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German Elections 2013

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09-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #1
nyrfonmoni
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German Elections 2013

So I'm sitting here and listening to the TV-duell between Merkel and Steinbrück. I won't really coment on that, rather looking forward to talk about the coming elections, Germanys and Europes faith.

Hope Eisen and Schalkenullvier could also contribute.


I as a denier of this system, don't really care for the outcome of the elections. Our faith is determined by the Euro, not anything else.

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09-01-2013, 02:13 PM
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Lonny Bohonos
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Dont care but will post about it?

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09-01-2013, 02:29 PM
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Ugmo
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If German elections are anything like American elections, Steinbruck is far too uncharismatic to win this one.

On the other hand, I would have said the same thing about Merkel a few years ago.

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09-01-2013, 02:33 PM
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Concordski
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Isn't the SPD too weak to lead a government? I just don't see it. I expect another Christian Democrat-led grand coalition just like the government before this one.

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09-01-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Dont care but will post about it?
Unlike you I do not close my mind or the debate. I just felt like it, to open a possibilty for us all to have a debate on it. And it is an important political event.

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09-01-2013, 02:45 PM
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SPDs only hopes are either a coalition with the Linke and die Grünen, or another big coalition of SPD and CDU, which is what I believe will be the outcome.


Volker Pispers (cabaret) will get a stroke.

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09-01-2013, 03:01 PM
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I haven't really been following it that closely, but Steinbruck just seems to have that loser stink on him. Who was before Steinbruck... Kurt Beck? Same deal. And the guy before him - was it Matthias Platzek? What a dull, non-confidence-inspiring group of politicians.

On the other hand it is kind of endearing and refreshing that the Germans serve up such dull politicians. I guess Germans of all people have good reason to be wary of charismatic politicians.

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09-01-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
If German elections are anything like American elections, Steinbruck is far too uncharismatic to win this one.

On the other hand, I would have said the same thing about Merkel a few years ago.
You can't get less charismatic than Merkel. Unlike our teflon chancellor Steinbrück actually displays a personality and gives pointed answers. Unfortunately for him he just comes across as arrogant smartass. And since his party has been ruined by Schröder's move to the center people will vote the chancellor, not the ruling party. Steinbück is simply not likeable, and he will lose. Badly.

Although it's fairly unbelievable how someone like Merkel, a gray technocrat who inspires nobody and stands for nothing, and whose problem-solving consists of sitting out every crisis and ignore troubles until the people forget about them, can be so popular. I guess because she's pretty smart and unassuming people feel comfortable with her calling the shots. At least you can trust her not to **** up something too badly, because she never actually makes big moves.

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09-01-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
I haven't really been following it that closely, but Steinbruck just seems to have that loser stink on him. Who was before Steinbruck... Kurt Beck? Same deal. And the guy before him - was it Matthias Platzek? What a dull, non-confidence-inspiring group of politicians.

On the other hand it is kind of endearing and refreshing that the Germans serve up such dull politicians. I guess Germans of all people have good reason to be wary of charismatic politicians.
Yeah, Willy Brandt really ****ed them sideways.

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09-01-2013, 03:06 PM
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Yeah, Willy Brandt really ****ed them sideways.
Good one!

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09-01-2013, 04:58 PM
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Will be a big coalition. Steinbrueck already came out a year ago and basically admitted that the SPD was looking at a role as a coalition partner too the CDU. That guy destroyed any chance he had at being chancellor with this and later mistakes.

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09-01-2013, 11:02 PM
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Beware of the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises.

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09-21-2013, 11:35 PM
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So the election is tomorrow (polls close at noon EST) and although a CDU/CSU/SPD result seems the most likely, there is now an increasing possibility of an SPD/Green/Linke government, meaning that Merkel would get booted as Chancellor. Although not the most likely result, it is now possible, especially if the FDP falls below the 5% threshold needed for representation.

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09-22-2013, 02:30 AM
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Hey guys, outside of knowing Merkel, I know nothing about German politics. What I would really like to know is what a change in government would mean for Europe. If Merkel would fall to a coal too led by Steinbruck, would it change Germany's relations with the rest of the EU? Would it effect how Germany is dealing with the fiscal crises in Europe?

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09-22-2013, 02:45 AM
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It's very hard to actually remove Merkel from power. SPD, Grüne and Linke might get the numbers needed, if the FDP and AfD don't make it, but the parties have pretty much rejected forming a coalition, so they would have to break their word to get it done. Not that this has stopped anyone in the past.

