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Old
12-16-2013, 11:13 AM
  #276
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Moulson is basically Brooks Laich. Useless at even strength but he can score on the PP (not really a need here).

He's George McPhee's godson as well.

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12-16-2013, 11:13 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Wait...you mean the Russian Mario Lemieux?? The same guy who loafed around thru most every hockey game and came up small in the playoffs time after time?

You look up underachiever in the dictionary and there will be an entry with his name all over it.

I don't miss him one bit.
The guy who was more reliable at entering the zone and protecting the puck along the boards than our entire team combined, yes.

But don't actually pay attention to what players do on the ice when you can go by their reputations and your preconceptions about them.

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12-16-2013, 11:27 AM
  #278
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Ideally Ovechkin and Backstrom should be separate simply because Backstrom goes into alpha mode whenever Ovechkin is not on his line while with Ovechkin he's firmly a beta. Ovechkin can maintain roughly the same production with any capable players, they don't need to be star caliber just top 6 caliber.

Hindsight wise, they should have done

Johansson + 3rd for Perron
2nd+ for Bolland
Laich for Grabo (yeah he'd be at 5.5 mil but that's roughly where he'd be should we resign him anyway, for this year we'd actually save 2 mil since Laich would be shipped out)
Green + Brouwer for Downie + Parenteau
Neuvirth for Smid

Ovechkin Grabovski Erat
Perron Backstrom Parenteau
Downie Bolland Wilson
Chimera Perreault Ward
Volpatti Latta

Alzner Carlson
Smid Orlov
Urbom Olesky

Then work on D as the season progresses, but the forward lines would be up there with the best in the league. Lethal top 6 and a bottom 6 that can both hit/pester/annoy the **** out of opponents and control the play at even strength/light up lesser competition /captainhindsightbutnotreally

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Old
12-16-2013, 11:57 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Hindsight wise, they should have done

Johansson + 3rd for Perron
2nd+ for Bolland
Laich for Grabo (yeah he'd be at 5.5 mil but that's roughly where he'd be should we resign him anyway, for this year we'd actually save 2 mil since Laich would be shipped out)
Green + Brouwer for Downie + Parenteau
Neuvirth for Smid
If only this would be so easy...

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:25 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I don't think Moulson has retrieved a single puck in his life.

Perron would have been ideal. Johansson + 3rd would have done it. But nooooo, gotta keep the ballerina.
WTF?

Seriously?

You think the difference between MoJo and Paajarvi is downgrading a 2nd to a 3rd? LOL.

Also:


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12-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #281
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If only this would be so easy...
Eh value wise it's more or less consistent. And that's all we can really go on when thinking up our own trades since we don't actually get to talk to GMs and see behind the scenes stuff.

Also if we poached Bolland out from under the Leafs I think they'd have jumped at a Laich for Grabo deal since Laich would be a Bolland replacement for them and they'd have been able to get out from under Grabo without buying him out. Perhaps we'd have had to take some junk contract as well though.


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Old
12-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #282
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Another ROW-less win against Philly. What will it mean down the road.......if anything?

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12-16-2013, 01:15 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
WTF?

Seriously?

You think the difference between MoJo and Paajarvi is downgrading a 2nd to a 3rd? LOL.

Also:

No, I think that's what it would cost to get David Perron on the caps and I think it would have been worth it. I don't actually give a f***ing s*** on the exact metric difference between in value Johansson and MPS. Whether it's a 3rd or 4th or 2 5ths and a 7th in 2021 does not matter to me. My biggest thing is getting the right combination of players on the same team at the same time, not sucking as much value out of everyone as we can. For that you may have to overpay somewhere and as long as it's not crippling who cares. It's not about getting good value from one guy, it's about having 20 right guys on the team AT THE SAME TIME. McPhee doesn't get it either which is why you've never seen a caps team without a major hole somewhere, since he plugs them all on different years when he can get something of value, neglecting the fact that it may be worth overpaying to have both a 2C and 2LD on the team AT THE SAME TIME rather than getting good value and still having a team with holes. We're back here again with Schmidt/Urbom/Olesky/Strachan being forced to fill holes on D they should not be expect to fill for a contending team. You could maybe haggle it down to Johansson straight up but if a 3rd cements it I don't particularly care about throwing it away.

