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Old
12-02-2013, 02:40 PM
  #826
The Gloaming
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Not sure if you were around in 2007...but the Flyers and just about every other team were taking runs @ Jagr and just about everyone else on the team...of course we had no answers because Sather was in charge back then...we claim Orr...he drops Fedeoruk and all of a sudden the ice opens up a little more.

If you guys never played the game or any sport...intimidation at every level exist.

I am done talking about this ****...you guys win...let all be happy with a .500 record.

I don't know who is dumber Sather or the fans.
So just because someone has a different philosophy on building a hockey team than you do, they're dumb. Guess that makes you the smartest hockey mind in the world. Wonder why you're not a GM?

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12-02-2013, 02:47 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How has Detroit managed to have all this success over the years with such little reliance on tough guys?
Three 500-goal scorers, two of the best defensemen of all-time, one of the best goaltenders of all-time, and they still had to call on guys like Shanny, Avery, Chelios, McCarty, Kocur to handle the rough stuff throughout the years. Every championship iteration of the Wings excluding 2007-2008 had their fair share of toughness.

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12-02-2013, 02:50 PM
  #828
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Well, the Rangers have stockpiled players and personnel from Columbus, so modeling their roster after Nashville would be step up from that.
Zing! Like it

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12-02-2013, 02:50 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How has Detroit managed to have all this success over the years with such little reliance on tough guys?
let's see...the 1997 team had shanny, maltby, Lapointe, Darren McCarthy, Konstantinov

1998,same lineup with Kocur

2002, Shanny, malbty McCarthy, Uwe Krupp

2008, Dan Cleary, Aaron Downey, Jonathan Ericcson, frazen, Brad Stuart.


All teams with a good amount of grit.

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12-02-2013, 02:51 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
So just because someone has a different philosophy on building a hockey team than you do, they're dumb. Guess that makes you the smartest hockey mind in the world. Wonder why you're not a GM?
exactly. can't be worse than Sather.

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12-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
let's see...the 1997 team had shanny, maltby, Lapointe, Darren McCarthy, Konstantinov

1998,same lineup with Kocur

2002, Shanny, malbty McCarthy, Uwe Krupp

2008, Dan Cleary, Aaron Downey, Jonathan Ericcson, frazen, Brad Stuart.


All teams with a good amount of grit.
Could you explain what makes Jonathan Ericsson count, but not Brian Boyle? Brad Stuart but not Dan Girardi? etc etc.

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12-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
exactly. can't be worse than Sather.
Though you would've traded Hagelin for Kassian...

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12-02-2013, 03:12 PM
  #833
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Though you would've traded Hagelin for Kassian...
I would still do that deal....

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12-02-2013, 03:13 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Could you explain what makes Jonathan Ericsson count, but not Brian Boyle? Brad Stuart but not Dan Girardi? etc etc.
I'm not sure I would've included Ericsson in the list that the other poster provided but either way, the difference in how Boyle, and to a lesser extent Girardi, is characterized is based on the holistic view of the entire roster. I am quite sure that Boyle would be viewed entirely different if he played alongside tougher players that allowed him to fill the role(s) best suited to his skill-set. Of course my assertion was proven to have been correct in 2011 when Boyle delivered a career year while playing in a lineup featuring a number of players that we would consider tough.

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12-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by NGgator60 View Post
I'm not sure I would've included Ericsson in the list that the other poster provided but either way, the difference in how Boyle, and to a lesser extent Girardi, is characterized is based on the holistic view of the entire roster. I am quite sure that Boyle would be viewed entirely different if he played alongside tougher players that allowed him to fill the role(s) best suited to his skill-set. Of course my assertion was proven to have been correct in 2011 when Boyle delivered a career year while playing in a lineup featuring a number of players that we would consider tough.
Sheesh - the amount of correlations that have very little basis in fact are flying around in this thread, as they often do when it comes to a debate on tough guys.

The best argument is "They beat people up and make me feel "

The deterrent argument is jumping head first into a rabbit hole.

But the other stuff, like how goons are directly responsible for career offensive years from Jaromir Jagr to Brian Boyle is pretty much fiction.

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12-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Could you explain what makes Jonathan Ericsson count, but not Brian Boyle? Brad Stuart but not Dan Girardi? etc etc.
if your happy with the way this team is currently built...that's your choice.

I would like to add more grit in the way of Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Ryan Reeves, etc.

Jonathan Ericcson knows how to defend himself...Boyle and I like the guy...doesn't scare Nathan Gerbe and that's fine...it's not his role and he is not good at it.

Brad Stuart again is a guy that can handle himself well...Girardi, again does not want to engage in that stuff...not knocking either guy...just a need that we don't currently have...again, this is not that difficult to understand.

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12-02-2013, 03:21 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
if your happy with the way this team is currently built...that's your choice.

