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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIII: The Return of Michael Jordan

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09-24-2013, 01:33 PM
  #351
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Girardi and Staal are very physical Dmen for starters and they each play half the game or did under Torts.

1. I say physical play LEADS to good defense in a sense. I stated why several times and don't feel like repeating.
2. I'm sure other posters value physical play but not to the extent I feel they should and some not even close.
3. I guess that depends on your definition of being "harder to play against". I think its a safe assumption that when that phrase is thrown around it correlates directly to toughness and physical play.
Girardi and Staal are on the Scuderi level of physicality. They're smotherers, not hitters.

1. In Erskine's case, physical play does not lead to good defense, because he doesn't really play good defense. There are also plenty of times when going for a hit, for instance, pulls a player out of good defensive position and opens the whole team up.
2. I'd go so far as to say that there's not a single poster on here that wouldn't prefer that every one of our defensemen had an intimidating physical presence. But most would prefer to prevent goals.
3. I think being harder to play against is directly related to preventing a team from executing their system. That usually involves shutting down passing and shooting lanes and taking away time and space in the defensive zone.

The biggest takeaway from this whole discussion is that if Erskine were good defensively, you wouldn't hear a peep negative about him from the vast majority of posters.

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09-24-2013, 01:41 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Mystlyfe hockey knowledge>>>>Adam Oates

My bad
You're missing my point, as usual. Your argument essentially boils down to an appeal to authority, which is not only a logical fallacy, but is reliant upon a couple press clippings from coaches with multiple agendas in play. What do you expect Oates and Calle to say to the media? That Erskine sucks? That they don't feel like the defense they were given can compete?

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09-24-2013, 01:54 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
You're missing my point, as usual. Your argument essentially boils down to an appeal to authority, which is not only a logical fallacy, but is reliant upon a couple press clippings from coaches with multiple agendas in play. What do you expect Oates and Calle to say to the media? That Erskine sucks? That they don't feel like the defense they were given can compete?
Hunter and BB essentially had the same Dmen to work with. Guess what? Oates and Calle Jo valued him higher than the guys like Schultz and put him in a top 4 role last year. Clearly the like what Erskine brings more than his predecessors.

Their actions back up their words. They like Erskine alot. GMGM likes him alot since he is being resigned constantly.

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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Girardi and Staal are on the Scuderi level of physicality. They're smotherers, not hitters.

1. In Erskine's case, physical play does not lead to good defense, because he doesn't really play good defense. There are also plenty of times when going for a hit, for instance, pulls a player out of good defensive position and opens the whole team up.
2. I'd go so far as to say that there's not a single poster on here that wouldn't prefer that every one of our defensemen had an intimidating physical presence. But most would prefer to prevent goals.
3. I think being harder to play against is directly related to preventing a team from executing their system. That usually involves shutting down passing and shooting lanes and taking away time and space in the defensive zone.

The biggest takeaway from this whole discussion is that if Erskine were good defensively, you wouldn't hear a peep negative about him from the vast majority of posters.
I don't know about that Girardi and Staal are much more physical than Scuderi from what I see. I know Girardi always seems to be hovering around the league leaders in hits tho Staal has been injured a bunch lately.

Our D looked brutal last year without Erskine in the lineup. Throwing up no hitter after 1 hitter. It was disgusting to see personally and the scores of the games reflected it.

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09-24-2013, 02:02 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Hunter and BB essentially had the same Dmen to work with. Guess what? Oates and Calle Jo valued him higher than the guys like Schultz and put him in a top 4 role last year. Clearly the like what Erskine brings more than his predecessors.

Their actions back up their words. They like Erskine alot. GMGM likes him alot since he is being resigned constantly.
Circumstantial evidence, at best. Hamrlik was not the same player last year that he was the year before, and it's obvious to everyone that Schultz both regressed in recent years and was a poor fit for Oates' system. Schultz, for as maligned as he is, used to be a useful player. Limited? Absolutely, but there was a point where he was worthy of an everyday roster spot.

Also, there's been far more turnover on the blueline in recent years than you're giving credit for. Alzner, Carlson, Erskine, and Green are still around, but otherwise it's been a revolving door. Hannan, Hamrlik, Schultz, Wideman, Oleksy, Kundratek, Hillen, Sloan, Poti, etc. And that's not even touching upon the ShaMo/Jurcina/etc era prior to the arrival of Carlzner.

E; Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_...l_to_authority


Last edited by Hivemind: 09-24-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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09-24-2013, 02:06 PM
  #355
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And that's sidestepping the biggest factor: Oates, smart as he is, can still be wrong. He played the game, which means he's had all the same old narratives driven into him for years and years from coaches and in locker rooms, and he's got similar emotional biases that many other "in the game" types do. The things he wants aren't always going to be the right things. He's as likely to put improper value on some things as anyone else is.