Also what does Perron diving have to do with anything? I'd rather have our team dive its way to a cup than tirechange its way to annual 2nd round playoff exits. Crosby dives, Thornton dives, Kesler dives, Ovechkin dives sometimes, who cares really.

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12-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Another ROW-less win against Philly. What will it mean down the road.......if anything?
First tie breaker for playoff seeding.

And that we will most likely be eliminated in the first round since there is no shootout and will have less time on the powerplay.

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:28 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Eh value wise it's more or less consistent. And that's all we can really go on when thinking up our own trades since we don't actually get to talk to GMs and see behind the scenes stuff.

Also if we poached Bolland out from under the Leafs I think they'd have jumped at a Laich for Grabo deal since Laich would be a Bolland replacement for them and they'd have been able to get out from under Grabo without buying him out. Perhaps we'd have had to take some junk contract as well though.
Sekera would have been a good get too. The guy has 18 pts. this year already and 1 SHG somehow. Maybe an EN PK clear/shot?

I wonder what the equivalent of McBain + 2nd would have been? Schmidt + 2nd?

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:30 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Koized View Post
First tie breaker for playoff seeding.

And that we will most likely be eliminated in the first round since there is no shootout and will have less time on the powerplay.
Well, okay then. Anybody want to try a positive spin?

Can't think of any myself.

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12-16-2013, 01:41 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Sekera would have been a good get too. The guy has 18 pts. this year already and 1 SHG somehow. Maybe an EN PK clear/shot?

I wonder what the equivalent of McBain + 2nd would have been? Schmidt + 2nd?
McBain was a cap dump and the 2nd was TJ Compher who Buffalo had a huge mancrush on and was the only reason they dealt Sekera as they were getting the pick with him in mind. So probably our 1st with maybe a 3rd coming back. Maybe even trade down to 30 and the trade that pick for Sekera and keep whatever we'd net from it. I'd have been fine with it, not high on Burakovsky at all in the context of winning the cup now or later.

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Old
12-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Moulson is basically Brooks Laich. Useless at even strength but he can score on the PP (not really a need here).

He's George McPhee's godson as well.
Moulson had 45 ESP in 2011-12. 20+ ESG each year from 2009-10 through 2011-12. Though it seems his game has fallen off the past two seasons. Not crazy about the skill-cost-term balance there.

I'd look to buy low on Pacioretty, or see if Ladd can be had.

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:06 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Moulson had 45 ESP in 2011-12. 20+ ESG each year from 2009-10 through 2011-12. Though it seems his game has fallen off the past two seasons. Not crazy about the skill-cost-term balance there.

I'd look to buy low on Pacioretty, or see if Ladd can be had.
There's only two forwards I want to add next year. Grabovski and Ladd. I'd pay pretty much anything.

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12-16-2013, 04:10 PM
  #290
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Well, okay then. Anybody want to try a positive spin?

Can't think of any myself.
1. Sucking up extra points early in the season to protect against losing streaks of the Caps and surges by other teams.
2. 10-3 after 60 minutes, means they have plenty left in the tank after 60 minutes = built for playoff overtime
3. With the 3 losses coming in the shootout and two wins coming in OT. They have not allowed a goal in OT for roughly 65 minutes (minus the time left on the clock in both OT wins). This = good OT play.

Positive spins, don't necessarily think they are all 100% valid

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12-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #291
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Well, okay then. Anybody want to try a positive spin?

Can't think of any myself.
sure...I will bite. they suck but will make the playoffs and get a lead in the series. that way we will have the entire off season to talk about the choking dogs and who might/should be fired.

hows that? we all know right now that they are a waste of time.

