HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

2013 Rookie camp roster (September 5-9)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-07-2013, 09:36 AM
  #276
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I don't understand your logic here... and I may be missing something. Maybe you could clear up the math for me.
It's actually the opposite of what he said.

If you start the year 2 mil under the cap, then at the deadline you can add a 4.5-5 mil cap hit without deleting anybody from the roster.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 09:41 AM
  #277
Tyson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 2,833
vCash: 500
Never been real impressed with Gorges. His salary is ridiculous for what he brings.

Tyson is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 09:46 AM
  #278
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Why would Gorges be worth less in 2 or 3 years? The cap will be higher, he'll still be in his prime or close at 31-32 with a couple years left on his contract.

I don't see why the team can't have Gorges, Tinordi and also Emelin on the squad.

The whole "hard to play against" thing to me is mostly hot air. You need 3-5 punishing players on your roster to win at playoff time, not 18-20, cups are won by top players...#1 goalies, top 6 forwards and top 4 d-men...not because a team is necessarily "hard to play against". You can have 6 d-men taht hack and whack and finish their checks, but if they are poor at moving the puck and in transition, then you have no chance, you won't make the playoffs, let alone have a long playoff run. Hockey is still about putting pucks in the net and keeping them out at the other end. Gorges is good at keeping them out, plus he is a gritty, character guy and leader. I don't see him becoming obsolete any time soon. In fact with more young guys getting broken in the next 2 years if anything he becomes even more valuable.
Part of putting pucks in the net and keeping them out is having a team that as a whole is hard to play against. This doesn't mean that they all have to be big bruisers but they must be willing to pay a price and go to the dirty areas of the ice.

The truth is almost opposite of what you said in that the team must consist of players who are difficult to play against but can be supplemented with the odd pure skill player (Kane).

Being difficult to play against and being highly skilled are not mutually exclusive in the case of many players.....

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 09:48 AM
  #279
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
It's actually the opposite of what he said.

If you start the year 2 mil under the cap, then at the deadline you can add a 4.5-5 mil cap hit without deleting anybody from the roster.
Exactly what I thought, too.

HCH is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 09:48 AM
  #280
blueberry
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Well thanks for all that rookie camp news!

blueberry is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 09:51 AM
  #281
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,726
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
I'm definitely unsure about this Gorges kid based on the mixed report.

I guess I will judge him after his rookie camp.

WeThreeKings is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #282
Mercury10
Registered User
 
Mercury10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vernon, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 50
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
So.... any rookie camp news?
So.......??????????

Mercury10 is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 09:59 AM
  #283
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Part of putting pucks in the net and keeping them out is having a team that as a whole is hard to play against. This doesn't mean that they all have to be big bruisers but they must be willing to pay a price and go to the dirty areas of the ice.

The truth is almost opposite of what you said in that the team must consist of players who are difficult to play against but can be supplemented with the odd pure skill player (Kane).

Being difficult to play against and being highly skilled are not mutually exclusive in the case of many players.....
Murray is a guy who is "hard to play against" in the sense you are talking about, but Gorges is better than him at keeping pucks out of our net(plus he is a better puckhandler).

Chicago as 4 skill guys for every guy that's "hard to play against" and they just won a cup. I think that's the blueprint MB likes.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 10:18 AM
  #284
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Murray is a guy who is "hard to play against" in the sense you are talking about, but Gorges is better than him at keeping pucks out of our net(plus he is a better puckhandler).

Chicago as 4 skill guys for every guy that's "hard to play against" and they just won a cup. I think that's the blueprint MB likes.
That isn't remotely true imo.....would you care to list these 16 skill players who are not hard to play against?
"
Remember the term "hard to play against is in reference to players that don't concede ice to the opposition and take contested ice away from their opponents. The only player that comes to mind on the Hawks that is not hard to play against in this sense is Kane.

I should also mention that I have a tie to the Hawks that I can't mention but I can assure you that Kane is a constant source of frustration for the coaching staff. It is his perimeter play that drives them nuts but they love Toews as he will do anything to win.

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 10:22 AM
  #285
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
That isn't remotely true imo.....would you care to list these 16 skill players who are not hard to play against?
"
Remember the term "hard to play against is in reference to players that don't concede ice to the opposition and take contested ice away from their opponents. The only player that comes to mind on the Hawks that is not hard to play against in this sense is Kane.

I should also mention that I have a tie to the Hawks that I can't mention but I can assure you that Kane is a constant source of frustration for the coaching staff. It is his perimeter play that drives them nuts but they love Toews as he will do anything to win.
Kane Toews Hossa Saad Keith Sharp Leddy Stalberg Frolik Roszival Oduya Kruger

You can name Bickell Shaw and Seabrook as guys "hard to play against"

Do the math, it's about 12 for 3.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 10:28 AM
  #286
JHabs61
Registered User
 
JHabs61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 960
vCash: 500
Think there will be a stream for the scrimmage today?

JHabs61 is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 10:32 AM
  #287
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Kane Toews Hossa Saad Keith Sharp Leddy Stalberg Frolik Roszival Oduya Kruger

You can name Bickell Shaw and Seabrook as guys "hard to play against"

Do the math, it's about 12 for 3.
Care to explain why you don't think why each of these players are not hard to play against?

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 10:35 AM
  #288
Pavel_Bure
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 105
vCash: 500
Something is wrong with HF boards. I clicked on rookie camp and was brought to this thread containing nothing about rookie camp... Can the Mods resolve this please?

