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09-10-2013, 03:09 PM
  #451
TCL40
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
If Seguin helped them win another Cup and was growing into his potential he could have danced naked every day on Boston Common and the Bruins would have found a way to keep him. They traded him because he wasn't producing, and they saw little improvement. The off-ice stuff certainly didn't help, but he wasn't traded just because of that.
Yep.

Going to a Kane comparison-it's pretty clear Kane loves to party and has probably done as much if not more with off ice antics (pretty sure Seguin hasn't punched a cabbie over 4 cents). But Kane on the ice was productive.

Seguin's off ice antics would have been tolerated (at least from a trade perspective coaching staff still may have been on him over it) had he been progressing and productive. The comments in the meeting most focused on his lack of on ice progression. Neely made the comment about coaches speaking to him about off ice stuff but everything else was about his play and progression as a player.

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09-10-2013, 03:13 PM
  #452
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Why? From all accounts, he's a tremendous veteran leader, well-liked and respected in the room, and with Ference gone, they'll need that leadership. Personally, I hope he has a great season and helps them win another Cup, as he did in '11.
I would respond why, but I realize you have that annoying need to come to rush to every Bruins defense over the smallest slights. It's not about hockey for you, it's about defending their honor. That's not worth my time.

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09-10-2013, 03:13 PM
  #453
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Loved it!
Whitesides and Tuukka

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09-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #454
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It's the new style of drama documentary that's becoming popular. ESPN does it now and so does the UFC with it's reality show.
The b's are basically copying Oil Change that EDM does.

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09-10-2013, 03:23 PM
  #455
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I would respond why, but I realize you have that annoying need to come to rush to every Bruins defense over the smallest slights. It's not about hockey for you, it's about defending their honor. That's not worth my time.
Nonsense.

Kelly was acquired for a second-round draft pick. Coming off a down year, the Bruins would get little more than that if they attempted to trade him now. Meanwhile, they have lost a veteran leader, along with a regular penalty-killer, and two of their centers (also both PKers) are coming off severe injuries. Not to mention that with a NTC, their trade options would be limited. This has nothing to do with defending anyone's honor; it has to do with what makes the Bruins the best team possible. A solid contribution from Kelly is the ideal situation, not dumping him.

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09-10-2013, 03:58 PM
  #456
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Nonsense.

Kelly was acquired for a second-round draft pick. Coming off a down year, the Bruins would get little more than that if they attempted to trade him now. Meanwhile, they have lost a veteran leader, along with a regular penalty-killer, and two of their centers (also both PKers) are coming off severe injuries. Not to mention that with a NTC, their trade options would be limited. This has nothing to do with defending anyone's honor; it has to do with what makes the Bruins the best team possible. A solid contribution from Kelly is the ideal situation, not dumping him.
Just wanted to point out that although we did lose Ference's leadership, we did gain Iginla's.

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09-10-2013, 04:12 PM
  #457
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Just wanted to point out that although we did lose Ference's leadership, we did gain Iginla's.
And that's great. But Iginla didn't win a Cup with them. I doubt he's handed an "A."

The point is, you're not going to gain greater or equal value for Kelly at this time. And if you deal him for picks or prospects, who takes his place? I love Spooner, but is he ready to take over for Kelly, full-time? Would you bet on that? Or is Koko ready? I don't think so.

If I'm a Bruins fan, I don't want Kelly dumped. I want him playing well. If that's being a "homer," I suppose I'm guilty.

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09-10-2013, 04:13 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
If Seguin helped them win another Cup and was growing into his potential he could have danced naked every day on Boston Common and the Bruins would have found a way to keep him. They traded him because he wasn't producing, and they saw little improvement. The off-ice stuff certainly didn't help, but he wasn't traded just because of that.
He was traded because his off ice antics apparently played a role in his lack of production. Obviously they edited out a lot of the off ice conversation as Neely said it was his lack of on ice improvement and off ice stuff and then goes on explaining just the on ice stuff on camera. I am sure if Tyler was a dedicated professional and busted butt and was working hard to get better they would have gave him a longer leash rather than a partying kid who didnt seem like he wanted to put the work in.

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09-10-2013, 04:30 PM
  #459
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He was traded because his off ice antics apparently played a role in his lack of production. Obviously they edited out a lot of the off ice conversation as Neely said it was his lack of on ice improvement and off ice stuff and then goes on explaining just the on ice stuff on camera. I am sure if Tyler was a dedicated professional and busted butt and was working hard to get better they would have gave him a longer leash rather than a partying kid who didnt seem like he wanted to put the work in.
Oh, no argument. Undoubtedly his off-ice behavior contributed to his on-ice struggles. Just noting that IF he had been one of rare athletes who could play the fool off-ice (or off-field, what have you) and still score 40 goals a year, or win the Conn Smyth, he'd still be in Boston.