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Old
12-16-2013, 05:45 PM
  #292
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sure...I will bite. they suck but will make the playoffs and get a lead in the series. that way we will have the entire off season to talk about the choking dogs and who might/should be fired.

hows that? we all know right now that they are a waste of time.
Pretty damn accurate.

The only way this team makes a deep playoff run as constructed is a Halak like performance by Holtby or the three core players show up and play to their abilities (i.e., Ovechkin, Green and Backstrom) and Holtby is solid. Chances of that happening? Slim to none. Green is MIA almost every playoff and Backstrom and Ovechkin have been hit or miss lately.

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12-16-2013, 06:50 PM
  #293
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Pretty damn accurate.

The only way this team makes a deep playoff run as constructed is a Halak like performance by Holtby or the three core players show up and play to their abilities (i.e., Ovechkin, Green and Backstrom) and Holtby is solid. Chances of that happening? Slim to none. Green is MIA almost every playoff and Backstrom and Ovechkin have been hit or miss lately.
the problem is that your above scenario for the caps to advance deep in the playoffs is a typical scenario for most teams. hot goalie and a conn smythe performance from a star or two. right? the caps have never been able to put those things together and that is why they fail.

varly was awesome in the fedorov rangers series but was not so much vs the penguins and was hideous in game 7. while halak was awesome, varly was not very special allowing 20-30ft shots that he saw to beat him clean. last playoffs the caps might well have advanced had ovechkin scored more than one. at the time green was having maybe his best playoffs and was really the only one of the core stars to deliver.

ive said this consistently. this team can win the cup. holtby has to play like a cup winning goalie and one of the stars, 8, 19, 52, 74 needs to have a conn smythe level playoffs, series after series.

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12-16-2013, 07:12 PM
  #294
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the problem is that your above scenario for the caps to advance deep in the playoffs is a typical scenario for most teams. hot goalie and a conn smythe performance from a star or two. right? the caps have never been able to put those things together and that is why they fail.

varly was awesome in the fedorov rangers series but was not so much vs the penguins and was hideous in game 7. while halak was awesome, varly was not very special allowing 20-30ft shots that he saw to beat him clean. last playoffs the caps might well have advanced had ovechkin scored more than one. at the time green was having maybe his best playoffs and was really the only one of the core stars to deliver.

ive said this consistently. this team can win the cup. holtby has to play like a cup winning goalie and one of the stars, 8, 19, 52, 74 needs to have a conn smythe level playoffs, series after series.
They need Conn Smythe level of play from all three of Green, Ovechkin and Backstrom and very solid goaltending from Holtby, not just one of them. The team is not deep enough or solid enough defensively for even just one of the three to show up at less than that level.

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12-16-2013, 08:58 PM
  #295
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What will it mean down the road.......if anything?
I'm going with the positive spin of 64% of the time the Caps don't lose in regulation, which should mean plenty of playoff OT fun...

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12-16-2013, 09:21 PM
  #296
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sure...I will bite. they suck but will make the playoffs and get a lead in the series. that way we will have the entire off season to talk about the choking dogs and who might/should be fired.

hows that? we all know right now that they are a waste of time.
I remember back in the day, before the Internet and overactive/neurotic fanbases had a voice....You checked the Post every day, yes the paper version and as long as you were in the top 8, you were happy. Make the playoffs and anything can happen. This Caps team, really any Ovechkin-led one will always be attempting to live up to the 08-10 teams during the regular season. Unless guys like 8,19,21,52 all are playing near their best...it will instead provide the fans a player or players to focus all their angst at from year to year.

Quote:
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They need Conn Smythe level of play from all three of Green, Ovechkin and Backstrom and very solid goaltending from Holtby, not just one of them. The team is not deep enough or solid enough defensively for even just one of the three to show up at less than that level.
3 Conn Smythe level players? The Caps that made the Finals didn't have 3 of those. I think 1-2 and it's doable. That one, if he's your goalie or one of your stars, chance are you're going deep.

