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Old
09-08-2013, 11:28 PM
  #1
Vatican Roulette
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Stl-nyi

St. Louis: Strome, Reinhart, Nielson

NYI: Pietrangelo, Berglund.

Reasoning:

St. Louis gets that center they need with Backes, plus a great d prospect and a good 3rd line center signed cheap for a few years.

Isles get that #1 dman and a 2nd line center who's RFA next year.


Expanded reasoning:

St. Louis has a great puck moving dman in Shattenkirk, with Schmaltz not to far off. They could use a dman like Reinhart in their stable. They also get that premium center prospect they've been longing for, which takes some of the pressure off Backes and allows for better match-ups. Nielson slots as the 3rd line center for 3 years at a great cap hit. St. Louis has plenty of good Wing prospects and players which would make their 3rd line much more of a 2nd line tweeners/shutdown.

Isles get a #1 dman. They just drafted Pulock, and still retain a solid stable of dman after the trade. Berglund battles Nelson for ice time in the top 6, the loser slotting in on the third line. The Isles also have a great group of young forwards that are in the NHL, and several coming up.


I know the whole offer sheet thing will come up, but could we please just leave it out of this proposal?

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09-08-2013, 11:31 PM
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The Blues don't do this.

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:31 PM
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Ouch.. Blues wouldn't ever do this

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:35 PM
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Why would the Blues do this?

Pietrangelo has close value to Tavares.

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09-08-2013, 11:35 PM
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I more than likely do this.

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:36 PM
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Terrible for the Blues.

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:36 PM
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I more than likely do this.
No kidding

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rypien37 View Post
Ouch.. Blues wouldn't ever do this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
The Blues don't do this.
Ok, thanks for the reasoning...

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:37 PM
  #9
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Credit for giving up quality pieces, but the Blues still wouldn't do this. We are looking to compete right now and adding a couple of players that are still probably a year or two out from being impact players at NHL level doesn't really work.

Also, Nielsen is a good player but a little redundant to the Blues considering we could have Sobotka as our #3C in that situation.

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09-08-2013, 11:40 PM
  #10
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We'd make out like bandits on this one. I don't think all those pieces alone would Pietro, let alone Berglund too. 23 year old #1D, not even in his prime? Yeaaaah St. Louis would be mad to trade him. Isles don't have the pieces to get him without gutting the team or trading Tavares....neither of which are happening.

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Why would the Blues do this?

Pietrangelo has close value to Tavares.
Really. A player that is signed till 2017 at a 5.5 cap hit, #1 center, face of the franchise...

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Credit for giving up quality pieces, but the Blues still wouldn't do this. We are looking to compete right now and adding a couple of players that are still probably a year or two out from being impact players at NHL level doesn't really work.
While Reinhart still needs a year or two before he's ready, Strome is one of the top prospects in the league and he's essentially NHL ready. Nielsen has established himself as a solid NHL player as well.

While I'd love to have Pietrangelo on the Isles... finances don't work. The three players for the Isles are cost controlled for the next 3 years and will make less combined than what Pietro is expected to make in his next contract. That is no small factor for the Isles who are looking to build from within.

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Credit for giving up quality pieces, but the Blues still wouldn't do this. We are looking to compete right now and adding a couple of players that are still probably a year or two out from being impact players at NHL level doesn't really work.

Also, Nielsen is a good player but a little redundant to the Blues considering we could have Sobotka as our #3C in that situation.
Thank you for being the first to comment.

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09-08-2013, 11:45 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
While Reinhart still needs a year or two before he's ready, Strome is one of the top prospects in the league and he's essentially NHL ready. Nielsen has established himself as a solid NHL player as well.

While I'd love to have Pietrangelo on the Isles... finances don't work. The three players for the Isles are cost controlled for the next 3 years and will make less combined than what Pietro is expected to make in his next contract. That is no small factor for the Isles who are looking to build from within.
Again, thank you for commenting, not just saying no.

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
Really. A player that is signed till 2017 at a 5.5 cap hit, #1 center, face of the franchise...
Simply put, yes.