Him (or GMGM) liking Erskine doesn't mean anything, not until you get an explanation of "why" beyond just throwaway press scrum stuff.

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09-24-2013, 02:06 PM
  #356
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I don't know about that Girardi and Staal are much more physical than Scuderi from what I see. I know Girardi always seems to be hovering around the league leaders in hits tho Staal has been injured a bunch lately.

Our D looked brutal last year without Erskine in the lineup. Throwing up no hitter after 1 hitter. It was disgusting to see personally and the scores of the games reflected it.
Hits are a notoriously poorly kept stat, as there's no consistency from arena to arena. Even if they're scored properly, a 'hit' is defined as when a player forces another to lose the puck through physical contact. So it will always be biased towards teams that cede possession to the opposition, and doesn't indicate how physically punishing a player is at all.

I won't argue that the Caps' alternatives at LD don't suck. That's why Oates doesn't have many options for the 2LD spot.

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09-24-2013, 02:38 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The biggest takeaway from this whole discussion is that if Erskine were good defensively, you wouldn't hear a peep negative about him from the vast majority of posters.
winner

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09-24-2013, 07:00 PM
  #358
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We're coming up on 5 hours and NBTW's 'value of Erskine' thread on the trade boards has not received a single response...

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09-24-2013, 07:15 PM
  #359
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We're coming up on 5 hours and NBTW's 'value of Erskine' thread on the trade boards has not received a single response...
72 people have viewed it though.


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09-24-2013, 07:21 PM
  #360
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I guess not many are interested in the player?

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09-24-2013, 07:23 PM
  #361
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72 crawler hits

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09-24-2013, 07:31 PM
  #362
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I guess not many are interested in the player?
If we still had Sloan to add to the package there would be a lot more interest, Slerskine....

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09-24-2013, 08:22 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
We're coming up on 5 hours and NBTW's 'value of Erskine' thread on the trade boards has not received a single response...
We have our first reply!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by varano View Post
I really don't know much about him
Isn't he a goon?



Well, at least we have that one time he handily defeated Matt Carkner in a poll.

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09-24-2013, 09:26 PM
  #364
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GMGM mentioned in an interview today that they're likely going to have to make a trade to clear salary. Who gets cut?

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09-24-2013, 10:00 PM
  #365
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GMGM mentioned in an interview today that they're likely going to have to make a trade to clear salary. Who gets cut?
Volpatti's the easy one to start with. Obviously maybe you look at someone more significant if there's a real trade with real assets out there, but you can just waive Volpatti and stick him in Hershey. Not a huge risk he'd get claimed, and even if he did he wouldn't be difficult to replace. That opens up enough space for Wilson using a 22 man roster and dipping into the bonus cushion.

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09-24-2013, 10:03 PM
  #366
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I'm hoping it's Neuvirth, but that's unlikely.
Part of me wants it to be Erskine so I can see how BobRouse flips out when the team isn't appreciably worse without him.
Serious guess if there's a trade, it would be Chimera, though I'm not terribly happy about it.
Minimally, Volpatti on waivers.

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09-24-2013, 10:13 PM
  #367
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personally, I think its Fehr.

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09-24-2013, 10:34 PM
  #368
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I'm betting on Beagle.

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09-24-2013, 10:36 PM
  #369
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I second Chimera. Hopefully it's not Ward.

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09-24-2013, 10:42 PM
  #370
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personally, I think its Fehr.
Makes sense, logjam at rw.

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09-24-2013, 11:26 PM
  #371
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I'm betting on Beagle.
Exactly who came to mind for me. Like the guy but I thought he proved he was easily replaceable last season....

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09-24-2013, 11:49 PM
  #372
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I'd be happy to see Beagle move, $900k is a lot for how he's been playing post-KTFO.

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09-24-2013, 11:52 PM
  #373
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Beagle's the only player on the team even close to a faceoff specialist and the only RH center (aside of Fehr). I have some doubts that McPhee would move him.

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09-24-2013, 11:54 PM
  #374
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Hey. I bet a thread in the main boards about the value of a faceoff specialist would generate more interest than the one about the value of John Erskine....

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09-25-2013, 12:11 AM
  #375
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Beagle's the only player on the team even close to a faceoff specialist and the only RH center (aside of Fehr). I have some doubts that McPhee would move him.
I don't know. Fehr moving to center, Latta getting more preseason ice-time. It seems to me Oates isn't crazy about Beagle as a player.

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