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12-16-2013, 09:37 PM
  #297
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I remember back in the day, before the Internet and overactive/neurotic fanbases had a voice....You checked the Post every day, yes the paper version and as long as you were in the top 8, you were happy. Make the playoffs and anything can happen. This Caps team, really any Ovechkin-led one will always be attempting to live up to the 08-10 teams during the regular season. Unless guys like 8,19,21,52 all are playing near their best...it will instead provide the fans a player or players to focus all their angst at from year to year.

3 Conn Smythe level players? The Caps that made the Finals didn't have 3 of those. I think 1-2 and it's doable. That one, if he's your goalie or one of your stars, chance are you're going deep.
Scroll up, I stated that either Holtby has a Halak like performance which would equal Conn Smythe worthy or the three core players all had to show up with solid goaltending. I'm a fan of Holtby but don't feel like he could bring that type of performance consistently for more than one round.

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12-17-2013, 08:15 AM
  #298
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To me, the problem in the playoffs for the Caps stems from our core guys not having the requisite mental commitment and mental rigor needed for playoff success. They still default to wanting things to be easy - they're like highly talented kids who have been praised all their life for how talented they are, and hence never developed the necessary amount of tenacity, discipline and determination that creates a will to win/succeed.

2008 was a fluke that we got in, and 2009 was (should have been) the real learning experience. But we let Montreal off the hook in Game 5 in 2010 when we should have buried them - forget about the fog on the runway, our guys thought in that game that Montreal would give up, and they didn't figure out until Game 5 was over that that wasn't happening, and then Halak had 2 freakonomic games and we were gone. In 2011, we took Tampa way too lightly. And in 2013, we let up after getting ahead 2-0 (Holtby himself said so after Game 3).

I would have thought Dale had drummed this out of them in 2012, and that's why Holtby's remarks after Game 3 and the Caps inability to ratchet up their play to a higher level once they got ahead in the series was so troubling.

And that's what continues to be troubling about the poor starts and poor ES play. This team begins games like they hope/expect them to be easy, as if they still believe that they should be able to get by on talent alone. It's baffling that that notion has not been drummed out of them forever.

So, yeah, I'm enjoying the last couple of wins -- improbable comebacks are fun, and they don't happen without some semblance of a will to win. But they're also troubling because we get into that position precisely because the Caps play too much of the game in a floaty, uncommitted manner - and this team can't succeed in the playoffs until that tendency is completely extinguished. And it disturbs me that at this point in their careers, our core still appears to have not figured that out.

Sure, it's a process - and maybe this will finally be the year. But it remains the case that for the Caps, the most dangerous opponent they can meet in the playoffs is . . . . the Caps - specifically the thing between the players ears, individually and collectively.

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Old
12-17-2013, 08:26 AM
  #299
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I remember back in the day, before the Internet and overactive/neurotic fanbases had a voice....You checked the Post every day, yes the paper version and as long as you were in the top 8, you were happy. Make the playoffs and anything can happen.
That's not how I remember it. Even then the fans knew the Caps were also-rans in the East. The conventional wisdom was that while they were a hard working bunch that consistently made the playoffs and deserved respect, they never had the talent to put together a serious Cup run. That was the mentality that led to the Jagr trade, and for a brief, shining moment, we thought all of our problems were over.

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12-17-2013, 08:33 AM
  #300
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Nice Rant Marcel. But its December, keep a low expectation bar about players caring.

But overall year round, a lot of our players just come off as lazy to me, not caring. Detesting physical contact. Playoffs started, lets clear the crease. A little. One guy per game significantly steps up their games. Fehr for 3 games then, hey look Chimera has started hitting. Fehr invisible.

I understand players will not give 100% effort all the time, but it seems like players at least tried to every game before the nuNHLite. I cannot recall Langway, Stevens, Tinordi, ever taking a night off. Now it seems rare that I see a player showing up for work. It looks more like an optional practice.

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