Pietro's contract remains to be seen, and will probably carry a higher cap hit (<=7M?) but also likely to run 8 years. But the short version is that you should think about the Blues parting with Pietro in the same light as the Islanders parting with Tavares.

The early respondents were trying to be polite instead of flaming the original proposal. But don't get snippy. Its just a really bad deal from the Blues perspective.

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Old
09-08-2013, 11:54 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Simply put, yes.

Pietro's contract remains to be seen, and will probably carry a higher cap hit (<=7M?) but also likely to run 8 years. But the short version is that you should think about the Blues parting with Pietro in the same light as the Islanders parting with Tavares.

The early respondents were trying to be polite instead of flaming the original proposal. But don't get snippy. Its just a really bad deal from the Blues perspective.
See, IMO, I don't see it like that. The Blues for years have been trying to get a solid offense that would lead the to the cup. What they got, now, is a dman holding out for more money than they are willing to pay him. If he wants 7 a year, and the blues are not going to pay it, while not deal him for assets that will build the team? Especially if they fill a long term need.

And I did think about the Blues with Pie, and the Isles with Tavares. One negotiated a reasonable contract, the other is holding out. In this deal, the Isles make a statement to the league, and so do the Blues.

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:09 AM
  #17
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Ok, thanks for the reasoning...
Snippy or not it is a bad proposal.

The Blues are not in the position to make a quality for quantity proposal, because they are in a win now mode.

Playoff teams expecting/needing to do damage in the playoffs need players with experience and frankly none of these NYI kids have it.

The Blues finally got their defense set and have a potential future Norris winner to anchor it, only to turnaround and make a gaping hole there?

There is really no need for Reinhart. If Petro were traded we would need a lot more that Reinhart to help ease the gap.

Finally, the value is not there. Petro is head and shoulders above all of the players coming back. Sure Strome could be a valuable piece, but it is not a given and I cannot see how he would ever be as good as Petro. Then we add Berglund on top of that?

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:11 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
See, IMO, I don't see it like that. The Blues for years have been trying to get a solid offense that would lead the to the cup. What they got, now, is a dman holding out for more money than they are willing to pay him. If he wants 7 a year, and the blues are not going to pay it, while not deal him for assets that will build the team? Especially if they fill a long term need.

And I did think about the Blues with Pie, and the Isles with Tavares. One negotiated a reasonable contract, the other is holding out. In this deal, the Isles make a statement to the league, and so do the Blues.
When was the last time a team won the cup without a #1D? Probably the Hurricanes. Pietrangelo is taking a long time to sign, but so did Doughty and Subban. Pietrangelo is the face of the franchise, he's not going anywhere.

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09-09-2013, 12:17 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
See, IMO, I don't see it like that. The Blues for years have been trying to get a solid offense that would lead the to the cup. What they got, now, is a dman holding out for more money than they are willing to pay him. If he wants 7 a year, and the blues are not going to pay it, while not deal him for assets that will build the team? Especially if they fill a long term need.

And I did think about the Blues with Pie, and the Isles with Tavares. One negotiated a reasonable contract, the other is holding out. In this deal, the Isles make a statement to the league, and so do the Blues.
So how would subtracting Petro and Berglund's offense and adding Strome and Neilson's make us any better offensively? I am not seeing it.

Why would the Blues trade a cornerstone player for pieces that will in all likelihood make them worse?

The Blues are not in the business of making moves just to make league wide statements.

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:19 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
St. Louis: Strome, Reinhart, Nielson

NYI: Pietrangelo, Berglund.

Reasoning:

St. Louis gets that center they need with Backes, plus a great d prospect and a good 3rd line center signed cheap for a few years.

Isles get that #1 dman and a 2nd line center who's RFA next year.


Expanded reasoning:

St. Louis has a great puck moving dman in Shattenkirk, with Schmaltz not to far off. They could use a dman like Reinhart in their stable. They also get that premium center prospect they've been longing for, which takes some of the pressure off Backes and allows for better match-ups. Nielson slots as the 3rd line center for 3 years at a great cap hit. St. Louis has plenty of good Wing prospects and players which would make their 3rd line much more of a 2nd line tweeners/shutdown.