Pavel_Bure is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 10:35 AM
  #289
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Care to explain why you don't think why each of these players are not hard to play against?
If guys like Gorges don't qualify as "hard to play against" because they are not punishing players then CBH have about 3 guys that qualify. Very simple. They won a cup...actually two, so being "hard to play against" is hugely overrated.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 10:41 AM
  #290
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If guys like Gorges don't qualify as "hard to play against" because they are not punishing players then CBH have about 3 guys that qualify. Very simple. They won a cup...actually two, so being "hard to play against" is hugely overrated.
You can't arbitrarily say that Gorges isn't hard to play against then draw comparisons from there. He is hard to play against because he battles for his ice. Talk to any coach and they will define it in the same manner.

Let's try it again, this time with an explanation. Please

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 11:02 AM
  #291
Habbadasher
Registered User
 
Habbadasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My couch
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Markov, Bouillon, Diaz, Emelin, and Murray are all UFAs at the end of the season. They won't all be re-signed. None may be.
That is a big maybe, it would be very bad asset management to let five UFA D walk without getting something. I am confident we will resign 2 - 3 of those, at two will most likely never get another job in the NHL.

Habbadasher is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 11:10 AM
  #292
Rikiki Bousquet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury10 View Post
So.......??????????
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm definitely unsure about this Gorges kid based on the mixed report.

I guess I will judge him after his rookie camp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel_Bure View Post
Something is wrong with HF boards. I clicked on rookie camp and was brought to this thread containing nothing about rookie camp... Can the Mods resolve this please?
Thank you...

Went reading three pages of gorges when I wanted to read news from the rookie camp.

Rikiki Bousquet is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 11:14 AM
  #293
Erik Estrada
One Country United!
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Land of the Habs
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikiki Bousquet View Post
Thank you...

Went reading three pages of gorges when I wanted to read news from the rookie camp.
Maybe the thread title could be changed to "Everything Josh Gorges"?

Erik Estrada is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 11:18 AM
  #294
EveryDay
Habs Prospect
 
EveryDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gatineau
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Maybe the thread title could be changed to "Everything Josh Gorges"?
According to LHJMQ scouts, Andrighetto is the most NHL ready player from our 2013 Drafts. I know he's older but I tought DLR was the most ready prospect from that draft?

EveryDay is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 11:25 AM
  #295
Issacar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
According to LHJMQ scouts, Andrighetto is the most NHL ready player from our 2013 Drafts. I know he's older but I tought DLR was the most ready prospect from that draft?
Kind of hard to analyze a guy who is in Sweden now and compare him with other players who are training here in Montréal.

Issacar is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 11:49 AM
  #296
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
It's actually the opposite of what he said.

If you start the year 2 mil under the cap, then at the deadline you can add a 4.5-5 mil cap hit without deleting anybody from the roster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Exactly what I thought, too.
Say Mtl keeps Tinordi to start the year, taking up all the cap space they have, and also have a full 23 man roster...if at the trade deadline, they want to send Tinordi down, and use the cap space to acquire someone else, they would have the same cap space at that moment as they would have if they sent Tinordi down at the start of the year.


There is no cap advantage to sending Tinordi down now cap wise unless you want to acquire a player now.

Sorry if I'm not being clear.

habs03 is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 11:51 AM
  #297
jayck
Registered User
 
jayck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 74
vCash: 500
**** Georges...I want news avout Beaulieu, Nygren and others rookies from that rookie camp!
Thanks

jayck is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 12:01 PM
  #298
Issacar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Say Mtl keeps Tinordi to start the year, taking up all the cap space they have, and also have a full 23 man roster...if at the trade deadline, they want to send Tinordi down, and use the cap space to acquire someone else, they would have the same cap space at that moment as they would have if they sent Tinordi down at the start of the year.


There is no cap advantage to sending Tinordi down now cap wise unless you want to acquire a player now.

Sorry if I'm not being clear.
Yes there is, the cap space you save now, becomes a bonus tomorow. Quick example, because last season we were Under the cap, we now have a 2.6M$ bonus on our cap which allow us to have a salary cap at 65.1M$ and still be 1.8M$ Under the cap. (figures taken from capgeek.com).

Issacar is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 12:04 PM
  #299
katatoniak
Registered User
 
katatoniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jonquiere, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayck View Post
**** Georges...I want news avout Beaulieu, Nygren and others rookies from that rookie camp!
Thanks
This!

katatoniak is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 12:10 PM
  #300
BigDisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 21
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
It's actually the opposite of what he said.

If you start the year 2 mil under the cap, then at the deadline you can add a 4.5-5 mil cap hit without deleting anybody from the roster.
That's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Say Mtl keeps Tinordi to start the year, taking up all the cap space they have, and also have a full 23 man roster...if at the trade deadline, they want to send Tinordi down, and use the cap space to acquire someone else, they would have the same cap space at that moment as they would have if they sent Tinordi down at the start of the year.


There is no cap advantage to sending Tinordi down now cap wise unless you want to acquire a player now.

Sorry if I'm not being clear.
Not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I don't understand your logic here... and I may be missing something. Maybe you could clear up the math for me.
Here's the math:

64M cap limit.
64M / 82 = 0.78M per game.
Let's say the trade deadline is 60 games in (not sure about this):

Scenario 1 - We keep tinordi and run with a maxed cap all season:
60 games * 0.78M per game ~= 47M spent
17.2M left for 22 games
0.78M left per game

Scenario 2 - We send Tinordi down in Hamilton and play 2M under the cap until the trade deadline:
62M / 82 games = 0.75M per game
60 games * 0.75M per game ~= 45M spent
18.6M left for 22 games
0.84M left per game

0.84M * 82 games = 68.88M

So, if we play most of the season @ 62M, we'll be able to acquire up to 6.88M of salaries at the trade deadline.

Note that I rounded a lot of numbers, and I'm not sure how many games there is until the trade deadline. But that's the basic math.

BigDisk is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.