SPD and Grüne would be very different when it comes to Europe. Merkel's position is 'we have agreements that should not be broken, everyone has to keep his debt in check by himself, though if you can get things done quietly behind the back you won't hear a word about it'. So a bit of help but no all out sharing. SPD and Grüne were all in favour of everyone sharing their debt. I don't think that idea is particularly smart, but then again, those two won't get into power anyway. The Left has a completely different stance towards Europe.

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09-22-2013, 04:25 AM
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this seems as good a place as any to ask just what the hell happened to all the panic over Greece and the PIIGS? Did Germany cough up the money to keep everything going? Last time I paid any attention to it the prevailing opinion was it was not a matter of if but when and how Greece would leave the euro.. and now we dont hear much of anything about it over here... is financial support of the failing nations in the EU the dominant issue in German elections or is everyone past that already?

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09-22-2013, 04:32 AM
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As a liberal I'd be quite sad if the largest and economically most influential country in Western Europe ended up not having any liberal party in it's parliament, even if the brand of liberalism promoted by the FDP differs quite a lot from my own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
this seems as good a place as any to ask just what the hell happened to all the panic over Greece and the PIIGS? Did Germany cough up the money to keep everything going? Last time I paid any attention to it the prevailing opinion was it was not a matter of if but when and how Greece would leave the euro.. and now we dont hear much of anything about it over here... is financial support of the failing nations in the EU the dominant issue in German elections or is everyone past that already?
Most of the alarmism surrounding the supposed collapse of the Euro was preached by people who want it to fail.

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09-22-2013, 07:57 AM
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As a liberal I'd be quite sad if the largest and economically most influential country in Western Europe ended up not having any liberal party in it's parliament, even if the brand of liberalism promoted by the FDP differs quite a lot from my own.


Most of the alarmism surrounding the supposed collapse of the Euro was preached by people who want it to fail.

This is just ********-talk dude. I agree that Germany needs a liberal Party, but just like the US we have forgotten what a liberal party should be about a long time ago.

The FDP was and is a *****, a **** of politics and the private economy, selling itself to any stronger power. They shouldn't make it there. Rösler and Brüderle are the biggest jokes on this planet.

And that alarmism is very legit, the Euro is creating problems for the weaker states in the EU. The richer states didn't have to play babysitter but are forced to do so. Aside all this, the rules have been broken so many times nobody really seems to care.

We'll end up with a big coalition here in Germany. Our political enviroment just went US bs, CDU and SPD are the same shait by now.

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09-22-2013, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
this seems as good a place as any to ask just what the hell happened to all the panic over Greece and the PIIGS? Did Germany cough up the money to keep everything going? Last time I paid any attention to it the prevailing opinion was it was not a matter of if but when and how Greece would leave the euro.. and now we dont hear much of anything about it over here... is financial support of the failing nations in the EU the dominant issue in German elections or is everyone past that already?
It is kept under the rug constantly, since it was election time. You can bet your ass on it, that in a couple of weeks a new package will be proposed to help the " financially ruined " states.

Schäuble said it couple of times, but very silently.

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09-22-2013, 12:27 PM
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Absolutely ridiculous. How can so many people support Merkel? All she and the CDU/CSU do is just sit on their hands for 4 years and not doing any necessary changes and reforms.
I hope the SPD does not go for a big coalition again if there is no majority for the CDU. 2009 was already a big enough joke where they got punished for trying to solve big problems while Merkel and Co. always avoid any inconvenient decisions. AfD voters should have their brains checked. That party has even more unrealistic goals than Die Linke.


Last edited by Sotty: 09-22-2013 at 12:36 PM.
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09-22-2013, 12:43 PM
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Absolutely ridiculous. How can so many people support Merkel? All she and the CDU/CSU do is just sit on their hands for 4 years and not doing any necessary changes and reforms.
"Move on, people. Nothing to see here. Mommy will handle it." And it works again and again.

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09-22-2013, 12:50 PM
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Absolutely ridiculous. How can so many people support Merkel? All she and the CDU/CSU do is just sit on their hands for 4 years and not doing any necessary changes and reforms.
I hope the SPD does not go for a big coalition again. 2009 was already a big enough joke where they got punished for trying to solve big problems while Merkel and Co. always avoid any inconvenient decisions. AfD voters should have their brains checked. That party has even more unrealistic goals than Die Linke.
Since when did the SPD try to solve big problems and got punished for it in 2009?
The last election came after a grand coalition, it was virtually impossible for the SPD to try to solve any problems while the CDU was only stalling, because those two were working together.

