Vancouver Canucks: Henrik Sedin
Edmonton Oilers: Sam Gagner

Didn't realize Kopitar took captaincy from Brown.

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08-30-2013, 12:38 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Happens all the time, depends what the employer views as strengths for the position. Just because Hall does more on the ice doesn't mean he is the best man for the captain.
If Hall is out of the lineup, our team is lifeless.

If Gagner is out of the lineup, nobody notices, and that's with no center depth !!

This is my view of strengths for the position.

Don't mean to knock Gags as he is an ok 2nd line center...

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08-30-2013, 12:39 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Didn't realize Kopitar took captaincy from Brown.
I was too excited about the Sesame Street song and rushed the rest of the post (I also forgot to include Phoenix). I fixed it while you were typing your post.

Point stands with Brown as Kings captain.


Last edited by Mcworraps: 08-30-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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08-30-2013, 01:16 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Imagine your employer promotes a 24 year old staff member to a position of authority over you on the basis that he has been with the organization for 6 years, even though he is half the contributor you are.

How do you take that?
Your analogy is silly in a lot of ways (captains don't have any real authority over their teammates; hockey teams aren't offices or job sites and finally, how would you take it if some 21 year old hotshot got promoted over you based on his first few months' performance?), but the real point remains: you haven't the faintest idea of the basis upon which they would choose Gagner as captain.

Christ. Most people don't even know what the hell goes on in games they actually see; how are so many people experts on what goes on in the dressing room or between player's ears?

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08-30-2013, 01:35 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Captains in the Pacific Division (projected and Gagner rumour)

Anaheim Ducks: Ryan Getzlaf
Calgary Flames: Mark Giordano
LA Kings: Dustin Brown
Phoenix Coyotes: Shane Doan
San Jose Sharks: Joe Thornton
Vancouver Canucks: Henrik Sedin
Edmonton Oilers: Sam Gagner

I've got it - Giordano's a defenseman.

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08-30-2013, 02:04 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Your analogy is silly in a lot of ways (captains don't have any real authority over their teammates; hockey teams aren't offices or job sites and finally, how would you take it if some 21 year old hotshot got promoted over you based on his first few months' performance?), but the real point remains: you haven't the faintest idea of the basis upon which they would choose Gagner as captain.

Christ. Most people don't even know what the hell goes on in games they actually see; how are so many people experts on what goes on in the dressing room or between player's ears?
I applaud your efforts, but that horse won't drink.

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08-30-2013, 02:26 PM
  #397
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Just say the name Gagner and he cares. Its like a bell rings. Not sure why either.
Torres!










Sorry, I just had to.

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08-30-2013, 03:31 PM
  #398
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Torres!










Sorry, I just had to.


You rang?




Suppertime yet?




Dinner arrived?



Season start yet?





Dang, I thought a pavlov bell went off..

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08-30-2013, 03:40 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Captains in the Pacific Division (projected and Gagner rumour)

Anaheim Ducks: Ryan Getzlaf
Calgary Flames: Mark Giordano
LA Kings: Dustin Brown
Phoenix Coyotes: Shane Doan
San Jose Sharks: Joe Thornton
Vancouver Canucks: Henrik Sedin
Edmonton Oilers: Sam Gagner

Yeah, Giordano's pretty terrible and has fallen off the map so hard even Phaneuf can't find him.

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08-30-2013, 03:59 PM
  #400
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Yeah, Giordano's pretty terrible and has fallen off the map so hard even Phaneuf can't find him.
It's all relative. There are a lot of low cards in the Flames' deck.

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