I would like to add more grit in the way of Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Ryan Reeves, etc.

Jonathan Ericcson knows how to defend himself...Boyle and I like the guy...doesn't scare Nathan Gerbe and that's fine...it's not his role and he is not good at it.

Brad Stuart again is a guy that can handle himself well...Girardi, again does not want to engage in that stuff...not knocking either guy...just a need that we don't currently have...again, this is not that difficult to understand.
When confronted with facts, your go-to argument is that everyone else is happy with a soft team that can't score goals and you're the only one who sees the light.

Theres a very small amount of people happy with how this team is built. My problem with you is that your priorities are all ****ed up.

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Old
12-02-2013, 03:22 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Sheesh - the amount of correlations that have very little basis in fact are flying around in this thread, as they often do when it comes to a debate on tough guys.

The best argument is "They beat people up and make me feel "

The deterrent argument is jumping head first into a rabbit hole.

But the other stuff, like how goons are directly responsible for career offensive years from Jaromir Jagr to Brian Boyle is pretty much fiction.
it's fiction for you...

Artem Anisomov was a timid player in 09-10, they put him on the 4th line with Shelley and Prust and he was flying around.

Have you ever played sports?

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12-02-2013, 03:24 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
it's fiction for you...

Artem Anisomov was a timid player in 09-10, they put him on the 4th line with Shelley and Prust and he was flying around.

Have you ever played sports?
3 years of varsity hockey on Long Island. I actually played against Mike Komisarek and Rob Scuderi.

I never once felt safer on the ice when we dressed a big dumb idiot that couldnt skate.

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12-02-2013, 03:26 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I would still do that deal....
The Kassian that's been playing on the fourth line. The Kassian that couldn't even score with the Sedins spoonfeeding him sure goals? That Kassian?

Sheesh.

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12-02-2013, 03:27 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
3 years of varsity hockey on Long Island. I actually played against Mike Komisarek and Rob Scuderi.

I never once felt safer on the ice when we dressed a big dumb idiot that couldnt skate.
That's really cool. I've always wondered - were they far and away more talented than anyone on either team when you played them?

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12-02-2013, 03:31 PM
  #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
if your happy with the way this team is currently built...that's your choice.

I would like to add more grit in the way of Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Ryan Reeves, etc.

Jonathan Ericcson knows how to defend himself...Boyle and I like the guy...doesn't scare Nathan Gerbe and that's fine...it's not his role and he is not good at it.

Brad Stuart again is a guy that can handle himself well...Girardi, again does not want to engage in that stuff...not knocking either guy...just a need that we don't currently have...again, this is not that difficult to understand.
Ericsson has had three fights in his last two seasons.

Brad Stuart has four fights since 2008. In three of them, the other player received an instigator penalty. He turned down Brian Boyle earlier this season.

If you were a Detroit fan in 2008-09, I'm sure you would have been peddling the same garbage you are here.

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Old
12-02-2013, 03:32 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
That's really cool. I've always wondered - were they far and away more talented than anyone on either team when you played them?
Its funny because, even though he was drafted higher, Komisarek was playing at the time with a Smithtown team that wasn't really talented so he didn't particularly stick out besides the fact he was very physical (to go with this thread, no, I wasn't intimidated and felt like I needed protection).

Scuderi played for St. Anthony's who used to win the league pretty much every season. Buncha prep school kids vs. my public school team of misfits. He was amazing to watch back then.

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Old
12-02-2013, 03:33 PM
  #844
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I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading the likes of Pyatt with someone who can bring it once in a while.

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Old
12-02-2013, 03:38 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
The Kassian that's been playing on the fourth line. The Kassian that couldn't even score with the Sedins spoonfeeding him sure goals? That Kassian?

Sheesh.
what line is Hagelin currently playing on?

he has 5 goals...how many goals does your Carl Forsberg Alferdson have?

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12-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #846
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I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading the likes of Pyatt with someone who can bring it once in a while.
no, lets keep him, the other stiff Pouli**** and Del Zotto...

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12-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
what line is Hagelin currently playing on?

he has 5 goals...how many goals does your Carl Forsberg Alferdson have?

You would trade Hagelin for Kassian?

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Old
12-02-2013, 03:40 PM
  #848
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You would trade Hagelin for Kassian?
He would...

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Old
12-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
what line is Hagelin currently playing on?

he has 5 goals...how many goals does your Carl Forsberg Alferdson have?
Kassian has 6 points.

Hagelin has 11. And they have the same number of goals.

Hagelin: .57 career PPG
Kassian: .25 career PPG

Yeah, big tough Eric Kassian Lindros is so much better.

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12-02-2013, 03:42 PM
  #850
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
You would trade Hagelin for Kassian?
I like Hagelin but it is not so lopsided has some suggest. I don't not view Hagelin as the issue but he is very inconsistent.

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