Isles get a #1 dman. They just drafted Pulock, and still retain a solid stable of dman after the trade. Berglund battles Nelson for ice time in the top 6, the loser slotting in on the third line. The Isles also have a great group of young forwards that are in the NHL, and several coming up.


I know the whole offer sheet thing will come up, but could we please just leave it out of this proposal?
That's not even close. We give up our best player and a very good center for two prospects and a third line center? Armstrong would never make that deal.


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Old
09-09-2013, 12:20 AM
  #21
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Yikes. Terrible for the Blues. Pietrangelo is already a top 10 defenseman in the league, and still has room to grow. Teams don't trade away Norris-caliber defensemen before they turn 24, signed, or unsigned.

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:21 AM
  #22
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See, IMO, I don't see it like that. The Blues for years have been trying to get a solid offense that would lead the to the cup. What they got, now, is a dman holding out for more money than they are willing to pay him. If he wants 7 a year, and the blues are not going to pay it, while not deal him for assets that will build the team? Especially if they fill a long term need.

And I did think about the Blues with Pie, and the Isles with Tavares. One negotiated a reasonable contract, the other is holding out. In this deal, the Isles make a statement to the league, and so do the Blues.

Yeah it was a bad proposal. First Petro isin't "a dman holding out" He's number one face of the franchise, young with room to grow d man who doesn't have a contract yet. Just because he hasn't signed yet doesn't mean he hates the city or he won't sign. Several GMS around the league seem to be playing chicken with their young players of late because of a) cap concerns b) a desire to see the return of the "bridge" contract.

Secondly the Blues are a contender not a rebuilding team even without Petro they're a contender and not looking to sell off for futures. The argument of well Reinharts a stud prospect (he is) he has so much potential he could be anything even Petro just doesn't work for them, that's not their situation.

Finally it just seems like the reasoning of an Isles fan trying to sell the other team on something that isin't right for them based on their own teams needs or desire.

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:24 AM
  #23
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Yeah it was a bad proposal. First Petro isin't "a dman holding out" He's number one face of the franchise, young with room to grow d man who doesn't have a contract yet. Just because he hasn't signed yet doesn't mean he hates the city or he won't sign. Several GMS around the league seem to be playing chicken with their young players of late because of a) cap concerns b) a desire to see the return of the "bridge" contract.

Secondly the Blues are a contender not a rebuilding team even without Petro they're a contender and not looking to sell off for futures. The argument of well Reinharts a stud prospect (he is) he has so much potential he could be anything even Petro just doesn't work for them, that's not their situation.

Finally it just seems like the reasoning of an Isles fan trying to sell the other team on something that isin't right for them based on their own teams needs or desire.
Strongly agree with that.

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:29 AM
  #24
Vatican Roulette
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Snippy or not it is a bad proposal.

The Blues are not in the position to make a quality for quantity proposal, because they are in a win now mode.
they've been in " win now mode" for the past how many years?
Playoff teams expecting/needing to do damage in the playoffs need players with experience and frankly none of these NYI kids have it.

fair enough

The Blues finally got their defense set and have a potential future Norris winner to anchor it, only to turnaround and make a gaping hole there?

What gaping hole are you talking about? They have Bouwmeester and Shattenkirk which is a fine 1st pairing, and plenty of defensive depth.

There is really no need for Reinhart. If Petro were traded we would need a lot more that Reinhart to help ease the gap.
Youre right, the Blues have a great stable of dman. None of them have the pedigree of Reinhart.

Finally, the value is not there. Petro is head and shoulders above all of the players coming back. Sure Strome could be a valuable piece, but it is not a given and I cannot see how he would ever be as good as Petro. Then we add Berglund on top of that?
BS. The value is there. Strome is the center the Blues need to contend in the future, right handed to boot, Reinhart gives them the solid defenseman that isn't a RH offensive dman(Jackman replacement) and Nielson gives them more center depth.

It's not like I proposed 2 2nds and a 3rd...

Also, the Blues don't have a 7 million dollar dman, something that doesn't jive with their structure.

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:33 AM
  #25
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Strongly agree with that.
Not a fan of either. Wings fan.

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