The Yankees certainly knew that Babe Ruth overindulged in food, drink and women, but they held on to him because he was Babe Ruth. Not too many like him, though.

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09-10-2013, 04:32 PM
  #460
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He was traded because his off ice antics apparently played a role in his lack of production. Obviously they edited out a lot of the off ice conversation as Neely said it was his lack of on ice improvement and off ice stuff and then goes on explaining just the on ice stuff on camera. I am sure if Tyler was a dedicated professional and busted butt and was working hard to get better they would have gave him a longer leash rather than a partying kid who didnt seem like he wanted to put the work in.
If he had scored 10 goals in the last 26 games versus 1,he'd still be here. Benning said it,his non production cost us the cup!

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09-10-2013, 04:41 PM
  #461
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If he had scored 10 goals in the last 26 games versus 1,he'd still be here. Benning said it,his non production cost us the cup!
Correct and fairly or unfairly the Bruins braintrust felt his off ice activitied negatively effected the team and thus was traded. "Too many Red Flags"....is a worrisome comment that was uttered especially since superstar players with his talent level always get an extra long leash because they are so talented.

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09-10-2013, 04:43 PM
  #462
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Just caught this and it was a great watch.
Was way more in depth than the Pen's "Inside The Room".

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09-10-2013, 04:43 PM
  #463
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Oh, no argument. Undoubtedly his off-ice behavior contributed to his on-ice struggles. Just noting that IF he had been one of rare athletes who could play the fool off-ice (or off-field, what have you) and still score 40 goals a year, or win the Conn Smyth, he'd still be in Boston.

The Yankees certainly knew that Babe Ruth overindulged in food, drink and women, but they held on to him because he was Babe Ruth. Not too many like him, though.
Totally agree. Its about PRODUCING and Seguin didnt produce and therefore they took at a hard look at why he wasnt producing and felt the off ice stuff was certainly a factor. If he was drunk as a skunk and scoring goals all over the place he still is here.

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09-10-2013, 04:46 PM
  #464
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Just caught this and it was a great watch.
Was way more in depth than the Pen's "Inside The Room".
Thanks for the input. Nice to have a non-Bruins fan's POV.

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09-10-2013, 04:53 PM
  #465
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Thanks for the input. Nice to have a non-Bruins fan's POV.
Yea, it was great.

Just as a sidenote, you can really see what makes the Bruins a perrenial contender. Other than the cap crunch and hard decisions being made, you can really see the good cop/bad cop implements of the organization. Great to see in comparison to a certain country club atmosphere on a certain other team

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09-10-2013, 05:34 PM
  #466
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And that's great. But Iginla didn't win a Cup with them. I doubt he's handed an "A."

The point is, you're not going to gain greater or equal value for Kelly at this time. And if you deal him for picks or prospects, who takes his place? I love Spooner, but is he ready to take over for Kelly, full-time? Would you bet on that? Or is Koko ready? I don't think so.

If I'm a Bruins fan, I don't want Kelly dumped. I want him playing well. If that's being a "homer," I suppose I'm guilty.
the thing is you never know if the kids are ready until they get a chance to play. You can't always count on someone to get injured for that opportunity to come, so occasionally you have to part ways with a player who no longer fits into the team's long-term plan. I don't know if Kelly is at that point yet, but looking at the big picture it sure seems like he's the next in line.

Nobody here wanted to see Ference go, but the writing was on the wall that he was going to cost too much and take up a spot preventing the kids from getting to play. Suggesting that Kelly is potentially in a similar situation doesn't mean I want to see him go, but at a certain point you kind of have to gamble and give the reigns to one of the prospects or else they will never grow. (and you need them to grow or else the whole team will eventually be old and you'll have no one waiting in the wings to keep the team competitive.)

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09-10-2013, 05:37 PM
  #467
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...

One thing that really surprised me, was them saying "we have to make room" for Bartkowski and Krug. They have more confidence than I do...

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09-10-2013, 05:50 PM
  #468
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They are NOT splitting the second A this year. Kelly is your 3rd A! #stateofthebruins

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09-10-2013, 05:54 PM
  #469
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...