The SPD got punished way earlier, after Schröder's 'Agenda 2010', which, while turning out to be very much necessary and successful, wasn't very popular at that time. It was the own party and its usual allies turning against Schröder which cost them.

2009 was just the result of CDU-voters not seeing many reason to change anything, while SPD-voters were disappointed that the party couldn't really hold true to its principles while being just the minor partner in the coalition. In short, the CDU stayed put, while SPD-voters left in droves. The FDP got a big boost, because it was the only one of the bigger parties that hadn't been in government for quite some time (not counting the left, which had never been in government).

There wasn't really a reason for anyone to vote for a change of government. In most of the core areas, CDU and SPD weren't very far apart, caused in part by Merkel never really holding any obvious positions. In the few areas were there might be disagreement, the SPD isn't exactly having popular interest on its side.

Ultimate goals are irrelevant. Those who voted for the AFD don't necessarily want the AfD to reach its goals, they want someone who is critical of Europe and the Euro. Someone who listens to the normal citizen instead of having only big business and the EU in mind. There is no other party that does that, most go even more in the other direction, like the SPD or Greens. Add people who are merely protesting, and you get such a result.

it would be very ridiculous if people wouldn't support a party that might be able to represent what they want, just based on what can and cannot be accomplished. If everyone thought like you did, the Greens would have never made it anywhere, yet here they are.

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09-22-2013, 12:51 PM
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It really is ridiculous ... please AFD 0,1% more needed!

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09-22-2013, 01:02 PM
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it would be very ridiculous if people wouldn't support a party that might be able to represent what they want, just based on what can and cannot be accomplished. If everyone thought like you did, the Greens would have never made it anywhere, yet here they are.
Very good post. I agree totally.

We need 5 parties in there. Come on AFD

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09-22-2013, 01:08 PM
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Since when did the SPD try to solve big problems and got punished for it in 2009?
The last election came after a grand coalition, it was virtually impossible for the SPD to try to solve any problems while the CDU was only stalling, because those two were working together.

The SPD got punished way earlier, after Schröder's 'Agenda 2010', which, while turning out to be very much necessary and successful, wasn't very popular at that time. It was the own party and its usual allies turning against Schröder which cost them.

2009 was just the result of CDU-voters not seeing many reason to change anything, while SPD-voters were disappointed that the party couldn't really hold true to its principles while being just the minor partner in the coalition. In short, the CDU stayed put, while SPD-voters left in droves. The FDP got a big boost, because it was the only one of the bigger parties that hadn't been in government for quite some time (not counting the left, which had never been in government).

There wasn't really a reason for anyone to vote for a change of government. In most of the core areas, CDU and SPD weren't very far apart, caused in part by Merkel never really holding any obvious positions. In the few areas were there might be disagreement, the SPD isn't exactly having popular interest on its side.

Ultimate goals are irrelevant. Those who voted for the AFD don't necessarily want the AfD to reach its goals, they want someone who is critical of Europe and the Euro. Someone who listens to the normal citizen instead of having only big business and the EU in mind. There is no other party that does that, most go even more in the other direction, like the SPD or Greens. Add people who are merely protesting, and you get such a result.

it would be very ridiculous if people wouldn't support a party that might be able to represent what they want, just based on what can and cannot be accomplished. If everyone thought like you did, the Greens would have never made it anywhere, yet here they are.
Sure the main problem for the SPD was the "Agenda 2010", but that was not decision beeing made during the coalition with the CDU, which was my point. During the coalition the SPD got heavily criticized for the "Gesundheitsreform" unlike the CDU.

If you vote for the AfD you are basically throwing away your vote. There is not a single party that will ever take them serious, so it would not even matter what their voters want. Most of the Like voters are basically protest voters and it doesn't seem to bother the SPD and Grüne that much.
It is highly unlikely that anyone will ever create a coalition with die Linke on a federal level and the AfD has virtually no chance.
You can't compare the situation to the Greens back then. When they were founded there was not a single party covering most of their goals/topics. Right now you have CDU, SPD, FDP(well until now ), Greens and Die Like covering all political areas. There is simply no place for another party to break into that. Just look at the Piraten. Once the people realize that they don't have much to offer besides some unrealistic populist goals the voters will go back to the usual parties.

If people want to show their dissatisfaction they should simply for one of the popular opposition parties or simply not vote and show their dissatisfaction with a low vote turnout. There is a reason why there is a 5%-hurdle and it seems it is still not enough.


Last edited by Sotty: 09-22-2013 at 01:18 PM.
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