One thing that really surprised me, was them saying "we have to make room" for Bartkowski and Krug. They have more confidence than I do...
Well to some degree there does come a time when you have to give the kids a chance. I think if the cap was not a concern they would have kept Andy another year or two-they had nothing but high praise for him and his character but the cap was a concern and the team believes Krug and/or Bart are ready to step in and play.

My confidence isn't super high (teams has been burned before when it comes to youth making the transition) but then it is essentially a bottom 3 D-man they need to replace and I think Krug/Bart/some other guy can do that. I think the leadership void is where Andy will be missed the most-oh and his absolute Bruins attitude towards team.

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09-10-2013, 06:11 PM
  #470
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I was surprised by Bradley's comments in regards to Seguin. Basically if Seguin produced like Patrick Kane the Bruins win the Cup.
Patrick Kane playoffs 2010-2011 G1 A5 2011-2012 G0 A4
Patrick Kane is 25
Tyler Seguin is 21
Hey Bradley if you guys ever find the patience to wait out one of the 18 year old you will have a player at 24 or 25.
Oh and how many goals did Marchand have in the finals?
What were Kane's playoff numbers when he was 20,21 and 24?

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09-10-2013, 06:12 PM
  #471
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I'm an Oilers fan and watched the episode on the youtube link you guys provided and I have to say it's quite good.

It is pretty much exactly what Oil Change is for us. The beginning 20 or so minutes shows why you guys are a perennial favorite. Your management team talks about a culture and style of play that has been successful and you guys live by it.

Loved the segment about Seguin though, obviously they can't include everything that was said due to respect and privacy, but I'm sure there were more harsh words thrown around before he was moved.

Good stuff. You can't expect much more than that.

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09-10-2013, 06:14 PM
  #472
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Well to some degree there does come a time when you have to give the kids a chance. I think if the cap was not a concern they would have kept Andy another year or two-they had nothing but high praise for him and his character but the cap was a concern and the team believes Krug and/or Bart are ready to step in and play.

My confidence isn't super high (teams has been burned before when it comes to youth making the transition) but then it is essentially a bottom 3 D-man they need to replace and I think Krug/Bart/some other guy can do that. I think the leadership void is where Andy will be missed the most-oh and his absolute Bruins attitude towards team.
maybe it's silly, but I honestly hope Ference took someone like Bart or McQuaid aside and said "listen, you don't have to be the best fighter on the team, but just remember to always be the first guy to stick up for a teammate". That's definitely what I'll miss most about him.

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09-10-2013, 06:40 PM
  #473
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the thing is you never know if the kids are ready until they get a chance to play. You can't always count on someone to get injured for that opportunity to come, so occasionally you have to part ways with a player who no longer fits into the team's long-term plan. I don't know if Kelly is at that point yet, but looking at the big picture it sure seems like he's the next in line.

Nobody here wanted to see Ference go, but the writing was on the wall that he was going to cost too much and take up a spot preventing the kids from getting to play. Suggesting that Kelly is potentially in a similar situation doesn't mean I want to see him go, but at a certain point you kind of have to gamble and give the reigns to one of the prospects or else they will never grow. (and you need them to grow or else the whole team will eventually be old and you'll have no one waiting in the wings to keep the team competitive.)
Some key differences - Ference was a free agent and Kelly is not, and Bart and Krug have more NHL experience (and are older) than Spooner and Koko.

Organizational depth is part of what makes great franchises. If you get rid of Kelly and hand a center job to Spooner, what happens if Krejci or Bergeron miss significant time? If you've got Spooner in the minors, you've got some key insurance. It's only his second pro year. Some more time in the AHL won't hurt him. If he spends a few months in Providence and rips the league apart, then you can promote him.

Nice to see the report that Kelly has the second "A." I think the Bruins value him more than some fans. I hope he got an ovation when that was announced.

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09-10-2013, 06:40 PM
  #474
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maybe it's silly, but I honestly hope Ference took someone like Bart or McQuaid aside and said "listen, you don't have to be the best fighter on the team, but just remember to always be the first guy to stick up for a teammate". That's definitely what I'll miss most about him.
maybe he said it to bart but mcquaid will already do that.
wasnt it ference who was hit by raffes and mcquaid went after him?

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09-10-2013, 06:45 PM
  #475
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maybe he said it to bart but mcquaid will already do that.
wasnt it ference who was hit by raffes and mcquaid went after him?
I don't recall exactly, but I was watching the ECF on the NHL Network recently and some Penguin went after Krug in a scrum, and Kelly was on the guy like white on rice.

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